still behind Butcher?

[Ronniekirk]

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God how I'm tired of hearing "until he brings in his own squad."

Might be tired of hearing it but until he does he can't be fully judged .What we do know is he has made an arse of managing this squad since the 2 2 draw against Dundee United That's fact and if he doesn't sort it out he has to take his share of the blame as at that point we were top six contenders and after that it has been all down hill .

[TornadoHibby]

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I am fully behind TB being the head coach. I want a manager who tells players and the Hibs board the things that need to be said if Hibs are going to be respected in football again. There has been too many managers who have been at Hibs for less than 2 years and the result is an open door of players coming into the Hibs team and leaving when their contracts expire or are bought out. I want Hibs to be competitive again and win silverware. Other clubs outside the'OF' do it. We should also win more silverware and not every 20 years or so.
The next 6 games are vital for Hibs to make sure our place in the SPL and to allow TB to get the players that he wants for next season. It is clear that there are many players at ER who do not belong in our team and will be moved on ASAP. There is a lot of young players coming through the reserve league and some have made it into the first team. That is a bright light in a dull season.

John Collins tried that but look what happened there!?

[Jim44]

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I'm sure we all are, but the truth is he can't properly be judged with someone elses team

Right enough, isn't it shocking how Derek McInnes is getting credit for doing fabulously with Craig Brown's duds.

[erskine-hibby]

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Right enough, isn't it shocking how Derek McInnes is getting credit for doing fabulously with Craig Brown's duds.

He has brought in good players and has had a full season to work on them. Totally different situation. That said, I thought TB would have got more out of the poop he was left with.

[Jones28]

How has he managed to turn a team of duds who are safely bottom 6, never relegation candidates, into a free falling team of bottle merchants who couldn't pass water?

[Onceinawhile]

Nope.

poor man management, poor tactically, terrible football, leaves his changes too late, boufing in the transfer window, cant get the defense organised(14 against in our last 6!!), full of empty rhetoric/threats, gubbed by raith, partick, st johnstone and hearts and now one win in 13 (on that basis 3 wins a season!!!)

He's like fenlon, but with worse results and football.

[Jim44]

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He has brought in good players and has had a full season to work on them. Totally different situation. That said, I thought TB would have got more out of the poop he was left with.

Fair point, but I think that McInnes has been more proactive in his approach while Butcher has gradually become more reactive and hides behind the realisation that he's adopted a heap of cr@p.

[Scouse Hibee]

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How has he managed to turn a team of duds who are safely bottom 6, never relegation candidates, into a free falling team of bottle merchants who couldn't pass water?

He coached them and used his motivational skills!

[Captain Trips]

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How has he managed to turn a team of duds who are safely bottom 6, never relegation candidates, into a free falling team of bottle merchants who couldn't pass water?

He has done nothing with this squad to suggest he will do better given time. I did not expect him to have us pushing right up league I did expect some form of improvement of which I have not seen. There is no justification on what has been seen thus far he is any more capable of sorting this than Fenlon would. Fenlon was a disaster and I have yet to see why TB will do better when with the same players as PF even if bad players he hasn't improved things at all really.

I would have accepted going from pish to slightly less pish but he hasn't even managed that. Not somebody I have confidence in clearing out this team and going forward.

[erskine-hibby]

Yes but it's hard to be proactive when you can't get players in. But as I said I thought he would have got more out of them.

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[Eyrie]

[QUOTE=Scouse Hibee;3949712]

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Still behind Butcher.

I want to see what he does with players that want to play well for us and be at Hibs.[/QUOTE]

These type of comments annoy me, as if masses of players suddenly don't want to play for a club that pays their wages and don't want to play well, total bollox in my opinion, of course they want to play well and be at Hibs.........................they're just not ****** good enough to do it.

I can understand a lack of ability, but the relative lack of effort annoys me. Far too often it's the opposition that are first to the loose ball or that win the 50-50s.

Part of that is down to Butcher being publicly critical of the squad. It's clear that some players have switched off as they don't believe they will be here next year.

[Jim44]

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He coached them and used his motivational skills!

Would that be the same cringeworthy motivational skills seen in the well publicised Youtube video which some were raving about when he burst onto the ER scene? I think he fancies himself as a better 'motivator' than he actually is.

[Pete]

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Would that be the same cringeworthy motivational skills seen in the well publicised Youtube video which some were raving about when he burst onto the ER scene? I think he fancies himself as a better 'motivator' than he actually is.

