Butcher isn't the problem. Neither is Petrie.

[Gus Fring]

Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

[dmc1875]

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

Its a tough one. There is no doubt that Fenlons time was up. Is the team he assembled, playing the way he was playing good enough? No

Should they be in the mess they are now? No.

The jurys out whether or not fenlons team would be in the same position but we have to remember fenlon and butchers philosophies and the way they set their teams out are very very different. The squad is not suited to the way Butcher plays. Should he have tried to adapt a bit? Probably.

Interesting article back in Jan analysing Hibs' form after we went on a wee run under Butcher. They seemed to suggest that Hibs go through phases and it wasn't so much a new managerial bounce, more that the tide just turned as it had several times before.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...-at-hibernian/

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

I agree with you. I also think the comedy at the PBS has been part of the problem in leading to everyone taking their eye off the ball.

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

[Ricky Bobby]

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

Agree with this. The current playing squad, other than a few promising youngsters is patently not good enough. in my opinion we have have not had a manager with a proper signing strategy since McLeish.

[Gus Fring]

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Agree with this. The current playing squad, other than a few promising youngsters is patently not good enough. in my opinion we have have not had a manager with a proper signing strategy since McLeish.

I think Butcher will have a signing strategy come the summer. He's got his own dedicated scout and he himself has been spotted at several games keeping an eye on talent. I don't recall this happening with many of the last few managers (could just be reported less of course).

[TornadoHibby]

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I think Butcher will have a signing strategy come the summer. He's got his own dedicated scout and he himself has been spotted at several games keeping an eye on talent. I don't recall this happening with many of the last few managers (could just be reported less of course).

Would that be the scout who doubles up as GJK coach who was standing belethering at the back of the West Stad around 12.10pm today when he should have been on th epitch warming up Williams and the other keepers!?

[HFC 0-7]

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

I think butcher is the right man but completely disagree with Petrie. He had invested in everything but th team. When you have to re build you need more than just your normal player budget. Selling the top talent and not re investing on the squad is where it's all gone wrong. IMO, Petrie hedged his bets that there would be a steady stream of young talent coming through. It didn't. The blame for the string of failed managers has to fall at the feet of Petrie. The cost of paying off staff deemed not good enough makes it harder for profability and the only way to remain in the black if the income is decreasing because the product is rank is to cut costs. I think butcher is the man, but having a success rate in managers of about 1 in 5 isn't good enough. If butcher is the man then the reality is that he will only be with us for a couple of season before a bigger club comes in and he is off.

To keep progressing we need a chairman that can hire the correct manager each time or we will forever be in the cycle of 1 or 2 good seasons followed by 6 or 7 bad ones.

[Ozyhibby]

Petrie is the head of an organisation that is failing badly. He is responsible.
The 'deputy heads must roll' attitude at Hibs has to stop. Petrie is in control of everything at Hibs and the club is sinking. There has to be proper accountability.

[Gus Fring]

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Would that be the scout who doubles up as GJK coach who was standing belethering at the back of the West Stad around 12.10pm today when he should have been on th epitch warming up Williams and the other keepers!?

I recall seeing him doing the warm up with the goalies at one point. I sit in the FF so wouldn't be able to see if he went into the west at any point. I don't think not being present for a full warmup has any bearing on how good a scout he is though.

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I think butcher is the right man but completely disagree with Petrie. He had invested in everything but th team. When you have to re build you need more than just your normal player budget. Selling the top talent and not re investing on the squad is where it's all gone wrong. IMO, Petrie hedged his bets that there would be a steady stream of young talent coming through. It didn't. The blame for the string of failed managers has to fall at the feet of Petrie. The cost of paying off staff deemed not good enough makes it harder for profability and the only way to remain in the black if the income is decreasing because the product is rank is to cut costs. I think butcher is the man, but having a success rate in managers of about 1 in 5 isn't good enough. If butcher is the man then the reality is that he will only be with us for a couple of season before a bigger club comes in and he is off.

To keep progressing we need a chairman that can hire the correct manager each time or we will forever be in the cycle of 1 or 2 good seasons followed by 6 or 7 bad ones.

IIRC Petrie wasn't involved in appointing Fenlon and since he quit there wasn't any compensation due either, which is what allowed us to pay compensation to ICT for Butcher, Malpas and Marsella.

