Pat Fenlon - What would it take to keep him?

[TheFamous1875]

I was just thinking off the back of our shroud defensive display against Celtic in which Pat set us up to be hard to beat and it paid off. Personally, I have nothing but full credit to Pat Fenlon for Saturdays performance against a better team where we battled and didn't let them play their game. it's just what we have to do just now, against them, unfortunately. Every team in the Premiership should follow our example when it comes to playing Celtic.
It got me thinking about Pat, and his last season of his contract. The majority of us are not happy with the way we have been playing football under Fenlon (Celtic being the only notable exception where it is appropriate to play that type of game IMO), and would rather see someone who subscribes to the Hibernian philosophy of fast-paced, creative attacking football at the helm.

In regards to this years League Cup, we have a very good chance of getting our hands on the trophy, with the main threat already eliminated, it could be a shout, especially given Pat's pedigree when it comes to tournaments.

My question is this - if we were to win a trophy this season under Pat, would you feel obliged to give him more time, despite the fact that a lot of us have already made our minds up about him?

For me personally, I think a trophy would more than merit him staying on and really getting to instil his philosophies and beliefs in our club, he would earn the right to drive on the club, as it would show that his approach can pay off. However, I'm just not sure that I believe in him enough when it comes to managing this club, or buy into his policies. I'm far from convinced that he knows when to attack, and when to play football, and when to dig deep( or make a sub!). His approach to football has left me wanting for more.

This is not to say that he can't improve the more control he has over the proceedings our club, but so far, he's not shown enough potential for me to think this is achievable (we have very rarely attacked under him, I can't remember many counter attacks with speed and energy during his tenure, for example.)

I like his attitude to working hard together as a team, his recruitment policy has mostly been great, if I'm honest, and he's been bringing through youth and getting rid if the billybigboots culture that was at our club for many years, but tactically, when it comes to what happens on the park, I'm not convinced.

So there's good and bad, but I would like to see other people's opinions on the matter.

Would a cup win be enough to keep him?

[Andy74]

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I was just thinking off the back of our shroud defensive display against Celtic in which Pat set us up to be hard to beat and it paid off. Personally, I have nothing but full credit to Pat Fenlon for Saturdays performance against a better team where we battled and didn't let them play their game. it's just what we have to do just now, against them, unfortunately. Every team in the Premiership should follow our example when it comes to playing Celtic.
It got me thinking about Pat, and his last season of his contract. The majority of us are not happy with the way we have been playing football under Fenlon (Celtic being the only notable exception where it is appropriate to play that type of game IMO), and would rather see someone who subscribes to the Hibernian philosophy of fast-paced, creative attacking football at the helm.

In regards to this years League Cup, we have a very good chance of getting our hands on the trophy, with the main threat already eliminated, it could be a shout, especially given Pat's pedigree when it comes to tournaments.

My question is this - if we were to win a trophy this season under Pat, would you feel obliged to give him more time, despite the fact that a lot of us have already made our minds up about him?

For me personally, I think a trophy would more than merit him staying on and really getting to instil his philosophies and beliefs in our club, he would earn the right to drive on the club, as it would show that his approach can pay off. However, I'm just not sure that I believe in him enough when it comes to managing this club, or buy into his policies. I'm far from convinced that he knows when to attack, and when to play football, and when to dig deep( or make a sub!). His approach to football has left me wanting for more.

This is not to say that he can't improve the more control he has over the proceedings our club, but so far, he's not shown enough potential for me to think this is achievable (we have very rarely attacked under him, I can't remember many counter attacks with speed and energy during his tenure, for example.)

I like his attitude to working hard together as a team, his recruitment policy has mostly been great, if I'm honest, and he's been bringing through youth and getting rid if the billybigboots culture that was at our club for many years, but tactically, when it comes to what happens on the park, I'm not convinced.

So there's good and bad, but I would like to see other people's opinions on the matter.

Would a cup win be enough to keep him?

I'm so glad we've finally got a thread about this.

Are we the only set of fans who would be debating the manager's position in these circumstances?

A few weeks ago maybe if you didn't see things changing, but now?