These same "cringeworthy motivational skills" were used on an ICT team that was second when he left for us, fourth the year before that and relegation fodder when he first arrived.

You only allow yourself to be positively effected by something if you buy into it and believe in it. Most of the ICT squad were selected by him and the vast majority of the hibs squad are Fenlons players who have had this whole regime change forced upon the.

He turned them into something greater than the sum of their parts because he was given time to select the suitable parts that would buy into his ideology. The way some people are kicking him because he isn't getting the best out of a bunch of low quality players who are someone else's selection is ridiculous.

His inability to do so is heavily outweighed by his ability to get his own choices punching well above their weight as part of a cohesive, powerful unit.

[Northern Hibby]

FFS they came from a team 2nd to us because they said with the new resources we're being given we can achieve more, they did not say we can make these players better just leave them with us, they'll keep us up then make us better,fitter,faster and stronger.

[SMAXXA]

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These same "cringeworthy motivational skills" were used on an ICT team that was second when he left for us, fourth the year before that and relegation fodder when he first arrived.

You only allow yourself to be positively effected by something if you buy into it and believe in it. Most of the ICT squad were selected by him and the vast majority of the hibs squad are Fenlons players who have had this whole regime change forced upon the.

He turned them into something greater than the sum of their parts because he was given time to select the suitable parts that would buy into his ideology. The way some people are kicking him because he isn't getting the best out of a bunch of low quality players who are someone else's selection is ridiculous.

His inability to do so is heavily outweighed by his ability to get his own choices punching well above their weight as part of a cohesive, powerful unit.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. A good manager and coaches will get the best out of a bad bunch, your exactly the sum of a lot of hibs fans using the "it's no his players etc" well ken what it is his players, aye he never brought them in but he's got a responsibility to them and us to get the best out them. Am ****ed if I'm allowing us to get relegated to still say it's no his team. Folk say aye it's refreshing to hear him so honest, well ken what I can be as honest but am a fan no a manager, never have I seen a manager come in and be so disconnected from his team.

[Jim44]

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These same "cringeworthy motivational skills" were used on an ICT team that was second when he left for us, fourth the year before that and relegation fodder when he first arrived.

You only allow yourself to be positively effected by something if you buy into it and believe in it. Most of the ICT squad were selected by him and the vast majority of the hibs squad are Fenlons players who have had this whole regime change forced upon the.

He turned them into something greater than the sum of their parts because he was given time to select the suitable parts that would buy into his ideology. The way some people are kicking him because he isn't getting the best out of a bunch of low quality players who are someone else's selection is ridiculous.

His inability to do so is heavily outweighed by his ability to get his own choices punching well above their weight as part of a cohesive, powerful unit.

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I don't think it's ridiculous at all. A good manager and coaches will get the best out of a bad bunch, your exactly the sum of a lot of hibs fans using the "it's no his players etc" well ken what it is his players, aye he never brought them in but he's got a responsibility to them and us to get the best out them. Am ****ed if I'm allowing us to get relegated to still say it's no his team. Folk say aye it's refreshing to hear him so honest, well ken what I can be as honest but am a fan no a manager, never have I seen a manager come in and be so disconnected from his team.

I see where you're coming from, Peter, but I think Butcher and Malpas should have still been able to keep us well clear of the danger we are being rapidly dragged into. If Butcher had told Petrie at his interview that thing's at ER would get dramatically worse before they got any better, he would still be in Inverness today.

Good shout, SMAXXA

[basehibby]

The question was "Still behind Butcher?" and it's an emphatic YES from me - not that there's any choice in the matter at this moment from where I'm standing.

We are in a scrap to avoid an unwanted finale to the season in the shape of a nerve shredding play off and Butcher is the man at the helm. As such he has my full blooded support along with every man he calls upon to wear the green and white over the coming weeks - regardless of shortcomings - real or imagined.

We have an advantage over all our rivals in this fight but it's a battle we cannot afford to lose and Butcher and the team will need our positive support to help them rise to the challenge - this is no time to be turning on Butcher or the team or each other for that matter. Time to take a deep breath, accept we're in a scrap and get along and do our bit at what supporters are supposed to be good at - supporting!

[Pete]

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I don't think it's ridiculous at all. A good manager and coaches will get the best out of a bad bunch, your exactly the sum of a lot of hibs fans using the "it's no his players etc" well ken what it is his players, aye he never brought them in but he's got a responsibility to them and us to get the best out them. Am ****ed if I'm allowing us to get relegated to still say it's no his team. Folk say aye it's refreshing to hear him so honest, well ken what I can be as honest but am a fan no a manager, never have I seen a manager come in and be so disconnected from his team.