We haven't sold a player for any significant value for a few seasons and if it wasn't reinvested in the squad, where did it go? I've just named 3 prospective players that could go on to net us some decent money in Harris, Cummings and Stanton. But do we try and keep those players< taking money out of the wage pot for new players, or do we sell them and hope the replacement is as good or better?

Where is all this money coming from? The bank won't lend it to us, we haven't sold any players and fans aren't turning up.

Are you able to name me a Scottish Premiership side that has a chairman that's been able to consistently appoint good managers?

[The Green Goblin]

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I recall seeing him doing the warm up with the goalies at one point. I sit in the FF so wouldn't be able to see if he went into the west at any point. I don't think not being present for a full warmup has any bearing on how good a scout he is though.



IIRC Petrie wasn't involved in appointing Fenlon and since he quit there wasn't any compensation due either, which is what allowed us to pay compensation to ICT for Butcher, Malpas and Marsella.

We haven't sold a player for any significant value for a few seasons and if it wasn't reinvested in the squad, where did it go? I've just named 3 prospective players that could go on to net us some decent money in Harris, Cummings and Stanton. But do we try and keep those players< taking money out of the wage pot for new players, or do we sell them and hope the replacement is as good or better?

Where is all this money coming from? The bank won't lend it to us, we haven't sold any players and fans aren't turning up.

Are you able to name me a Scottish Premiership side that has a chairman that's been able to consistently appoint good managers?

St. Johnstone seem to manage it.

[Scooter]

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I recall seeing him doing the warm up with the goalies at one point. I sit in the FF so wouldn't be able to see if he went into the west at any point. I don't think not being present for a full warmup has any bearing on how good a scout he is though.



IIRC Petrie wasn't involved in appointing Fenlon and since he quit there wasn't any compensation due either, which is what allowed us to pay compensation to ICT for Butcher, Malpas and Marsella.

We haven't sold a player for any significant value for a few seasons and if it wasn't reinvested in the squad, where did it go? I've just named 3 prospective players that could go on to net us some decent money in Harris, Cummings and Stanton. But do we try and keep those players< taking money out of the wage pot for new players, or do we sell them and hope the replacement is as good or better?

Where is all this money coming from? The bank won't lend it to us, we haven't sold any players and fans aren't turning up.

Are you able to name me a Scottish Premiership side that has a chairman that's been able to consistently appoint good managers?

Does anyone actually believe that. Butcher can't order football's for training without Petrie signing off on it

[Peevemor]

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

Spot on.

[Patatango]

Petrie's the man in overall charge of the club and, for about the last 5-6 years has overseen a continual slide in the clubs fortune over that time. If he's not to blame for our present predicament, who is?
No doubt he's done a good job on the business side of things but the footballing side is and has been totally rank.

[Northernhibee]

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Reading the forum the last few days we should get rid of our owner, chairman, manager, most of the players, the backroom staff and the training centre.

The way I see it Fenlon built a team that was rubbish. Vine, Collins, Craig, Nelson, none of them are good enough. They got beat 9-0 off Malmo and Hearts beat them twice. Pat walked because "he had taken the team as far as it can go". I'm off the opinion now that this wasn't double-speak but was actually true! This is similar to the Moyes-Man U situation. Fenlon, and Sir Alex seen what was coming and decided to let someone else clear up the mess.

Our best players today and in most other games are ones who were here already, Cummings, Stanton, Harris, Stevenson, Hanlon.

I think TB needs time. He was left with a poor team and in his first several games actually managed to get decent performances out of them but since the New Year Derby the team has slipped back into it's pre-butcher ways. Butcher has proven that, given time, he is able to take a poor side and turn them into a squad that can compete at the top end of the top tier. ICT are proof of that. They've been rubbish since Butcher left (They got beat 6-0 today)

He needs to build a team that plays the way he wants to play, he needs a pre-season under his belt and he needs a summer transfer window to rebuild. I worry that because the fans are choosing to stay away he won't have as much to spend as Pat did but if he can do it at ICT on their budget I'm sure he can do it here.

As for Petrie, asking for his head on a plate is just crazy. He's in charge of making sure the club is run correctly, profitably and for the most part he is doing that. When you look at other clubs like Hearts and Rangers, they haven't been run correctly and are now suffering (Rangers still aren't run correctly because the fans are used to winning) Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock all have cut deals to reduce their debt with the bank, we have not been that lucky so we need to do it the old fashioned way, by living within our means and paying our debts.