[Lucius Apuleius]

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I was just thinking off the back of our shroud defensive display against Celtic in which Pat set us up to be hard to beat and it paid off. Personally, I have nothing but full credit to Pat Fenlon for Saturdays performance against a better team where we battled and didn't let them play their game. it's just what we have to do just now, against them, unfortunately. Every team in the Premiership should follow our example when it comes to playing Celtic.
It got me thinking about Pat, and his last season of his contract. The majority of us are not happy with the way we have been playing football under Fenlon (Celtic being the only notable exception where it is appropriate to play that type of game IMO), and would rather see someone who subscribes to the Hibernian philosophy of fast-paced, creative attacking football at the helm.

In regards to this years League Cup, we have a very good chance of getting our hands on the trophy, with the main threat already eliminated, it could be a shout, especially given Pat's pedigree when it comes to tournaments.

My question is this - if we were to win a trophy this season under Pat, would you feel obliged to give him more time, despite the fact that a lot of us have already made our minds up about him?

For me personally, I think a trophy would more than merit him staying on and really getting to instil his philosophies and beliefs in our club, he would earn the right to drive on the club, as it would show that his approach can pay off. However, I'm just not sure that I believe in him enough when it comes to managing this club, or buy into his policies. I'm far from convinced that he knows when to attack, and when to play football, and when to dig deep( or make a sub!). His approach to football has left me wanting for more.

This is not to say that he can't improve the more control he has over the proceedings our club, but so far, he's not shown enough potential for me to think this is achievable (we have very rarely attacked under him, I can't remember many counter attacks with speed and energy during his tenure, for example.)

I like his attitude to working hard together as a team, his recruitment policy has mostly been great, if I'm honest, and he's been bringing through youth and getting rid if the billybigboots culture that was at our club for many years, but tactically, when it comes to what happens on the park, I'm not convinced.

So there's good and bad, but I would like to see other people's opinions on the matter.

Would a cup win be enough to keep him?

He will be the death of us going by your opening sentence. :-)

[Wheat Hound]

I agree to an extent with the OP but bottom line is if we don't beat Hertz in the cup the knives will be out for Pat again. I have definitely seen signs of improvement and progression in the last month or so though.

[Keith_M]

I wish people would stop talking about winning a trophy. All I want for now is to beat Hearts in the next round. If and when that happens, then we should discuss further rounds.

IMHO, Pat will leave Hibs at the end of this season. I think he's taken a lot of stick here and may think the best thing to do would be to move on.

[andy1875]

Win the League Cup.

Win the Scottish Cup.

Finish 2nd in the league.

Anything other than all of the above and I'd bin him.

[PeeJay]

"What would it take to keep him" ... ???? As far as I'm concerned he should be emptied as soon as possible. He has shown nothing to convince me that he can produce a team that we can be proud of, one that will challenge for 2nd spot in the SPFL and win trophies. I don't expect him to do any of that, to be honest. Having said that - if he won a trophy for the club - and I wouldn't want him here to achieve it by default, the other team would have to turn up - then I would feel that he had deserved the chance to remain a bit longer in the manager's seat. We don't win trophies often enough to chase anyone who succeeds in doing so out the door just after having done so. Still, it's not going to happen. The more interesting question, I feel is: what will it take to get rid of him? Getting beat 0-7 at home to some Swedish outfit, or losing 1-5 to Hearts in a cup final is not enough apparently .... how bad does it have to get?

[Pretty Boy]

We have looked better the last few weeks, Partick and ICT excepted.

If we continue to battle as we have done and show continued improvement, as well as looking to start introducing elements that are easier on the eye, then i'd be perfectly ok with Fenlon getting a new contract.

If we collapse for 3/4 months again as we did last year then he probably hasn't done enough. The new contract is in the balance imo.

[147lothian]

Other managers will sit up and recognise that the way Pat set his team up against Celtic is what they have to do to get anything out of the game, it made me laugh to hear Lennons comments because he did exactly the same when they played the superstars of Barcalona and it worked then too

I would like to see the board showing some faith in Fenlon, and letting him bring in quality which isn't cheap, d'utd's board did it when they let McNamara sign goodwillie on 5.5k a week, our board should do the same, show faith in Fenlon, by letting him, buy, the rewards will be through the turnstyle, and also so faith in Fenlon by offering him a longer contract, that way we have stability, look at the topteams in England, they all got success by having stability at the top.

