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View Poll Results: Should Scotland be an independent country?

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  • Yes

    395 71.43%
  • No

    131 23.69%
  • Undecided

    27 4.88%
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  1. #11611
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Out of interest, which part of running the country do you feel has been neglected whilst they grandstand over referendums?

    I accept that the Scottish government has areas where they could do much better, but do you honestly feel that the most important thing that can happen to improve those areas is for SNP politicians to focus a wee bit harder?

    The biggest improvement that could be made to schools, hospitals etc would be for them to have more money to spend from tax receipts and people will have strong opinions on how that money can be raised
    .
    They were given millions to build a new kids hospital in Edinburgh. It's sitting empty unable to be used costing millions of taxpayers cash for nothing.


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  3. #11612
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    They were given millions to build a new kids hospital in Edinburgh. It's sitting empty unable to be used costing millions of taxpayers cash for nothing.
    We were given millions? Lucky us.

    Itís a building project that has run over budget and over time. Happens in all parts of the UK.


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  4. #11613
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    They were given millions to build a new kids hospital in Edinburgh. It's sitting empty unable to be used costing millions of taxpayers cash for nothing.
    Why has the handover/opening ben delayed? Who's at fault?

    If you take your car to the garage to be repaired and they say it'll take 2 days but it ends up taking a week, is that your fault?

  5. #11614
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    They were given millions to build a new kids hospital in Edinburgh. It's sitting empty unable to be used costing millions of taxpayers cash for nothing.
    Would the school have been built on time and for budget if independence wasnít a hot topic? Would HS2 and the 30bn overspend have been avoided if the UK government wasnít focussed on Brexit? Questions should be asked and a review take place into the sick kids hospital (as well as HS2 and any project that has a vast overspend and delay). To try and link it to Indyref2 is tenuous to say the least.

  6. #11615
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Would the school have been built on time and for budget if independence wasnít a hot topic? Would HS2 and the 30bn overspend have been avoided if the UK government wasnít focussed on Brexit? Questions should be asked and a review take place into the sick kids hospital (as well as HS2 and any project that has a vast overspend and delay). To try and link it to Indyref2 is tenuous to say the least.
    More pathetic than tenuous I'd say.

  7. #11616
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    More pathetic than tenuous I'd say.
    But surely if they had just concentrated more on the day job?


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  8. #11617
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    More pathetic than tenuous I'd say.
    What's pathetic is the multi million pound hospital sitting empty and costing the taxpayer a vast fortune . People pointing it out isnt the problem

  9. #11618
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    What's pathetic is the multi million pound hospital sitting empty and costing the taxpayer a vast fortune . People pointing it out isnt the problem
    Who's fault is it? Have you made any effort to find out or do you prefer to automatically blame the SG/SNP?
    Last edited by Peevemor; 15-01-2020 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #11619
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Who's fault is it? Hve you made any effort to find out or do you prefer to automatically blame the SG/SNP?
    OK who is ultimately responsible for the project ?

  11. #11620
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    I guess il be in the minority that's glad it's not happening in the near future. Maybe we can just get on with life this year and the SNP can just get on with running the country without spending 24/7 grandstanding about referendums
    Hear hear! Don't bet on it though. Nicola has to keep the pot boiling for fear of apathy creeping in.
    Also there is a possibility Brexit will bring good things in time in terms of jobs, industry etc and she needs to grasp her opportunity before that happens.

  12. #11621
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    What's pathetic is the multi million pound hospital sitting empty and costing the taxpayer a vast fortune . People pointing it out isnt the problem
    Is the HS2 overspend and delay because the UK government are focussed on Brexit?

  13. #11622
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    OK who is ultimately responsible for the project ?
    You can't answer my question can you?

  14. #11623
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Hear hear! Don't bet on it though. Nicola has to keep the pot boiling for fear of apathy creeping in.
    Also there is a possibility Brexit will bring good things in time in terms of jobs, industry etc and she needs to grasp her opportunity before that happens.
    In about 60 years or something the last I heard.

  15. #11624
    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    OK who is ultimately responsible for the project ?
    I'd say the board of NHS Lothian?

  16. #11625
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I'd say the board of NHS Lothian?
    I think you'll find, after an expensive public enquiry, that nobody is to blame. That's what they usually decide anyway.

  17. #11626
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Is the HS2 overspend and delay because the UK government are focussed on Brexit?
    Don't tell him about crossrail. 👷


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  18. #11627
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Hear hear! Don't bet on it though. Nicola has to keep the pot boiling for fear of apathy creeping in.
    Also there is a possibility Brexit will bring good things in time in terms of jobs, industry etc and she needs to grasp her opportunity before that happens.
    Dream on. The government's own forecasts are bad and all the independent forecasts are bad. You have to go to the economic equivalent of the climate change deniers to get an upbeat outlook. And any economic gains from Brexit are going to be via slashing workers' rights and environmental protections, so even if you're clutching at a growth straw, it's not going to have any industrial jobs attached to it.
    Last edited by JeMeSouviens; 15-01-2020 at 10:55 AM.

  19. #11628
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    If a late hospital construction project is all unionists can point to as the SNP failing then I think it must be doing a pretty fine job in government which probably explains its popularity.


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  20. #11629
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    As long as public support for independence remains in the balance we will continue having votes on it until either we leave or the UK government does a Canada and introduces federalism (as they did for Quebec). That won't happen so independence it is.
    Canada already had a federal structure. The Quebecois eventually lost interest in independence (or at least, the tide has gone out a long way for now). The key thing was a younger generation came along post-1994 that couldn't be bothered with it and in more recent times, a breakaway from the main indy party, the PQ, called CAQ (coalition for Quebec's future) came along that promised to be all the things the PQ were but without holding a new ref.