We can't have it both ways, we can spend big and risk going bust or we can plan for the future. There isn't a team in Scotland (apart from Celtic) who is consistently successful whilst also being sound financially.

It is Petrie's fault how we ended up with the players you've mentioned coming to us though

[Gus Fring]

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St. Johnstone seem to manage it.

I asked for a chairman, not a club. St Johnstone's current chairman has only appointed one manager. Their previous Chairman appointed Owen Coyle who wasn't a great appointment for them, he didn't really achieve much. Derek Mcinnes was better though, he got them promoted.

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Does anyone actually believe that. Butcher can't order football's for training without Petrie signing off on it

That's what was publicly stated at the time. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

[Jack Hackett]

Maybe it's time we had a 'Director of Football' at the club. Someone who actually knows more about football than spreadsheets. Someone who could look knowledgeably at proposed signings by the manager and make judgement calls on what he could do for the team rather than the balance sheet. Someone who cares about how the fans want to see their team play. Someone with a passion for the game.

Someone like Pat Nevin

[Scooter]

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I asked for a chairman, not a club. St Johnstone's current chairman has only appointed one manager. Their previous Chairman appointed Owen Coyle who wasn't a great appointment for them, he didn't really achieve much. Derek Mcinnes was better though, he got them promoted.



That's what was publicly stated at the time. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I had friends and family that worked with in the club at the time it was well know in the club that Petrie was involved they only said that to keep us quite.

[Gus Fring]

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Maybe it's time we had a 'Director of Football' at the club. Someone who actually knows more about football than spreadsheets. Someone who could look knowledgeably at proposed signings by the manager and make judgement calls on what he could do for the team rather than the balance sheet. Someone who cares about how the fans want to see their team play. Someone with a passion for the game.

Someone like Pat Nevin

I'd go for John Collins myself.

[Gus Fring]

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I had friends and family that worked with in the club at the time it was well know in the club that Petrie was involved they only said that to keep us quite.

Friends and family? The club doesn't have a high turnover of non-playing staff so I assume they are still working there? Can you explain how it is that they all knew about it? Surely Rod would do a better job of keeping it quiet given it could land him and the club in a lot of hot water given the chairman publicly lied to shareholders?

[jeffers]

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I recall seeing him doing the warm up with the goalies at one point. I sit in the FF so wouldn't be able to see if he went into the west at any point. I don't think not being present for a full warmup has any bearing on how good a scout he is though.



IIRC Petrie wasn't involved in appointing Fenlon and since he quit there wasn't any compensation due either, which is what allowed us to pay compensation to ICT for Butcher, Malpas and Marsella.

We haven't sold a player for any significant value for a few seasons and if it wasn't reinvested in the squad, where did it go? I've just named 3 prospective players that could go on to net us some decent money in Harris, Cummings and Stanton. But do we try and keep those players< taking money out of the wage pot for new players, or do we sell them and hope the replacement is as good or better?

Where is all this money coming from? The bank won't lend it to us, we haven't sold any players and fans aren't turning up.

Are you able to name me a Scottish Premiership side that has a chairman that's been able to consistently appoint good managers?

Bit in bold, I posted this the other day, while PF did offer his resignation he still received a pay off......

[Jack Hackett]

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I'd go for John Collins myself.

I'd go for him, but it will never happen while Petrie is at the club...imo

[Northernhibee]

If the problem isn't Petrie, why was our main signing (Collins) about the 5th or 6th choice of Fenlon? Why did we fail to land a number of players this season such as McManus, Rooney, Flood, Taylor, Griffiths, Wylde etc?

[Gus Fring]

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Bit in bold, I posted this the other day, while PF did offer his resignation he still received a pay off......

If true it shows Petrie isn't as tight as it seems then. He paid compensation to the old manager and then paid again for the one he wanted. He could have just picked the best candidate that needed no compensation if all he was worried about was money.

[Scouse Hibee]

Butcher has shown us nothing, it's his job as manager to get the best out of what he has available to him, he hasn't managed to do anything absolute nothing. Fenlon had these same players performing better than Butcher ever has, simply not good enough from Butcher and far too easy to look back and lay the blame at Fenlon's door.

