Stevenson at right back

[matty_f]

Does anyone know our 'goals against' record with Lewis at right back, and what the average goals against per match is?

I'm not making Lewis a scapegoat, far from it - he's one of the few players who rarely lets us down. Instead I'm looking for statistical evidence to show how bad a decision by the manager it is to persist with Lewis at right back.

[SMAXXA]

Can't think of any goals we have conceded this season that were a result of the RB channe Lewis has played? Not saying there isn't any but i can't think. Saturdays as example was a Nelson Williams mistake, poor CH play then a good finish from BM

[matty_f]

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Can't think of any goals we have conceded this season that were a result of the RB channe Lewis has played? Not saying there isn't any but i can't think. Saturdays as example was a Nelson Williams mistake, poor CH play then a good finish from BM

The cross came from the right hand side after Lewis missed a tackle in-field. The point I'm making isn't that Lewis is individually responsible for the goals we concede but rather the overall impact on the defence when he plays right back.

This is not about criticising Lewis, far from it.

[LancsHibs]

Stevenson is an appalling RB, yet he has a fan club on this site where he can take no criticism.

For the record I like LS and think he's a great player to have to play/cover on the left, in fact I hope he plays LB on Monday.

I don't blame LS though, he's the type of guy that will do whatever he's asked and give it his best, blame is with Pat Fenlon for a; persistently playing him at RB b; not providing sufficient cover in this position when our No1 RB is a major doubt that he will ever pay again or be up to standard.

LS good wee player, a RB he is not!

[matty_f]

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Stevenson is an appalling RB, yet he has a fan club on this site where he can take no criticism.

For the record I like LS and think he's a great player to have to play/cover on the left, in fact I hope he plays LB on Monday.

I don't blame LS though, he's the type of guy that will do whatever he's asked and give it his best, blame is with Pat Fenlon for a; persistently playing him at RB b; not providing sufficient cover in this position when our No1 RB is a major doubt that he will ever pay again or be up to standard.

LS good wee player, a RB he is not!

I agree. Lewis rarely lets us down but he's never a right back. He deserves credit for getting on with it whenever he's asked to play there but imho it's clear that it doesn't work.

[Aldo]

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Stevenson is an appalling RB, yet he has a fan club on this site where he can take no criticism. For the record I like LS and think he's a great player to have to play/cover on the left, in fact I hope he plays LB on Monday. I don't blame LS though, he's the type of guy that will do whatever he's asked and give it his best, blame is with Pat Fenlon for a; persistently playing him at RB b; not providing sufficient cover in this position when our No1 RB is a major doubt that he will ever pay again or be up to standard. LS good wee player, a RB he is not!

Lancs, you know that and I know that yet Pat persists in playing him there. That for me leaves him in a hiding to nothing.

Lewis like any other player deserves praise when playing well and criticism when playing bad however Lewis like Hanlon seem to take it in turns to get it tight from folk on here when others seem to be immune to it.

That unfortunately will never change.

[LancsHibs]

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Lancs, you know that and I know that yet Pat persists in playing him there. That for me leaves him in a hiding to nothing.

Lewis like any other player deserves praise when playing well and criticism when playing bad however Lewis like Hanlon seem to take it in turns to get it tight from folk on here when others seem to be immune to it.

That unfortunately will never change.

I didn't know that you knew that!!

[Aldo]

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I didn't know that you knew that!!

😉 good one

[SMAXXA]

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The cross came from the right hand side after Lewis missed a tackle in-field. The point I'm making isn't that Lewis is individually responsible for the goals we concede but rather the overall impact on the defence when he plays right back.

This is not about criticising Lewis, far from it.

Yeah I understand that but that's a tackle / foul that he could have made on the left aswell though, I'm not sure what can be attributed to him as a result of playing on the right though, other than the obvious he's a lefty and not naturally right footed.

i agree he's not a RB but not sure I'm convinced it's as big an issue as some might think.

i think we should be more aware of the nightmare Nelson had and McGivern by the looks of things on the highlights also.

[matty_f]

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Yeah I understand that but that's a tackle / foul that he could have made on the left aswell though, I'm not sure what can be attributed to him as a result of playing on the right though, other than the obvious he's a lefty and not naturally right footed.

i agree he's not a RB but not sure I'm convinced it's as big an issue as some might think.

i think we should be more aware of the nightmare Nelson had and McGivern by the looks of things on the highlights also.

That was why I was looking for stats. I think we concede a huge amount of goals when Lewis plays right back but it would be interesting to see whether the evidence supports that view.

[hibee_girl]

I think the only game you could really point the finger at Stevenson for losing goals at RB is the Malmo game (if he played there, I've blocked a lot from my memory!)

He has been pretty solid at RB for us since the Dundee Utd game

[B.H.F.C]

The whole team suffers when he plays there, more so when have the ball. Look at the Stmirren game when Maybury overlapped Robertson, put the ball across and we scored. Similar thing on Saturday where Stevenson goes past Stanton who plays the ball to him. Instead of the ball going across he has to try and cut back on to his left foot, loses the ball, and the chance is gone.