    So I guess the same thing could happen here which is what Unionists hope for and why they are attempting to stall for as much time as they can. There are stark differences between Quebec sovereigntists and Scottish nats though: theirs is much more of an ethnic/language thing, they have never been an independent country and they are not surrounded by similar sized successful states existing in happy mutual co-operation.

  21. #11630
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Why has the handover/opening ben delayed? Who's at fault?

    If you take your car to the garage to be repaired and they say it'll take 2 days but it ends up taking a week, is that your fault?
    Nope - probably the SNP's.

  22. #11631
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    I think you'll find, after an expensive public enquiry, that nobody is to blame. That's what they usually decide anyway.
    Dark, but true.

    I guess my point was things don't always have to eventually end up as the responsibility of 'the government'. I'd bet the folk on the board of NHS Lothian are well paid and able of taking responsibility for the actions of the thing they operate.

  23. #11632
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    OK who is ultimately responsible for the project ?
    The guys clumping about in hard hats and high viz jackets who built it. I'm no SNPite but you can't hang it on the government.

  24. #11633
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    The guys clumping about in hard hats and high viz jackets who built it. I'm no SNPite but you can't hang it on the government.
    Aha, just as we all suspected!


  25. #11634
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    So to be clear issues with the a Scottish NHS like £1.4m a month for a hospital that canít be used or children dying due to water infections in Glasgow or NHS Taysides financial meltdowns are nothing to do with the Scottish Government?

    If so are we applying the same thought process to the NHS Scotlandís relatively better A&E performance? So nothing to do with the SNP as well?

    Is this the same thought process that dismisses the PISA eduction ratings as not relevant when they show Scotland lagging England in a number of areas and declining performance in key subjects?

  26. #11635
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    So to be clear issues with the a Scottish NHS like £1.4m a month for a hospital that canít be used or children dying due to water infections in Glasgow or NHS Taysides financial meltdowns are nothing to do with the Scottish Government?

    If so are we applying the same thought process to the NHS Scotlandís relatively better A&E performance? So nothing to do with the SNP as well?

    Is this the same thought process that dismisses the PISA eduction ratings as not relevant when they show Scotland lagging England in a number of areas and declining performance in key subjects?
    I don't think anyone is saying that the hospital fiasco is nothing to do with the Scottish government - as taxpayers we have all been let down by the project, those with sick children will have been let down even more and the government of the day needs to be able to stand up to scrutiny over what has gone wrong.

    Where I think we disagree is that I don't think the problems related to this project can be readily laid at the foot of the SNP's habit of debating the merits of independence or pushing for a 2nd referendum. The project didn't slide into chaos because nobody in the SNP was paying attention, as is often suggested - lazily, I think - by unionists.

    I honestly don't know what went on with the hospital. Does anyone yet? I want answers as much as anyone and I don't care who the government who are ultimately responsible for it are.

  27. #11636
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    So to be clear issues with the a Scottish NHS like £1.4m a month for a hospital that canít be used or children dying due to water infections in Glasgow or NHS Taysides financial meltdowns are nothing to do with the Scottish Government?

    If so are we applying the same thought process to the NHS Scotlandís relatively better A&E performance? So nothing to do with the SNP as well?

    Is this the same thought process that dismisses the PISA eduction ratings as not relevant when they show Scotland lagging England in a number of areas and declining performance in key subjects?
    By all accounts governments, and the SNP, should be scrutinised and held to account. I thought the last page of so was in relation to a poster claiming the sick kids overspend and delay was because of Indyref2. He/she then ignored me asking them twice if the HS2 (for example) was because the UK government was too focussed on Brexit.

  28. #11637
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I don't think anyone is saying that the hospital fiasco is nothing to do with the Scottish government - as taxpayers we have all been let down by the project, those with sick children will have been let down even more and the government of the day needs to be able to stand up to scrutiny over what has gone wrong.

    Where I think we disagree is that I don't think the problems related to this project can be readily laid at the foot of the SNP's habit of debating the merits of independence or pushing for a 2nd referendum. The project didn't slide into chaos because nobody in the SNP was paying attention, as is often suggested - lazily, I think - by unionists.

    I honestly don't know what went on with the hospital. Does anyone yet? I want answers as much as anyone and I don't care who the government who are ultimately responsible for it are.
    It's not lazy, it's deliberate political messaging, presumably tested in focus groups.

  29. #11638
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    What's pathetic is the multi million pound hospital sitting empty and costing the taxpayer a vast fortune . People pointing it out isnt the problem
    No, but saying it's evidence that Scotland couldn't function as an independent country, or that the SNP are incompetent is. As others have pointed out, if you employ somebody to do a job for you and they make an arse of it, is that your fault or their fault? I'm sure the Scottish government are doing everything they can to get the problems sorted, if not then yes that's cause for criticism ... but to blame them for incompetence by the construction company is ridiculous.

  30. #11639
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Who's fault is it? Have you made any effort to find out or do you prefer to automatically blame the SG/SNP?
    How did the Queensferry Crossing get on.

    J

  31. #11640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I don't think anyone is saying that the hospital fiasco is nothing to do with the Scottish government - as taxpayers we have all been let down by the project, those with sick children will have been let down even more and the government of the day needs to be able to stand up to scrutiny over what has gone wrong.

    Where I think we disagree is that I don't think the problems related to this project can be readily laid at the foot of the SNP's habit of debating the merits of independence or pushing for a 2nd referendum. The project didn't slide into chaos because nobody in the SNP was paying attention, as is often suggested - lazily, I think - by unionists.

    I honestly don't know what went on with the hospital. Does anyone yet? I want answers as much as anyone and I don't care who the government who are ultimately responsible for it are.
    Got ya, appreciate the response

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