[jeffers]

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If true it shows Petrie isn't as tight as it seems then. He paid compensation to the old manager and then paid again for the one he wanted. He could have just picked the best candidate that needed no compensation if all he was worried about was money.

Not sure what to make of it Bajillions. From what I've heard Petrie liked Fenlon and didn't want him to quit. Maybe the fact he paid him off was to stop him talking, maybe I'm just being cynical tho. I do wonder where the money to pay off PF and compensation for the new management team comes from. Maybe that's money that would otherwise be going to the playing budget, so Petrie may well be as tight as depicted he's just choosing to spend what money we have on compensation rather than on players.....

[Gus Fring]

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If the problem isn't Petrie, why was our main signing (Collins) about the 5th or 6th choice of Fenlon? Why did we fail to land a number of players this season such as McManus, Rooney, Flood, Taylor, Griffiths, Wylde etc?

That's a very easy question to answer. Petrie can't spend money the club hasn't got. Nobody is answering the question of where it's supposed to come from? If these players are targets and other clubs are able to offer them more money, then they are going to go there instead.

These players didn't come to us for the same reason I don't have a mansion and a Ferrari, because we simply can't afford it.

[jeffers]

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That's a very easy question to answer. Petrie can't spend money the club hasn't got. Nobody is answering the question of where it's supposed to come from? If these players are targets and other clubs are able to offer them more money, then they are going to go there instead.

These players didn't come to us for the same reason I don't have a mansion and a Ferrari, because we simply can't afford it.

He's certainly culpable re Lyle Taylor. LG aside, Taylor was one of PF's main targets and he'd be interested in him as far back as last January's transfer window. As far as I know he was keen to come to Hibs, but RP made Falkirk more than one offer they deemed insulting. In the end we signed Collins for a sum a little less than we could have got Taylor for......

[Gus Fring]

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Butcher has shown us nothing, it's his job as manager to get the best out of what he has available to him, he hasn't managed to do anything absolute nothing. Fenlon had these same players performing better than Butcher ever has, simply not good enough from Butcher and far too easy to look back and lay the blame at Fenlon's door.

We've been beaten by Hearts 4 times this season. 2 of them Fenlon, 2 of them Butcher.

Pat Fenlon oversaw this team of players get a 9-0 aggregate defeat to Malmo over 2 games.

It took Terry Butcher 11 matches 2 concede the same number of goals with the same players.

It was widely considered that Terry Butcher got off to a fantastic start only losing 2 of his first 10 matches and one of them was a very close 1-0 loss away to Celtic.

[Gus Fring]

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He's certainly culpable re Lyle Taylor. LG aside, Taylor was one of PF's main targets and he'd be interested in him as far back as last January's transfer window. As far as I know he was keen to come to Hibs, but RP made Falkirk more than one offer they deemed insulting. In the end we signed Collins for a sum a little less than we could have got Taylor for......

I'm not saying Petrie isn't making the decisions, I'm repeatedly asking where all this extra money is supposed to be coming from? If you only have £200k to spend on a player, you can only spend £200k on a player. It doesn't matter if the player we bought cost "a little less" than the one we were after because we never had the money to buy that player in the first place.

Heres an example: If you go into a shop with £5, you can only spend £5. Now you are more than entitled to chance your arm and ask for something that costs £7 and see if they'll sell you it for £5 but they are entitled to feel insulted at the offer as well. When they do, you go elsewhere and see if you can buy a similar product for £5.

[Northernhibee]

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That's a very easy question to answer. Petrie can't spend money the club hasn't got. Nobody is answering the question of where it's supposed to come from? If these players are targets and other clubs are able to offer them more money, then they are going to go there instead.

These players didn't come to us for the same reason I don't have a mansion and a Ferrari, because we simply can't afford it.

Simple. Get in five, six, seven seasoned pros and offer the extra £200-300 a week that Petrie haggles on every single time and let them be role models for the youngsters. We make more money from the sale of talented youngsters so can get more decent experienced players in and the cycle continues. It's what other teams have done very well for years.

We get in past it journeymen because we miss out on key targets, the young players don't learn much from them, we release them, and the downward spiral continues.

It'll take an initial burst of investment otherwise that cycle will continue and we'll drop further and further with fewer and fewer supporters watching worse and worse football.