[LioNeilMessi]

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Win the League Cup.

Win the Scottish Cup.

Finish 2nd in the league.

Anything other than all of the above and I'd bin him.

Following that logic you would bin him if he won the league.

Finish 2nd in the league: No More, No Less

[hibeemikey21]

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Win the League Cup.

Win the Scottish Cup.

Finish 2nd in the league.

Anything other than all of the above and I'd bin him.

So you would.....

I would snap your hand off for any of the above, let alone all 3.

Fed up with the sacking culture/managerial carousel at hibs. Pat's fine. Team has steadily improved (now that he has got his squad together) and we have reached 2 SC finals in the 2 seasons he has been here. Let's stick with him.

[Andy74]

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"What would it take to keep him" ... ???? As far as I'm concerned he should be emptied as soon as possible. He has shown nothing to convince me that he can produce a team that we can be proud of, one that will challenge for 2nd spot in the SPFL and win trophies. I don't expect him to do any of that, to be honest. Having said that - if he won a trophy for the club - and I wouldn't want him here to achieve it by default, the other team would have to turn up - then I would feel that he had deserved the chance to remain a bit longer in the manager's seat. We don't win trophies often enough to chase anyone who succeeds in doing so out the door just after having done so. Still, it's not going to happen. The more interesting question, I feel is: what will it take to get rid of him? Getting beat 0-7 at home to some Swedish outfit, or losing 1-5 to Hearts in a cup final is not enough apparently .... how bad does it have to get?

Recent short to medium term form suggest we can very much challenge for 2nd place. Our averages over 9, 12, 15 games all bring a points tally that would get 2nd or 3rd.

Going out a bit longer over 19 games gets back down to tally that would have got 4th last year.

Over the last 38 games we'd be 6th.

We've been in two cup finals with him so suggest we are nearer challenging for cups than with most previous managers.

Are we giving Hearts the 5-1 fair and square now are we? And Fenlon was responsible for the state the club was in then? Should have been a miracle getting us there.

[andy1875]

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So you would.....

I would snap your hand off for any of the above, let alone all 3.

Fed up with the sacking culture/managerial carousel at hibs. Pat's fine. Team has steadily improved (now that he has got his squad together) and we have reached 2 SC finals in the 2 seasons he has been here. Let's stick with him.

I was clearly at the wind up.

Fwiw if he were to take us to any of the cups or finish top 4 then I think that would be enough to see him given a new contract.

[DJ HIBBY]

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Recent short to medium term form suggest we can very much challenge for 2nd place. Our averages over 9, 12, 15 games all bring a points tally that would get 2nd or 3rd.

Going out a bit longer over 19 games gets back down to tally that would have got 4th last year.

Over the last 38 games we'd be 6th.

We've been in two cup finals with him so suggest we are nearer challenging for cups than with most previous managers.

Are we giving Hearts the 5-1 fair and square now are we? And Fenlon was responsible for the state the club was in then? Should have been a miracle getting us there.

I know Andy you have backed Pat Fenlon to the hilt but can I ask you a serious question - would you say we are an enjoyable team to watch?

Would you also agree that you can win football matches playing a much better style of football?

In my opinion there are too many games like the Partick Thistle game where we have won but have played awful eye bleeding football.

[hibby rae]

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So you would.....

I would snap your hand off for any of the above, let alone all 3.

Fed up with the sacking culture/managerial carousel at hibs. Pat's fine. Team has steadily improved (now that he has got his squad together) and we have reached 2 SC finals in the 2 seasons he has been here. Let's stick with him.

[Jim44]

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So you would.....

I would snap your hand off for any of the above, let alone all 3.

Fed up with the sacking culture/managerial carousel at hibs. Pat's fine. Team has steadily improved (now that he has got his squad together) and we have reached 2 SC finals in the 2 seasons he has been here. Let's stick with him.

