What makes these teams great?

[heretoday]

Okay we've seen arguably the two top teams in the world making hay against Arsenal and Man City on their own patches.

What makes these guys so good? They're only human after all!

Why can't Hibs do that?

[eastterrace]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Okay we've seen arguably the two top teams in the world making hay against Arsenal and Man City on their own patches.

What makes these guys so good? They're only human after all!

Why can't Hibs do that?

you need pace and quick thinking and be able to read a game and we dont have anybody like that except maybe stanton who might just become one of those better players in the near future.

[SaulGoodman]

Money money money

[eastterrace]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Money money money

oh and this helps as well

[Scottie]

About £300 million give or take a few £

[Hibbyradge]

Awareness.

[gaz1875]

Work rate and pace, we have neither. If you saw Barca yesterday they were all over Man City as soon as they had the ball, right from the keepers possession. Not seen the Arsenal game but my bet is Bayern did the same.

[SteveHFC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Money money money

[TheFamous1875]

Wen Butcher first got the Hibs job, he said that he would have Hibs "work as hard" as Barcelona and Bayern, etc. It's a start, at least.

I think we have to understand how important it is to develop our own players. With the knowledge of sports science and the facilities we've now got, we should be having players better than Scott Brown coming through more frequently. Stanton and Harris look like they could maybe be the beginning of this, but it's very early doors.

We should be on our way to a great future. We have the business infrastructure in place, now we need to take the next step, which is to develop players of a high quality, sell them on for a big price (we have previous) and further invest in the development of players. Once this cycle is in motion, we could be in a place to start investing in the first team financially and become a major force in Scottish football.

It's as simple as that (if only it was). This is what we should at least be trying to achieve.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[heretoday]

If I might reply to my own thread, I would say that I am always impressed by the way these guys can get a ball under control and pass it off quickly. They instinctively know that there is a man available to pass it to because their teammates are programmed to support them.

That must be down to training. Therefore the coach is the most important figure, no?

[brianmc]

The ability to pass the ball 10 yards, then move into space to be available for a return pass epitomises Xavi Hernandez's game-and he's pretty much universally acclaimed as the best midfielder of his generation.
Makes you wonder why some bang average SPFL players routinely attempt 50-60 yard "passes" .
Football is a simple game, made difficult by dimwits!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Undoubtedly money, however all these big teams, play the same football through all age groups. They work on children, so that they can be aware of every position on the pitch, and it stands them in good stead for the future. These teams invest in youth academies, and ensure that their youth get the best possible start and tuition in the game.

[TheFamous1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If I might reply to my own thread, I would say that I am always impressed by the way these guys can get a ball under control and pass it off quickly. They instinctively know that there is a man available to pass it to because their teammates are programmed to support them.

That must be down to training. Therefore the coach is the most important figure, no?

It's the coaching and the fact that these players have the time to gel and instinctively know where to go and what to do. These teams all have a spine that's kept together for years and years (and sometimes longer, from playing as youths). Hibs and most other teams in the world can not financially afford to keep those special kind of players together, hence why it's so hard to build on the foundations set for success.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Scorrie]

Get the youngsters playing football the proper way with good coaching, facilities, and lifestyle education. Ok Bayern have spent big but they have a number of players who have come through the ranks as well.

[heretoday]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's the coaching and the fact that these players have the time to gel and instinctively know where to go and what to do. These teams all have a spine that's kept together for years and years (and sometimes longer, from playing as youths). Hibs and most other teams in the world can not financially afford to keep those special kind of players together, hence why it's so hard to build on the foundations set for success.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

That's interesting (said the professor of football). A spine that keeps them together.

[TheFamous1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's interesting (said the professor of football). A spine that keeps them together.

Are you the professor of football?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[heretoday]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are you the professor of football?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yes, I am.

[Ronniekirk]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Okay we've seen arguably the two top teams in the world making hay against Arsenal and Man City on their own patches.

What makes these guys so good? They're only human after all!

Why can't Hibs do that?

Coaching methods must be part of it and skill base of young players is Sutch that they are taught how to bring ball down touch control and pass .They know where players are going to run to and are specially aware .They are fitter and lifestyle different .

[Wotherspiniesta]

I really wish we would at least TRY and implement some of the techniques used by Barca, Bayern etc. The standard of our "passing" is an abomination compared to these teams. Barely ever do we see slick, incisive play by Hibs. Sorry to sound like a miserable ******* and I know we won at the weekend, but the playing style offered up at Easter Road is and has been eyebleeding for years. We should be teaching players to create opportunities by getting the ball from the back and PASSING the ball on the deck instead of just lashing it to anybody playing up front.

[RN Hibee]

I know this isn't really the point of this thread but I'm sure the red card both Arsenal and Man City received played a pretty big part in the way the games played out. On a more Hibs related point I've always wondered myself how there can be such a skill gap at a professional level between players like Messi and Ronaldo and then some of the garbage we've had to endure at our club over the past couple of years.

[500miles]

These teams have scouting systems and youth acadamies world wide. The net they cast when trying to catch talented youngsters is far larger than Hibs can afford to. And then, when players they missed show ability at other clubs, they take them too.

