Pat Fenlon - What would it take to keep him?

[SMAXXA]

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I think we're a bit quick to forget the scale of the task pat faced when he arrived. He's achieved the initial objectives of

1. Getting rid of the deadwood
2. Changing our culture
3. Make us fight as a unit

It's now time to kick on and

4. Achieve a good league finish (4th or higher)
5. Start playing more entertaining football
6. Give hearts a good pasting
7. Win a trophy

He's archived the first half of the list, albeit with a coupe of disastrous results along the way. It's taken a couple of years which I reckon is reasonable. I'm happy to give him more time if he achieves 2 or 3 of the points on the second half of objectives.

He's making steady progress and has proven to be a decent bloke who genuinely cares. Too much of a risk to change again at the end of the season I'd say. So long as it's made clear that the entertainment needs to improve

Hasnt he pretty much achieved all his targets then so far. Gradual progression just it as quick as some would believe is realistic.

lets not forget, despite he results getting to 2 Scottish cup finals has brought some much needed cash into the club which has allowed him to bring in the quality he has this season. Now it's starting to settle down a bit I think we will kick on, albeit with some failings on the way.

[Sir David Gray]

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I think we're a bit quick to forget the scale of the task pat faced when he arrived. He's achieved the initial objectives of

1. Getting rid of the deadwood
2. Changing our culture
3. Make us fight as a unit

It's now time to kick on and

4. Achieve a good league finish (4th or higher)
5. Start playing more entertaining football
6. Give hearts a good pasting
7. Win a trophy

He's archived the first half of the list, albeit with a coupe of disastrous results along the way. It's taken a couple of years which I reckon is reasonable. I'm happy to give him more time if he achieves 2 or 3 of the points on the second half of objectives.

He's making steady progress and has proven to be a decent bloke who genuinely cares. Too much of a risk to change again at the end of the season I'd say. So long as it's made clear that the entertainment needs to improve

You've hit the nail on the head for me in your first sentence.

The club was an absolute mess when Calderwood left and we were in serious danger of being relegated that season and I think that is sometimes overlooked by a lot of people.

Things haven't been great at times under Fenlon and it was disappointing last season, considering how well we started but we saw a massive improvement on the year before and this season, I think we are seeing another step forward.

I don't think Fenlon is anywhere near as bad as some people make him out to be and I believe he does have the club's best interests at heart.

I hope we do well this season and I would be more than happy if he does enough to earn an extension to his contract.

[147lothian]

Some people seem have forgotten that one year we never got religated because Hamilton were really ***** the next because Dunfermline were really shyyyyte, thats how bad we were before Fenlon came in and its the extent of the task that he was faced with, also just because we have a fantastic fan base doesn't mean PF got a fantastic budget, Fenlon could only dream of being to attract a player that can demand a salary of 5.5k a week like Goodwillie does at dundee united

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I still wonder why there are so many "football managers" on here who know exactly what was wrong and how it should have been addressed yet have never managed a football team. Strange one to me.

If people didn't state their opinions on forums such as this they wouldn't last long.

[Beefster]

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Some people seem have forgotten that one year we never got religated because Hamilton were really ***** the next because Dunfermline were really shyyyyte, thats how bad we were before Fenlon came in and its the extent of the task that he was faced with, also just because we have a fantastic fan base doesn't mean PF got a fantastic budget, Fenlon could only dream of being to attract a player that can demand a salary of 5.5k a week like Goodwillie does at dundee united

Dundee United are decreasing their wage bill and did so over the summer, irrespective of how much of Goodwillie's wages they are paying. It just means they pumped more into one player than the three or four they actually need.

On the other hand, Dundee United could only dream of shelling out £200k on a new striker or recruiting a fair number of players from established SPL clubs and giving them an increase in salary. Some of the arguments in Fenlon's defence have some substance. Any arguments about his budget in relation to the vast majority of the SPL outside Celtic don't.

[IWasThere2016]

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Some people seem have forgotten that one year we never got religated because Hamilton were really ***** the next because Dunfermline were really shyyyyte, thats how bad we were before Fenlon came in and its the extent of the task that he was faced with, also just because we have a fantastic fan base doesn't mean PF got a fantastic budget, Fenlon could only dream of being to attract a player that can demand a salary of 5.5k a week like Goodwillie does at dundee united

There is no way on this earth that DUFC are paying £5.5k a week for Goodwillie.

Arabs paid £2k a week of Webster's c. £15k a week to Der Hun - and I would make an educated guess it's £2k for Goodwillie also.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Using your logic, the only folk in the media qualified to speak about football are the ones who are ex-managers.

I've never been a politician or run the country but I still feel able to give an opinion on where they go wrong.

No, that is not what I said. I said that people feel they know better how to manage a team than people who are qualified to do it. I personally would always prefer a professional to an amateur.

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I managed a team and in my first season won the league cup So i'm more qualified than you!!!!

Totally agree. I am not qualified to manage a football team at all. Just the same as the vast majority of people on here

[Lucius Apuleius]

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If people didn't state their opinions on forums such as this they wouldn't last long.

Good.

There is a difference between having an opinion, in my opinion, and slating a professional for doing a job that you are not qualified for.

[Captain Trips]

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I think we're a bit quick to forget the scale of the task pat faced when he arrived. He's achieved the initial objectives of

1. Getting rid of the deadwood
2. Changing our culture
3. Make us fight as a unit

It's now time to kick on and

4. Achieve a good league finish (4th or higher)
5. Start playing more entertaining football
6. Give hearts a good pasting
7. Win a trophy

He's archived the first half of the list, albeit with a coupe of disastrous results along the way. It's taken a couple of years which I reckon is reasonable. I'm happy to give him more time if he achieves 2 or 3 of the points on the second half of objectives.