I want a manager whose main aim is greater than making us a difficult team to beat. That approach is unlikely to see us near the top of the league by the end of the season, so, lifting the Scottish cup is the only certain result which would merit a new contract. Personally, I think he will be away at the end of the season.

[Onceinawhile]

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We have looked better the last few weeks, Partick and ICT excepted.

If we continue to battle as we have done and show continued improvement, as well as looking to start introducing elements that are easier on the eye, then i'd be perfectly ok with Fenlon getting a new contract.

If we collapse for 3/4 months again as we did last year then he probably hasn't done enough. The new contract is in the balance imo.

I think this is pretty fair, I'd add the two provisos that should we win the league cup (still a long way away) then he should get at least a years extension. If we don't however and we are in the bottom six, I would bin him as soon as bottom six is confirmed.

[jacomo]

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I'm so glad we've finally got a thread about this.

Are we the only set of fans who would be debating the manager's position in these circumstances?

A few weeks ago maybe if you didn't see things changing, but now?

I think you are being a tad harsh. Sentiment has definitely improved with recent results, which seems only fair.

It seems to be more or less the 'settled will' of the support that Pat will see out his contract. But the club can't really leave it until next summer to offer him a new deal if we want him to stay.

Personally, I'm undecided about that. It seems a reasonable topic for discussion to me.

[Andy74]

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I know Andy you have backed Pat Fenlon to the hilt but can I ask you a serious question - would you say we are an enjoyable team to watch?

Would you also agree that you can win football matches playing a much better style of football?

In my opinion there are too many games like the Partick Thistle game where we have won but have played awful eye bleeding football.

Yeah we are sometimes. I think we lacked wide and creative players after Wotrherspoon and Cairney lost their form and welooked better when Harris was around.

We've also looked fine this year in quite a few of the games though I'm sure most of the more vocal members on here didn't see them.

The Partick game was pretty brutal but we are having a laugh if we think we will play well every week regardless of who is manager.

Yes you can win playing a more expansive style, you can also lose.

I think Fenlon has shown over his career he knows how to get the teams he has to win football matches.

I've watched Hibs now for over 30 yrs, most here will beat me on that front but my time so far tells me having a debtate about HOW we win games is mental. I'd love to win games with passing, fast football every week, it can't always happen though. I've seen Hibs teams keep trying to play that way and get nothing and we'd have given something then to have a bit more about us in terms of being hard to beat.

Take John Hughes - loved us to pass the ball, we didn't have another option, we started losing games and we wanted him gone.

Pat for me about gets the right balance and I think we will improve as an attacking team as we go on.

The thought of taking a risk on another manager now just in case he can get us attacking a bit more makes me quite nervous.

[Andy74]

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I want a manager whose main aim is greater than making us a difficult team to beat. That approach is unlikely to see us near the top of the league by the end of the season, so, lifting the Scottish cup is the only certain result which would merit a new contract. Personally, I think he will be away at the end of the season.

Take the last 9 league games, that approach over the season would get us 63 points. Last 12, 66 points. Last 15, 66 points.

We've a bit to go to carry this on longer term but when you say unlikely - how do you get that?

Great stuff when we are going to ask a manager to do what none has done in 111 years to justify his job. What nonsense.

[--------]

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I was just thinking off the back of our shroud defensive display against Celtic in which Pat set us up to be hard to beat and it paid off. Personally, I have nothing but full credit to Pat Fenlon for Saturdays performance against a better team where we battled and didn't let them play their game. it's just what we have to do just now, against them, unfortunately. Every team in the Premiership should follow our example when it comes to playing Celtic.
It got me thinking about Pat, and his last season of his contract. The majority of us are not happy with the way we have been playing football under Fenlon (Celtic being the only notable exception where it is appropriate to play that type of game IMO), and would rather see someone who subscribes to the Hibernian philosophy of fast-paced, creative attacking football at the helm.

In regards to this years League Cup, we have a very good chance of getting our hands on the trophy, with the main threat already eliminated, it could be a shout, especially given Pat's pedigree when it comes to tournaments.

My question is this - if we were to win a trophy this season under Pat, would you feel obliged to give him more time, despite the fact that a lot of us have already made our minds up about him?

