Was PF a success?

[Beefster]

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PF tried to make Hibs hard to beat and got hounded.

Did he succeed?

[greenpaper55]

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Did he succeed?

Remember, nothing succeeds like a budgie with nae teeth !

[Elephant Stone]

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Did he succeed?

First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

[Steve20]

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First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

He led us to the most embarrassing results in my lifetime supporting Hibs.
The football he had us playing was abysmal.
Teams with smaller budgets were still finishing above us and outplaying us.

There is no way he was succeeding.

[aunty joyce]

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First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

THIS

[Ozyhibby]

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He led us to the most embarrassing results in my lifetime supporting Hibs.
The football he had us playing was abysmal.
Teams with smaller budgets were still finishing above us and outplaying us.

There is no way he was succeeding.

This 100%

[Elephant Stone]

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He led us to the most embarrassing results in my lifetime supporting Hibs.
The football he had us playing was abysmal.
Teams with smaller budgets were still finishing above us and outplaying us.

There is no way he was succeeding.

Beefster asked if he was succeeding in making us harder to beat. It's not possible to argue that he didn't succeed in this respect. We've been progressively improving in this respect throughout his tenure. Whether or not this is good enough for some fans is a separate matter, most seem to feel entitled to a certain style of play as well as immediacy in improvement in results.

[Bobby's Cinema]

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Beefster asked if he was succeeding in making us harder to beat. It's not possible to argue that he didn't succeed in this respect. We've been progressively improving in this respect throughout his tenure. Whether or not this is good enough for some fans is a separate matter, most seem to feel entitled to a certain style of play as well as immediacy in improvement in results.

Pat took us as far as he could. He said it himself

[Andy74]

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Pat took us as far as he could. He said it himself

I don't think that's actually what he said. He said most of the negativity was being aimed at him and so he was taking himself out of it and hoped someone else could now take them forward. I don't think he said anywhere that he didn't have the ability if allowed to to take them forward himself.

[Bobby's Cinema]

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I don't think that's actually what he said. He said most of the negativity was being aimed at him and so he was taking himself out of it and hoped someone else could now take them forward. I don't think he said anywhere that he didn't have the ability if allowed to to take them forward himself.

You're right he never said those words exactly. That's the tone of the interview though. "I've taken Hibs as far as I can, I'm happy for someone else to come in and take over us in a better position." Not wanting to have a go at Pat anyway, onwards and upwards

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

Is this what equates to success for a Hibs manager these days? The footballing landscape in Scotland has significantly changed, with Hearts starting with a boys club team on -15 and no Rangers in any guise you care to choose in the top division. Not success for me, maybe my expectations are too high.

[E10 Rifle]

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First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

Last seasons position is without Rangers, this season without Hearts and Rangers...there's nothing to shout about there and nothing any Hibs supporter should be proud of.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Beefster asked if he was succeeding in making us harder to beat. It's not possible to argue that he didn't succeed in this respect. We've been progressively improving in this respect throughout his tenure. Whether or not this is good enough for some fans is a separate matter, most seem to feel entitled to a certain style of play as well as immediacy in improvement in results.

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I don't think that's actually what he said. He said most of the negativity was being aimed at him and so he was taking himself out of it and hoped someone else could now take them forward. I don't think he said anywhere that he didn't have the ability if allowed to to take them forward himself.

Don't let logic, or facts, get in the way of a good argument.

[E10 Rifle]

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Is this what equates to success for a Hibs manager these days? The footballing landscape in Scotland has significantly changed, with Hearts starting with a boys club team on -15 and no Rangers in any guise you care to choose in the top division. Not success for me, maybe my expectations are too high.

(just nicked on in front of me...but spot on)

[Hibby Bairn]

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He led us to the most embarrassing results in my lifetime supporting Hibs.
The football he had us playing was abysmal.
Teams with smaller budgets were still finishing above us and outplaying us.

There is no way he was succeeding.

[Thecat23]

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I don't think that's actually what he said. He said most of the negativity was being aimed at him and so he was taking himself out of it and hoped someone else could now take them forward. I don't think he said anywhere that he didn't have the ability if allowed to to take them forward himself.

Yes he did, here is a direct quote..


“A lot of the anger is directed at me, and rightly so because I’m at the helm, and I can understand the frustration of the supporters. It’s time to change that by taking myself out of the equation.

“I certainly think the team can go further. I don’t think I am the man to take it forward but there is a hell of a lot more to come from these players.”