He's making steady progress and has proven to be a decent bloke who genuinely cares. Too much of a risk to change again at the end of the season I'd say. So long as it's made clear that the entertainment needs to improve

Nobody forgets and 2yrs on that is still used as an excuse. We should be well passed that now but arguably we are still just difficult to beat apparently. PF needs compared to managers whom where up fighting for 3rd or 4th not CC.

It all seems to go back to CC, it shouldnt have been too hard to be a better manager than CC should it? CC isnt a marker and just because we are doing better doesnt mean its acceptable.

There has been progress and IMO it is all rather stagnant.

[hibbydog]

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Nobody forgets and 2yrs on that is still used as an excuse. We should be well passed that now but arguably we are still just difficult to beat apparently. PF needs compared to managers whom where up fighting for 3rd or 4th not CC.

It all seems to go back to CC, it shouldnt have been too hard to be a better manager than CC should it? CC isnt a marker and just because we are doing better doesnt mean its acceptable.

There has been progress and IMO it is all rather stagnant.

It depends on what you're expectations are. I think we should be second in the league and getting a shout in one if the cups, but I'm prepared to accept that we aren't going to get there overnight.

But yes, 2 years is a decent period to address the mess. We now need to kick on and improve the style of football/ league position / pump hearts a couple of times.

So pats made steady, modest, incremental improvement but the jury's still out.

Opinions eh?!

[LioNeilMessi]

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There is no way on this earth that DUFC are paying £5.5k a week for Goodwillie.

Arabs paid £2k a week of Webster's c. £15k a week to Der Hun - and I would make an educated guess it's £2k for Goodwillie also.

I don't have a source on hand but I think it's pretty well known that Utd are paying half of Goodwillie's wage, which is at least 10k at Blackburn. Sale of Russell in the Summer and a bunch of their players leaving the club make £5.5k a week entirely possible, although perhaps not sensible.

[PatHead]

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I don't have a source on hand but I think it's pretty well known that Utd are paying half of Goodwillie's wage, which is at least 10k at Blackburn. Sale of Russell in the Summer and a bunch of their players leaving the club make £5.5k a week entirely possible, although perhaps not sensible.

Dundee Utd are definitely not paying £5.5k a week for Goodwillie (from a very good source though I doubt he can compete with a Hibs.net FACT). I can also tell you that a lot of Goodwillie's wages from Blackburn were depending on number of appearances, goals etc so it may not be as high as £10k per week. The majority of the Jonny Russell money went to reducing debt which means Dundee Utd are doing well financially just now, hence they turned down £400k for the young centre half. They would not ruin all that just to get Goodwillie back. It was still a good bit of business though

[LioNeilMessi]

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Dundee Utd are definitely not paying £5.5k a week for Goodwillie (from a very good source though I doubt he can compete with a Hibs.net FACT). I can also tell you that a lot of Goodwillie's wages from Blackburn were depending on number of appearances, goals etc so it may not be as high as £10k per week. The majority of the Jonny Russell money went to reducing debt which means Dundee Utd are doing well financially just now, hence they turned down £400k for the young centre half. They would not ruin all that just to get Goodwillie back. It was still a good bit of business though

My source isn't even a hibs.net FACT, the Goodwillie signing sparked a bit of an argument amongst some United fans I worked with over the summer (is he worth the 5k a week etc etc), so my sources probably originates from a DUFC.net FACT

If your guy is right and he is on a reasonable wage then I would agree it is good business.

[147lothian]

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There is no way on this earth that DUFC are paying £5.5k a week for Goodwillie.

Arabs paid £2k a week of Webster's c. £15k a week to Der Hun - and I would make an educated guess it's £2k for Goodwillie also.

DUFC are reducing their wage bill like everyone else in the SPL, thats a fact, but I remember, reading that when he signed his 4 year contract with Blackburn Rovers, the agreement was that DUFC would pay half his wages and that he was on 11k

[GreenPJ]

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Good.

There is a difference between having an opinion, in my opinion, and slating a professional for doing a job that you are not qualified for.

On that basis its always wrong for a manager to be sacked because of fan pressure?

[Keith_M]

I went to the Bakers today and got two steak Pies. When I got them home, I discovered the meat wasn't properly cooked and the crust had mould on it.

I decided that, as someone who has never spent the years required to train as a Baker and having no qualifications in the subject, it wasn't right for me to criticise. So, I just ate them.

[Emerald]

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I went to the Bakers today and got two steak Pies. When I got them home, I discovered the meat wasn't properly cooked and the crust had mould on it.

I decided that, as someone who has never spent the years required to train as a Baker and having no qualifications in the subject, it wasn't right for me to criticise. So, I just ate them.

At least your pies came in the team colours then

[Keith_M]

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At least your pies came in the team colours then

Naw, it was blue mould. Quite tasty though

[Lucius Apuleius]

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I went to the Bakers today and got two steak Pies. When I got them home, I discovered the meat wasn't properly cooked and the crust had mould on it.

I decided that, as someone who has never spent the years required to train as a Baker and having no qualifications in the subject, it wasn't right for me to criticise. So, I just ate them.

Quite rightly so. However if you don't see the difference in this scenario which is objective compared to the subjective, in my opinion, of the football scenario then you deserve to be eating mould pies. :-). Sure hope it wasn't one of Lindleys pies.

[Miguel]

If we beat Hearts in QF, finish top six, avoid any more humiliating results and show genuine signs of progress, I would keep him, but anything short of that...