For me personally, I think a trophy would more than merit him staying on and really getting to instil his philosophies and beliefs in our club, he would earn the right to drive on the club, as it would show that his approach can pay off. However, I'm just not sure that I believe in him enough when it comes to managing this club, or buy into his policies. I'm far from convinced that he knows when to attack, and when to play football, and when to dig deep( or make a sub!). His approach to football has left me wanting for more.

This is not to say that he can't improve the more control he has over the proceedings our club, but so far, he's not shown enough potential for me to think this is achievable (we have very rarely attacked under him, I can't remember many counter attacks with speed and energy during his tenure, for example.)

I like his attitude to working hard together as a team, his recruitment policy has mostly been great, if I'm honest, and he's been bringing through youth and getting rid if the billybigboots culture that was at our club for many years, but tactically, when it comes to what happens on the park, I'm not convinced.

So there's good and bad, but I would like to see other people's opinions on the matter.

Would a cup win be enough to keep him?

Quarter-finals and a game against our derby rivals doesn't translate into "a very good chance" to me.

I've no problems with folks being optimistic, but on these boards optimism of that sort tends to be followed up by the manager and team being flayed alive on the message boards if they don't go through.

Last time I looked, there were another 7 teams in the draw, and Hibs aren't obviously superior to most (any?) of them.

We've just drawn with the League leaders (very unlucky not to beat them) with the team showing plenty of guts and determination (an no little skill).

So let's all start picking away at the old sore of whether the manager should be allowed to get on with his job.

Cannae just enjoy the result, eh?

[Jim44]

Nonsense to you maybe but not to me. I thought this was a question of opinion. In my opinion, his approach to the game will not amass enough points over the rest of the season. I think we will lose quite a few and draw quite a few I think we are a terrible team to watch and in my opinion, nothing less than something out of the ordinary like a SC win, will change my wish to see the back of him. If the thread is not about opinion, but about what you think will actually happen, then I suppose his negative approach might get him a new one year contract. I repeat and hope and think he will slip quietly out the door in May.

[jeffers]

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Nonsense to you maybe but not to me. I thought this was a question of opinion. In my opinion, his approach to the game will not amass enough points over the rest of the season. I think we will lose quite a few and draw quite a few I think we are a terrible team to watch and in my opinion, nothing less than something out of the ordinary like a SC win, will change my wish to see the back of him. If the thread is not about opinion, but about what you think will actually happen, then I suppose his negative approach might get him a new one year contract. I repeat and hope and think he will slip quietly out the door in May.

Totally agree with all of that. I still feel under Fenlon we are only ever one game away from a shocking result.

[Andy74]

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Totally agree with all of that. I still feel under Fenlon we are only ever one game away from a shocking result.

Why aren't the stats showing that up to now ?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Top six is the minimum requirement. If we are not comfortably in that position by the turn of the year I can't see him getting another shot at the transfer window.

[jeffers]

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Why aren't the stats showing that up to now ?

Why would the stats show that ? I said I feel under him we are only ever one game away from a shocking result. It was only 3 league games ago we lost by 3 to Inverness and could quite easily have lost by 5 or 6 by all accounts.

I have been to every home game this season, of them I quite enjoyed the St Mirren game and the games against Stranraer and Celtic on Saturday. The rest of the games I have been bored stiff by his negative football.

[Andy74]

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Why would the stats show that ? I said I feel under him we are only ever one game away from a shocking result. It was only 3 league games ago we lost by 3 to Inverness and could quite easily have lost by 5 or 6 by all accounts.

I have been to every home game this season, of them I quite enjoyed the St Mirren game and the games against Stranraer and Celtic on Saturday. The rest of the games I have been bored stiff by his negative football.

So we are really three away from a shocking result?

[jeffers]

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So we are really three away from a shocking result?

I'm pretty sure you know full well what I meant.

[Franck Stanton]

Whilst watching the game on BT Sport yesterday, had to laugh when one of the guest commentators when speaking of the pressure Fenlon had recently been under stated that he was impressed by the manner in which it was handled by the Club, Players and Fans. He also went on to say that they didn't make a big deal of it and were not shouting for the managers head. Obviously isn't a reader of .Net now is he.

[Speedy]

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