I thinks it's ridiculous when you look at the bigger picture.

I concede that he probably doesn't have the skills to get this set of players performing. That's obvious by the amount of formation and personnel changes. He's almost given up and is hoping they he can get them scraped over the line.

His strengths, on the other hand, are obvious. He assembled a team that believe in themselves and perform because he selected them, inspired them and made them into the unit they are.

Getting other peoples players to perform won't be a problem next season. My problem is the fact that the positives are constantly overlooked and challenged by those who are too short sighted to see that we can be in a good place if he's given time to mould his own team.

I wonder how many people who suddenly class this guy as a mug watched ICT outplay us constantly over a sustained period?

[edinburghhibee]

In answer to the OP, yes 100% the manager shouldn't have to tell the players they need to give their all that's part of being a pro player. Those wage thief losers on that park today could not give a ****.

If I went into my work tomorrow and gave a days work like they just did I'd be on the dole the following day.

Disgusted with that performance today bar Forster and thommo when he came on the rest can pack up and **** off!!

[Pete]

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I see where you're coming from, Peter, but I think Butcher and Malpas should have still been able to keep us well clear of the danger we are being rapidly dragged into. If Butcher had told Petrie at his interview that thing's at ER would get dramatically worse before they got any better, he would still be in Inverness today.

Good shout, SMAXXA

He probably did tell Petrie that things would get worse but I don't think anyone could have predicted this sort of slump.

To be honest, I'm willing to sacrafice this season totally because I know what he's capable of with his own players.

Normally I would even say that dropping down a division would be a price to pay knowing that but with sevco and hearts?




It's not going to happen. It can't

[nickwhibs]

No

[MontrealHibs]

Yes but his desperate team selection does not match his experience. He needs to back some players and stick to them.

[Just_Jimmy]

He has no track record bar two years at ICT.

Poor and should have taken Motherwell down
Poor in England
Poor in Australia
Took ICT Down before he took them back up.

So far he's done nothing to show why he's here.


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[broonie27]

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I'm getting a bit concerned with his false promises he gives the media......."might as well play kids if we're going to lose" as an example. He goes on to tell us that Harris will be rested for the remainder of the season and then uses him today.

We we just have to hope he can build his own team for next season and judge him on that.

My thoughts exactly. I've never, ever rated him. He just says the first thing that comes into his head at press conferences in the hope that some of it sounds like he's real tough and the rest of it is funny.

I hope he proves me wrong but I simply do not believe he is the one to get us out of this mire.

[Dinkydoo]

I wouldn't have expected us to be doing so poorly had PF still been in charge. I'm still behind Butcher, but my patience is running out and if we want to be in the top division next year our time is running out, we need points on the board.

[Scorrie]

Edging towards a "no" for me. Looks tactically clueless and cannae set up a team. Talks the big man talk but cannae deliver.

[Steve-O]

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I don't think it's ridiculous at all. A good manager and coaches will get the best out of a bad bunch, your exactly the sum of a lot of hibs fans using the "it's no his players etc" well ken what it is his players, aye he never brought them in but he's got a responsibility to them and us to get the best out them. Am ****ed if I'm allowing us to get relegated to still say it's no his team. Folk say aye it's refreshing to hear him so honest, well ken what I can be as honest but am a fan no a manager, never have I seen a manager come in and be so disconnected from his team.

True. It's like a new manager starting in an office and saying he can't do a good job until he sacks all the current workers and hires an entire new staff.

As we all know, that's not how the world works.

[SouthamptonHibs]

No

[we are hibs]

I'm behind Butcher and I realise this isn't his team but his decision making and tactics yesterday were brutal. Collins should not have started and Heffernan should have. Thomson should have started. And this long ball pish he keeps playing was soul destroying to watch. Wouldn't have minded it if we done it correctly and we had a big striker upfront who can hold it up and flick it on, but we don't, we have James Collins.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Lost faith in him big time.

Don't care anymore how well he done prior to joining Hibs.
He is employed by Hibs to do a job and so far is failing miserably.

Every bit as pathetic as under Fenlon, perhaps even worse.

A lot to prove, granted he needs the summer to make many changes and he'll get the time he needs... but so far, been really dissapointed in him and the awful hoofball and spineless efforts of the team.

I expected him to make us better, now i'm leaning to 'hoping'