It's all about the money.

[TheFamous1875]

Thought I'd post a link to James McDonagh's latest interview, where he talks about implementing a football philosophy that he calls the "Hibs way" through all ages at the academy. http://youtu.be/35L-34Ip0WY


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Wotherspiniesta]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know this isn't really the point of this thread but I'm sure the red card both Arsenal and Man City received played a pretty big part in the way the games played out. On a more Hibs related point I've always wondered myself how there can be such a skill gap at a professional level between players like Messi and Ronaldo and then some of the garbage we've had to endure at our club over the past couple of years.

All it did was give them an excuse.

The sooner the British press realise the gulf in class between the EPL and the Bundesliga/La Liga the better.

[Stax]

I sometimes feel like like I'm watching a different sport. I'm talking about the English premiership v European football. Obviously money plays a big part, but for all the money sloshing around English football I feel like even Arsenal, City etc are miles behind where the modern game is now. Entertaining or not the high tempo 100 miles an hr EPL doesn't work in Europe or international football any more. Where that leaves us / Scottish football in general I don't know.

[heretoday]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

These teams have scouting systems and youth acadamies world wide. The net they cast when trying to catch talented youngsters is far larger than Hibs can afford to. And then, when players they missed show ability at other clubs, they take them too.

It's all about the money.

Yes but they are just guys at the end of the day. I wonder what the coaches of Bayern or Barca would make of the Hibs squad if they were, amazingly, given exclusive access to them for six months.

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Coaching methods must be part of it and skill base of young players is Sutch that they are taught how to bring ball down touch control and pass .They know where players are going to run to and are specially aware .They are fitter and lifestyle different .

I was lucky to have experienced both German and Dutch coaching in my youth career, albeit when very young - the Dutch were ahead of everyone in Europe then and still are now in my opinion. Spain might be 'football rich' just now, but Holland for me, per capita and per league structures, are way ahead in terms of coaching young players and always will be - it's engrained in their coaching systems.

Interestingly though we beat both German and Dutch teams when we played (80's) - it was down to braun, strength and the terribly typical Scottish trait of 'win win win' regardless of technique - in other words, coaches on the sidelines not overly concerned with technique, just 'get into them' !

As Collins said - the ball does the work - and in adulthood the ball always wins against brut strength.

[clerriehibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Get the youngsters playing football the proper way with good coaching, facilities, and lifestyle education. Ok Bayern have spent big but they have a number of players who have come through the ranks as well.

Their ranks being huge, of course.

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Their ranks being huge, of course.

Watch a game at Saughton Enclosure any Sunday, listen to the 'coaching' then get back to me - doesn't matter about ranks or 'numbers' - coaching in Scotland is utterly utterly atrocious - hence we have been so poor in Euro and World competitions forever !

Noting also that even with decent players we've never qualified from a group in a major tourney, even when footballing backwaters were not there.

Drink, drugs and poor work rate - that's Scotland's football blight.

[clerriehibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Watch a game at Saughton Enclosure any Sunday, listen to the 'coaching' then get back to me - doesn't matter about ranks or 'numbers' - coaching in Scotland is utterly utterly atrocious - hence we have been so poor in Euro and World competitions forever !

Noting also that even with decent players we've never qualified from a group in a major tourney, even when footballing backwaters were not there.

Drink, drugs and poor work rate - that's Scotland's football blight.

You should write in to James Mcdonaugh with your observations on why his coaching set-up is piss poor.

My comment was a response to someone saying bayern spent big but still brought players through the ranks. of course they do; they will probably screen every potential star of the future in germany, and beyond, from a young age, so of course they're going to unearth some diamonds.

[Unseen work]

The problem in Scottish football is not the technique side IMO. Although they are superior to me the key points are:
Confidence
Positional awareness/organisation
Creating space/options

It's been coached at a young age to have 3 options available when your on the ball abroad. The movement of players off the ball is IMO one of the most Key aspects to a good team. Knowing when to release the ball and the right position/ angle to create for your team mate so it makes ball retention easier

Football in Scotland is pretty much get the ball foward at pace, very few coaches have the patience to learn or pass on knowledge to their players about creating options and space to receive the ball in.

Confidence abroad is instilled in the players early that they should be confident of receiving the ball in any situation and being comfortable on it, this confidence comes from your team mates making the options aswell tho.
Over here your taught to clear your likes which essentially results in hoofing the ball half the game, again players expect your going to do so so don't create options for you.

Organisation and positional awareness for me as well even at the top flight here it seems the players are unsure when to press the ball, go for the attack or keep the ball. A lot of them run all over the place just trying to make a block instead of staying as a unit which results in them getting played through easily. Again the positional awareness is knowing when your on the ball, is where your team mates are likely to be and for the person without the ball - where is the pass likely to be made and where is the space.

Theirs a lot of pressure in this country to just get up the park as quick as possible but for me were never going to really develop unless we instill this in the players at a young age. Make them go out fearless, it's a hobby for kids so make it enjoyable don't scream at them for trying to take the ball in a area, even if it leads to a mistake