My problem with Butcher & Malpas [a grievance from the 'yes' camp]

[TheFamous1875]

I appreciate a football manager whom likes to instil his own brand of football and philosophies. I like there to be a continuity from a management team - something that the club can buy into and the players can sink their teeth into.

However, this brand of direct, 'punt it up the park' football, which misses out our midfield and gives Michael Nelson licence to play the ball to another player to the Easter Road faithful's dismay is the wrong way to go about it.

I think when you arrive at a new club, the objective should not be to try and attune someone else's squad to your styles and ideas, especially when they're not a very good team and have little sense of footballing identity. I think it's a recipe for disaster to get players to play a style of football that's in opposition to their capabilities.

Look at our best players. Kevin Thomson, Sam Stanton, Paul Hanlon, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Lewis Stevenson, Alex Harris. We're playing direct football, completely by-passing our midfield every match. Butcher may not like it, but our best players (on paper) are in the midfield. They're all ball players. Kevin Thomson hasn't featured because he doesn't suit Butcher and Malpas' football. Until they can build their own team, they should be persevering with the little advantages they have (allegedly). Thomson's composure, Stanton's play making, skill and drive, Craig's goal scoring ability. Heffernan's goal scoring ability. Stevenson's tenacity and reliability. Harris' flair, pace and crossing ability.

These attributes may not be what Butcher et al are looking for, but it's damn sure what they've been dealt for the time being.

Play your team to their strengths! They're stifled, or just plain uninvolved in this current system.

Hibs could be doing so much better, even in these tired times. We're all (the management incl.) patiently waiting for this season to roll over and die, but we're still in it for now.

Wise up, management. Bite the bullet you so assuringly signed up to chew and play your adopted players to their strengths.

[Elephant Stone]

Great post, agree entirely.

[GreenCastle]

Good post.

Even the average fan can see we aren't playing to our capabilities.

If the yams were that great and winning every week it would be easier to take but we beat ourselves again today.

TB needs to stop changing the team and get players performing more consistently.

If we were trying to play good football and were beaten again easier but hoofball and losing is just painful.

[superbam]

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I appreciate a football manager whom likes to instil his own brand of football and philosophies. I like there to be a continuity from a management team - something that the club can buy into and the players can sink their teeth into.

However, this brand of direct, 'punt it up the park' football, which misses out our midfield and gives Michael Nelson licence to play the ball to another player to the Easter Road faithful's dismay is the wrong way to go about it.

I think when you arrive at a new club, the objective should not be to try and attune someone else's squad to your styles and ideas, especially when they're not a very good team and have little sense of footballing identity. I think it's a recipe for disaster to get players to play a style of football that's in opposition to their capabilities.

Look at our best players. Kevin Thomson, Sam Stanton, Paul Hanlon, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Lewis Stevenson, Alex Harris. We're playing direct football, completely by-passing our midfield every match. Butcher may not like it, but our best players (on paper) are in the midfield. They're all ball players. Kevin Thomson hasn't featured because he doesn't suit Butcher and Malpas' football. Until they can build their own team, they should be persevering with the little advantages they have (allegedly). Thomson's composure, Stanton's play making, skill and drive, Craig's goal scoring ability. Heffernan's goal scoring ability. Stevenson's tenacity and reliability. Harris' flair, pace and crossing ability.

These attributes may not be what Butcher et al are looking for, but it's damn sure what they've been dealt for the time being.

Play your team to their strengths! They're stifled, or just plain uninvolved in this current system.

Hibs could be doing so much better, even in these tired times. We're all (the management incl.) patiently waiting for this season to roll over and die, but we're still in it for now.

Wise up, management. Bite the bullet you so assuringly signed up to chew and play your adopted players to their strengths.

Indeed. One of the puzzling aspects of Fenlon's tenure was packing the squad with players that didn't suit his style of football, if you could even call it that. Butcher now seems set on gutting the squad and redesign around his own parrticular brand of hammer throwing. He won't have the funds to reconstruct, he will be gone by November, cue another period of "transition".

I didn't expect wonders from Butcher and Malpas, but I bought into their chat about strengthening the belief and mentality among the players and I expected this in the short term, if not radically different results. They spoke as if the squad was psychologically wounded and they were the healers. They have somehow managed to foster an even more disjointed, unmotivated, unfit and cowardly group of players than we had under Fenlon, which takes some doing.