When Mullen got hooked in the first half of the Dundee Utd game and Lewis had to go to right back you only needed to see his reaction to see how he really feels about playing there.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stevenson on the left has mostly done a very good job when starting or coming on. He makes mistakes and is slaughtered like no other player when he does. Yet we saw on Saturday our wonderful keeper make another howler that resulted in a goal, but he's the best we've had since whoever?

And Nelson?????????

Stevenson on the right does not work for one reason, he cuts inside all the time. He plays balls into the congested midfield, and the pitch is made narrower because of his one sided play. He wont get forward on the right the way he does on the left, and the team is very unbalanced with him on the right.

I never rated him a few seasons ago, but he won me over during the last couple of seasons. I'd say he's been worth his contract renewal for his performances during that time, but Fenlon is hanging him out to dry by putting him right back.

He will get stuck in on the right, and he will defend reasonably well, but as a unit we will be poorer with him there, and the defense won't get forward as much to support the midfield and play won't flow from the right hand side as much as it would if he was playing on the left.

[BarneyK]

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I think the only game you could really point the finger at Stevenson for losing goals at RB is the Malmo game (if he played there, I've blocked a lot from my memory!)

He has been pretty solid at RB for us since the Dundee Utd game

Lewis started on the right but switched to the left when McPake had to go off following the first goal. Mullen played on the right for goals 2-7.

[hibsbollah]

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That was why I was looking for stats. I think we concede a huge amount of goals when Lewis plays right back but it would be interesting to see whether the evidence supports that view.

No stats on goals conceded, but anecdotally he's had two or possibly three good performances at RB this season. Im sure on the player ratings thread most people had him MOTM or thereabouts. Memory might be letting me down but possibly Motherwell at home, (1-0 defeat) and definitely the 1-1 draw with Dundee Utd, when he swapped sides with Mullen who was having a mare (McGivern came on and went to left back on 30 mins).

He can play well there IMO. But Fenlon probably wasnt banking on Mullen being as poor as hes been, which is the root of the problem. Assuming Maybury cant do it every week, we do need to sign a right back though.

[hibee_girl]

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The whole team suffers when he plays there, more so when have the ball. Look at the Stmirren game when Maybury overlapped Robertson, put the ball across and we scored. Similar thing on Saturday where Stevenson goes past Stanton who plays the ball to him. Instead of the ball going across he has to try and cut back on to his left foot, loses the ball, and the chance is gone.

When Mullen got hooked in the first half of the Dundee Utd game and Lewis had to go to right back you only needed to see his reaction to see how he really feels about playing there.

Yet he went on to have his best game at RB against Utd

[B.H.F.C]

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Yet he went on to have his best game at RB against Utd

I didn't say that he didn't do well in that game, only that his reaction to being asked to go to right back told its own story.

In that particular game he handled McKay-Steven well. But as I said, the issue with Stevenson at right back is more when we have the ball than when defending IMO.

[EVENTUALLY]

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Stevenson on the left has mostly done a very good job when starting or coming on. He makes mistakes and is slaughtered like no other player when he does. Yet we saw on Saturday our wonderful keeper make another howler that resulted in a goal, but he's the best we've had since whoever?

And Nelson?????????

Stevenson on the right does not work for one reason, he cuts inside all the time. He plays balls into the congested midfield, and the pitch is made narrower because of his one sided play. He wont get forward on the right the way he does on the left, and the team is very unbalanced with him on the right.

I never rated him a few seasons ago, but he won me over during the last couple of seasons. I'd say he's been worth his contract renewal for his performances during that time, but Fenlon is hanging him out to dry by putting him right back.

He will get stuck in on the right, and he will defend reasonably well, but as a unit we will be poorer with him there, and the defense won't get forward as much to support the midfield and play won't flow from the right hand side as much as it would if he was playing on the left.

The right back fiasco is entirely down to Fenlon. David Gold would have provided much a better option in there while gaining first team experience and showing the our crab style midfielders the benefits of playing forward passes. Lewis would have been able to play with greater confidence on his natural left side but heyho its what Fenlon does all the time.... he consistently puts guys on the wrong side of the park and midfielders who revel in side to back passing at a slow tempo making it easy for the oppo to retreat and organise themselves.

[Hibiza]

Clancy a big disappointment, even when fit.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Keenan, Stevenson and there have been others. Over the years players consistently playing when either out of position or needing dropped. It leads me to wonder (and Pat himself not more than 2 weeks ago said that playing LS there upsets the balance of the team) whether it is some bizarre way of a manager saying to Rod look we need to strengthen in this area but this is what you've given me...

For the record my position on LS is supportive - I was saying to Matty_F at the cup game I wondered whether LS would go through his entire Hibs career playing out of position...

[TheFamous1875]

LS is a left-sided central midfielder, isn't he? Can't remember the last time I saw him there! Against Dundee at he end of the season? I thought he played great in that match (granted I had work so had to leave 25 mins in)

I still don't know why Taiwo has not been tested at RB; he's tenacious and quick and works hard. If he has a cross then we're onto a winner. I think he could potentially make the position his own.