[Bobby's Cinema]

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Don't let logic, or facts, get in the way of a good argument.

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Yes he did, here is a direct quote..


“A lot of the anger is directed at me, and rightly so because I’m at the helm, and I can understand the frustration of the supporters. It’s time to change that by taking myself out of the equation.

“I certainly think the team can go further. I don’t think I am the man to take it forward but there is a hell of a lot more to come from these players.”

ahah!

[Purehibee_MYB]

Loving all this talk about whether Terry Butcher is our manager yet guys!

[PatHead]

I think PF succeeded in the extent that Hibs are for the first time in years not in crisis. When the new manager takes over he will have a club heading in the right direction and with more half decent players than poor ones. The club is more stable than it has been for a long time. It is easy to forget how much of a mess Hibs were in when Pat arrived and for how long we had been in decline. An earlier poster compared Pat's job to that of Craig Brown at Aberdeen. McInnes is now reaping the benefits. I hope we are in the same position in a few months and with hindsight PF will get some credit.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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ahah!

[Elephant Stone]

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Don't let logic, or facts, get in the way of a good argument.

What facts or logic would get in the way of what I said? The question was "did he succeed in making us harder to beat?" He did, because our results have progressively improved over his tenure. It seems rather that facts and logic are getting in the way of the counter argument, that he didn't succeed in this respect.

[Liberal Hibby]

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I think PF succeeded in the extent that Hibs are for the first time in years not in crisis. When the new manager takes over he will have a club heading in the right direction and with more half decent players than poor ones. The club is more stable than it has been for a long time. It is easy to forget how much of a mess Hibs were in when Pat arrived and for how long we had been in decline. An earlier poster compared Pat's job to that of Craig Brown at Aberdeen. McInnes is now reaping the benefits. I hope we are in the same position in a few months and with hindsight PF will get some credit.

Indeed - that's my view too.

[blackpoolhibs]

He succeeded in driving more and more people away from Easter Road.

[southsider]

No, complete falure and only slightly less bad than CC. 2 utter humiliations and some of the worst football i have ever saw. Left us with a squad of players with no pace and who seem chicken hearted.

[easty]

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First season: 11th
Second season: 7th
Third season: Resigned whilst joint-sixth.

The facts are that he was in the process of succeeding but left before his contract was up. The issue is surely whether or not he was hounded out rather than whether or not he was succeeding. He undeniably was succeeding and I'd also agree with the person you quoted that he was hounded out, I don't think anyone could really say otherwise.

The fact our league positions improved isn't a marker as to whether Pat did or did not succeed for me. You have to factor in the standard of the opposition, cos they weren't a constant in the equation, and the relative budget PF had to work with.

PF did not succeed as manager of Hibs. Unless of course you equate success to bringing the worst Hibs results in my lifetime. That cup final. That European game. The absolute disgrace that is our two defeats to them this season. They are an absolute shambles and we handed them 2 massive confidence boosts, and gave thier fans bragging rights when they should be too embarrassed to look a Hibs fan in the eye and even talk about football.

[SlickShoes]

Not a complete failure, he got us out a calderwood shaped hole. Beyond that though he led us to some of the worst games I have ever watched as a Hibs supporter. I think this more than anything else led to him getting the bullet. We have been terrible to watch, if you couple that with losing to the worst hearts team ever TWICE, losing 9-0 in europe and losing two cup finals both in a terrible manner he had to go.

[Sergio sledge]

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Did he succeed?

In his only full season we had the second lowest losing record since Mowbray's first season in 2004 - 2005, 2006 - 2007 being the lowest. We also had the best defensive record (goals per game) since Mixu's only full season in charge in 2008 - 2009.

He failed to get us playing winning football, but we are harder to beat IMHO.

[HibsNibs]

Worst home result in our history & multiple other humiliations = complete failure

[yekimevol]

Pat was a success at Easter road, the issue was the playing mentality was not what we expect from a hibs side.

Season one Task - when he arrived, avoid relegation. [done] Bonus - Cup run.

Season two task - Improve league standing after the hell of last two seasons, finishes 7th best finish in two years. Bonus - Cup Run.

Season three - Top 6 / Europe, was 6th when he left.

If pat had us playing attacking football on the deck, he would still be at the club.

[Mark79]

No. League is our bread and butter. You cant make it look better with 2 cup finals especially when we lost both comfortably.

Turnaround of personnel is frightening and largely his squads have been murder with very little real quality.