[Mikey09]

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Indeed. One of the puzzling aspects of Fenlon's tenure was packing the squad with players that didn't suit his style of football, if you could even call it that. Butcher now seems set on gutting the squad and redesign around his own parrticular brand of hammer throwing. He won't have the funds to reconstruct, he will be gone by November, cue another period of "transition".

I didn't expect wonders from Butcher and Malpas, but I bought into their chat about strengthening the belief and mentality among the players and I expected this in the short term, if not radically different results. They spoke as if the squad was psychologically wounded and they were the healers. They have somehow managed to foster an even more disjointed, unmotivated, unfit and cowardly group of players than we had under Fenlon, which takes some doing.

I will ill put a charity bet on with you superbam that our manager won't be gone by November.....

[stevejordan]

i have a mate whos son is on trial and training with us at the moment in the under 17s he was speaking to the coaches who told him the reason KT Was not in his plans is because he passes the ball back words or sideways.

Terry likes to attack and go forward at all times and he dislikes negative players

[Geo_1875]

What I can't understand is how 2 hugely experienced international defenders can't organise a defence to do the basics.

[teamholm]

Agree completely with this. Poor team selection, poor tactics and I was left mystified by the subs. We knew their team, we knew what their tactics would be and we looked like we did not know what to do from the start. I have to say I thought the players gave a lot today, I did not see players who had given up on the pitch. What I did see was a marked improvement when Thomson came on. I was not there but by all accounts he played well last week, so begs the question why not from the start. May bury was an accident waiting to happen. He is slow and costs a goal every game. Once he was on a booking it was inevitable.

Normally i I advocate time and patience. The problem I have with this is giving calderwood time put us back a year, giving Fenton time put us back 6 months. We acted swiftly with Sauzee. I thought the big selling point with Butcher was he would turn things round quickly.

i am a season ticket holder who has renewed. I could not give a toss about hearts and will not miss the derby. What I want is a team that plays decent football.

[Carheenlea]

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i have a mate whos son is on trial and training with us at the moment in the under 17s he was speaking to the coaches who told him the reason KT Was not in his plans is because he passes the ball back words or sideways.

Terry likes to attack and go forward at all times and he dislikes negative players

I look forward to eventually seeing this then sometime soon. 23 games so far and we are still waiting....

[HibernianJK]

good post. I believe it is a myth that 'hibs are a terrible team with terrible players' and it is being assumed because of the style of football that we are being asked to play. Heffernan, Thomson, Stanton, Harris, Hanlon are all good footballers but their abilities are being well and truly undermined by the way TB has asked this team to play.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I appreciate a football manager whom likes to instil his own brand of football and philosophies. I like there to be a continuity from a management team - something that the club can buy into and the players can sink their teeth into.

However, this brand of direct, 'punt it up the park' football, which misses out our midfield and gives Michael Nelson licence to play the ball to another player to the Easter Road faithful's dismay is the wrong way to go about it.

I think when you arrive at a new club, the objective should not be to try and attune someone else's squad to your styles and ideas, especially when they're not a very good team and have little sense of footballing identity. I think it's a recipe for disaster to get players to play a style of football that's in opposition to their capabilities.

Look at our best players. Kevin Thomson, Sam Stanton, Paul Hanlon, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Lewis Stevenson, Alex Harris. We're playing direct football, completely by-passing our midfield every match. Butcher may not like it, but our best players (on paper) are in the midfield. They're all ball players. Kevin Thomson hasn't featured because he doesn't suit Butcher and Malpas' football. Until they can build their own team, they should be persevering with the little advantages they have (allegedly). Thomson's composure, Stanton's play making, skill and drive, Craig's goal scoring ability. Heffernan's goal scoring ability. Stevenson's tenacity and reliability. Harris' flair, pace and crossing ability.

These attributes may not be what Butcher et al are looking for, but it's damn sure what they've been dealt for the time being.

Play your team to their strengths! They're stifled, or just plain uninvolved in this current system.

Hibs could be doing so much better, even in these tired times. We're all (the management incl.) patiently waiting for this season to roll over and die, but we're still in it for now.

Wise up, management. Bite the bullet you so assuringly signed up to chew and play your adopted players to their strengths.

They seem to be a bit lost, at the moment. They have to play the best players, and give them the chance to work it out. There seems to be little consistency in team selection. It's like they are on an extended per seasons, viewing the matches as opportunities to try things out.

[Ronniekirk]

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They seem to be a bit lost, at the moment. They have to play the best players, and give them the chance to work it out. There seems to be little consistency in team selection. It's like they are on an extended per seasons, viewing the matches as opportunities to try things out.