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[matty_f]

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No stats on goals conceded, but anecdotally he's had two or possibly three good performances at RB this season. Im sure on the player ratings thread most people had him MOTM or thereabouts. Memory might be letting me down but possibly Motherwell at home, (1-0 defeat) and definitely the 1-1 draw with Dundee Utd, when he swapped sides with Mullen who was having a mare (McGivern came on and went to left back on 30 mins).

He can play well there IMO. But Fenlon probably wasnt banking on Mullen being as poor as hes been, which is the root of the problem. Assuming Maybury cant do it every week, we do need to sign a right back though.

The point I'm making is not about Lewis' contribution or ability, it's whether the defence is weaker when Lewis goes to right back. This could be because his left back replacement causes problems, or there's a positional issue, or some problem communicating between the defence..whatever.

Lewis has had good games at right back individually, but do those good performances equate to a more solid defence?

You could look at how Bamba was played when we used him as a defensive midfielder. Individually he played well but it meant our midfield sat too deep and caused us problems.

[inglisavhibs]

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Yeah I understand that but that's a tackle / foul that he could have made on the left aswell though, I'm not sure what can be attributed to him as a result of playing on the right though, other than the obvious he's a lefty and not naturally right footed.

i agree he's not a RB but not sure I'm convinced it's as big an issue as some might think.

i think we should be more aware of the nightmare Nelson had and McGivern by the looks of things on the highlights also.

It is a huge issue though, one of the many reasons we are toothless in attack against any decent team. How can we threaten down our right hand side with a right back who is left footed and is also slow, added to the problem of playing a central midfielder wide right. We then have two central midfielders, neither of whom ever score a goal and also find it difficult (or maybe can't) get behind the opposition defence and on the left we play with a wide player who again can't beat anybody and is slow. How are we supposed to create with that team.

On the Stevenson issue, I think he does well for what he has in his locker but if you want a Hibs team who will challenge for 2nd place (as we should be) we need better.

[SMAXXA]

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The point I'm making is not about Lewis' contribution or ability, it's whether the defence is weaker when Lewis goes to right back. This could be because his left back replacement causes problems, or there's a positional issue, or some problem communicating between the defence..whatever.

Lewis has had good games at right back individually, but do those good performances equate to a more solid defence?

You could look at how Bamba was played when we used him as a defensive midfielder. Individually he played well but it meant our midfield sat too deep and caused us problems.

Wouldnt the fact we had the best defensive start to a season in x amount of seasons answer your question? With Lewis at RB at times?

[hibsbollah]

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The point I'm making is not about Lewis' contribution or ability, it's whether the defence is weaker when Lewis goes to right back. This could be because his left back replacement causes problems, or there's a positional issue, or some problem communicating between the defence..whatever.

Lewis has had good games at right back individually, but do those good performances equate to a more solid defence?

You could look at how Bamba was played when we used him as a defensive midfielder. Individually he played well but it meant our midfield sat too deep and caused us problems.

I understand your point; my opinion is this season playing him there hasnt weakened the defence, either at right back or collectively.

[TheFamous1875]

I think regardless of how good LS does at RB (I'm a big fan of his), the team's balance is off with him there; he's too one footed to do it seamlessly, and because of this, he can only do what he can with his left, so therefore, he's guaranteed to cut in, and that's very easy pickings for opposing teams to exploit. It'd be easy for you or I to exploit as it's a guarantee!

My outlook (and I'm sure most other people's) on team building is to to play your players to their strengths, and I think Fenlon's approach is to play his players to the best way he think his team should counter the other team's game plan, regardless of his players' strengths or weaknesses, and hope that they get the job done.


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[matty_f]

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Wouldnt the fact we had the best defensive start to a season in x amount of seasons answer your question? With Lewis at RB at times?

Well, no, not really because that presumably removes the 9 (nine) goals shipped to Malmo.
Is it still the best defensive record up til now? We lost 2 goals to Stranraer with Lewis at right back, then 3 at Inverness. That's 14 over four games!

[matty_f]

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I understand your point; my opinion is this season playing him there hasnt weakened the defence, either at right back or collectively.

I get your opinion, it's why I asked if anyone has the stats so we can take opinion out of it and look objectively.

[Tyler Durden]

The bottom line is that we don't appear to have a long term right back solution at the club.

Clancy is never fit, Maybury is 37 and Mullen is apparently not good enough. Surely Fenlon should have known whether Mullen was ready to play in the SPL when signing him.

We could have taken the wages for the latter 2 or Vine/OTJ (players that aren't adding any value to the squad IMO) and offered Tom Hateley a deal. Or surely another RB of a good standard.

Instead we're left with this fiasco of Lewis at RB and hoping that Clancy can get fit and start performing.

Fenlon is responsible.

[hibee_girl]

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Well, no, not really because that presumably removes the 9 (nine) goals shipped to Malmo.
Is it still the best defensive record up til now? We lost 2 goals to Stranraer with Lewis at right back, then 3 at Inverness. That's 14 over four games!

As pointed out by someone earlier in the thread Lewis wasn't at right back for goals 2-7 in the Malmo game at home.

There's also 3 other people in that defence and I'd go as far as to say Nelson has cost us more goals than Stevenson.