Don't know about pre season but we are on extended beaten run at exactly the wrong time giving other teams hope .But agree he can't now chop and change He needs to settle on a team for Aberdeen game and stick with it or he will run out of games to experiment in .Or maybe not if we are in the Playoffs Rod was one of the a Architects of this and I remember saying to my son at the time that we were capable of getting sucked into them but that was when it was Fenlon was in Charge .Little. did I think that after changing the Manager we would still be in contention .

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Don't know about pre season but we are on extended beaten run at exactly the wrong time giving other teams hope .But agree he can't now chop and change He needs to settle on a team for Aberdeen game and stick with it or he will run out of games to experiment in .Or maybe not if we are in the Playoffs Rod was one of the a Architects of this and I remember saying to my son at the time that we were capable of getting sucked into them but that was when it was Fenlon was in Charge .Little. did I think that after changing the Manager we would still be in contention .

We were miles away from it when Fenlon was sacked. I think, at that time, we thought we should have been higher in the League. Management need to get a grip now, we've got the players to get the points.

[Pretty Boy]

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I appreciate a football manager whom likes to instil his own brand of football and philosophies. I like there to be a continuity from a management team - something that the club can buy into and the players can sink their teeth into.

However, this brand of direct, 'punt it up the park' football, which misses out our midfield and gives Michael Nelson licence to play the ball to another player to the Easter Road faithful's dismay is the wrong way to go about it.

I think when you arrive at a new club, the objective should not be to try and attune someone else's squad to your styles and ideas, especially when they're not a very good team and have little sense of footballing identity. I think it's a recipe for disaster to get players to play a style of football that's in opposition to their capabilities.

Look at our best players. Kevin Thomson, Sam Stanton, Paul Hanlon, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Lewis Stevenson, Alex Harris. We're playing direct football, completely by-passing our midfield every match. Butcher may not like it, but our best players (on paper) are in the midfield. They're all ball players. Kevin Thomson hasn't featured because he doesn't suit Butcher and Malpas' football. Until they can build their own team, they should be persevering with the little advantages they have (allegedly). Thomson's composure, Stanton's play making, skill and drive, Craig's goal scoring ability. Heffernan's goal scoring ability. Stevenson's tenacity and reliability. Harris' flair, pace and crossing ability.

These attributes may not be what Butcher et al are looking for, but it's damn sure what they've been dealt for the time being.

Play your team to their strengths! They're stifled, or just plain uninvolved in this current system.

Hibs could be doing so much better, even in these tired times. We're all (the management incl.) patiently waiting for this season to roll over and die, but we're still in it for now.

Wise up, management. Bite the bullet you so assuringly signed up to chew and play your adopted players to their strengths.

Very good post.

[monktonharp]

the OP was spot on. the players he mentions, are the ones you'd expect to see every time barring injury.

[HKhibby]

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i have a mate whos son is on trial and training with us at the moment in the under 17s he was speaking to the coaches who told him the reason KT Was not in his plans is because he passes the ball back words or sideways.

Terry likes to attack and go forward at all times and he dislikes negative players

Indeed that is the kind of player Terry Butcher was even though he was a defender he would move forward

[Saturdays Hero]

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I appreciate a football manager whom likes to instil his own brand of football and philosophies. I like there to be a continuity from a management team - something that the club can buy into and the players can sink their teeth into.

However, this brand of direct, 'punt it up the park' football, which misses out our midfield and gives Michael Nelson licence to play the ball to another player to the Easter Road faithful's dismay is the wrong way to go about it.

I think when you arrive at a new club, the objective should not be to try and attune someone else's squad to your styles and ideas, especially when they're not a very good team and have little sense of footballing identity. I think it's a recipe for disaster to get players to play a style of football that's in opposition to their capabilities.

Look at our best players. Kevin Thomson, Sam Stanton, Paul Hanlon, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Lewis Stevenson, Alex Harris. We're playing direct football, completely by-passing our midfield every match. Butcher may not like it, but our best players (on paper) are in the midfield. They're all ball players. Kevin Thomson hasn't featured because he doesn't suit Butcher and Malpas' football. Until they can build their own team, they should be persevering with the little advantages they have (allegedly). Thomson's composure, Stanton's play making, skill and drive, Craig's goal scoring ability. Heffernan's goal scoring ability. Stevenson's tenacity and reliability. Harris' flair, pace and crossing ability.

These attributes may not be what Butcher et al are looking for, but it's damn sure what they've been dealt for the time being.

Play your team to their strengths! They're stifled, or just plain uninvolved in this current system.

Hibs could be doing so much better, even in these tired times. We're all (the management incl.) patiently waiting for this season to roll over and die, but we're still in it for now.

Wise up, management. Bite the bullet you so assuringly signed up to chew and play your adopted players to their strengths.

The majority of the players mentioned have played together & still couldn't put in a performance ie bar KT they all played against Raith a team who hadn't scored in 5 and turn up at ER and score 3 & tbh I've never known Inverness to not be known for not playing football on the deck,when they played us the weekend TB left them they left us chasing shadows for 90 mins without being spectacular,all these thoughts are great in hindsight but they've been tried & tried again & when we try again the outcome will still be the same 0-7 Malmo,3 losses to Hearts,3-1 up against Stranraer and they get back to 3-3 the rot had long started before Butcher arrived.....you could play fantasy football all day with that squad and your still gonna get nowhere they just aren't good enough,Stanton the exception but I've seen nothing from any of them all season that would make me believe they have any (alleged) strengths as you say,would be delighted to be proved wrong though !

[hfcok]

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the OP was spot on. the players he mentions, are the ones you'd expect to see every time barring injury.

Didnt think we would miss Robertson,but we do, he also compliments Craig hes went downhill since his injury

[crash]

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The majority of the players mentioned have played together & still couldn't put in a performance ie bar KT they all played against Raith a team who hadn't scored in 5 and turn up at ER and score 3 & tbh I've never known Inverness to not be known for not playing football on the deck,when they played us the weekend TB left them they left us chasing shadows for 90 mins without being spectacular,all these thoughts are great in hindsight but they've been tried & tried again & when we try again the outcome will still be the same 0-7 Malmo,3 losses to Hearts,3-1 up against Stranraer and they get back to 3-3 the rot had long started before Butcher arrived.....you could play fantasy football all day with that squad and your still gonna get nowhere they just aren't good enough,Stanton the exception but I've seen nothing from any of them all season that would make me believe they have any (alleged) strengths as you say,would be delighted to be proved wrong though !

Agree. Stanton would be the only player from the current bunch who I would keep in the team.The league table doesn't lie, bottom 6 players result in a bottom 6 side.

[Steven_Hibs]

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i have a mate whos son is on trial and training with us at the moment in the under 17s he was speaking to the coaches who told him the reason KT Was not in his plans is because he passes the ball back words or sideways.

Terry likes to attack and go forward at all times and he dislikes negative players

Negative players!? So a player who keeps the ball, passes the ball and generally does most things the current crop can't do is labelled a negative player. What on earth is TB playing at

[bobbyhibs1983]

[QUOTE=GreenStar;3949616]Good post.

If the yams were that great and winning every week it would be easier to take but we beat ourselves again today.
QUOTE]

this always seems to be the case with us against them though, every time it seems. yet again i think there was a lack of pace, yet again and not just against heartz.The amount of throws ins for us witch were given to heartz

the amount of long range shorts, a couple i recall witch were closer to easter road than the goal, geez

[proud_and_green]

I watched the game at my 86 year old Mother's. Bearing in mind she doesn't really watch or like football, she seemed to have a better grip on the game than our management team did. Summed it up by saying "why do they play it with the ball in the air all the time, they'll never get anywhere with that. The ball needs to be played on the ground and passed from player to player."

[Keith_M]

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I watched the game at my 86 year old Mother's. Bearing in mind she doesn't really watch or like football, she seemed to have a better grip on the game than our management team did. Summed it up by saying "why do they play it with the ball in the air all the time, they'll never get anywhere with that. The ball needs to be played on the ground and passed from player to player."

Butcher Out, P&G's Mum In!

[mmmmhibby]

For some reason, MM seems to me as if he's a total dick!!!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

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For some reason, MM seems to me as if he's a total dick!!!!

What reason would that be, or did you just want to be able to include the word "dick" in a sentence?

[woodyloon]

IMO the squad we have contains good players, but it the managements job to get them playing to there best. I don't like the way we are pumping the ball forward so quickly, I have no problem getting the ball forward quicker, as I thought before we sometimes passed the ball to much, but no point just pumping the ball up to say Collins when he has no one flick it on for, give possession back to the opposition and get caught all disjointed.

[sean]

Any football manager worth his salt should be able to inspire, motivate and work the tactics around the players at his disposal. Terry butcher has and is failing on all 3.

Hibs have good players, proven SPL players, they have off course under performed but Thomson and Liam Craig would start for 80% of teams.