A different Perspective - Saturdays loss

[Unseen work]

About Saturday. Against ict who are flying right now and playing very good football. Ben Williams had a nightmare and is probably the most unconvincing iv ever seen him. However the first goal I would say Nelson is to blame as I'm guessing Williams wasn't expecting him to leave it. The Chance we had for heffernan at 1-0 was massive as we would of gained confidence from that and you would bet your house on him normally finishing that, likewise Craig's chance which I actually think was a sitter. Collins was unfortunate not to see his effort creep in too.

Were a team on the way up and learning every game, and against teams such as caley who right now are the best in Scotland it was always going to be difficult, I don't think anyone would of seriously thought we were going to win if they had seen caley this season. I personally think quite a lot of people still consider caley a wee team or bottom 6 team when this is not the case. Also had the sub for zoubir been made at 1-0 which is when fenlon intended it to be it could of made a massive difference.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Too many ifs in there for me. I see the point you're trying to make though.

[Hibrandenburg]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

About Saturday. Against ict who are flying right now and playing very good football. Ben Williams had a nightmare and is probably the most unconvincing iv ever seen him. However the first goal I would say Nelson is to blame as I'm guessing Williams wasn't expecting him to leave it. The Chance we had for heffernan at 1-0 was massive as we would of gained confidence from that and you would bet your house on him normally finishing that, likewise Craig's chance which I actually think was a sitter. Collins was unfortunate not to see his effort creep in too.

Were a team on the way up and learning every game, and against teams such as caley who right now are the best in Scotland it was always going to be difficult, I don't think anyone would of seriously thought we were going to win if they had seen caley this season. I personally think quite a lot of people still consider caley a wee team or bottom 6 team when this is not the case. Also had the sub for zoubir been made at 1-0 which is when fenlon intended it to be it could of made a massive difference.

Oh you're in for it now. The "ICT are a wee team and we should be beating them every week" brigade will be along to give you a kicking any minute now.

[Thecat23]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh you're in for it now. The "ICT are a wee team and we should be beating them every week" brigade will be along to give you a kicking any minute now.

ICT are a good side, but looking at our squad I personally think Hibs should at least give them a game and shouldn't lose 3-0. Sorry if my expectations are too high!!!!

[matty_f]

Although i have to point out that this opinion is based on the limited highlights shown last night, it looked to me that the team were all over the place. I don't think it was purely down to the players not wanting it enough, it looked like we had no idea how to cope with Inverness' tactics or style of play.

Although individual errors cost us, the way we were set up made life very difficult for the players.

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

ICT are a good side, but looking at our squad I personally think Hibs should at least give them a game and shouldn't lose 3-0. Sorry if my expectations are too high!!!!

It was a bad day at the office, against a better team. I get the OP's point, and until the next transfer window, we are limited in options. I think, myself included, that lots of folk are just disappointed that we are still a good way behind Inverness.

[Thecat23]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It was a bad day at the office, against a better team. I get the OP's point, and until the next transfer window, we are limited in options. I think, myself included, that lots of folk are just disappointed that we are still a good way behind Inverness.

We have made something like 9 signings this transfer window, so not sure why we should wait until the next one? We shouldn't be getting dominated by anyone bar Celtic in this league. How many bad days at the office we going to have. When under pressure Pat doesn't seem to know what he's doing and either do our players!!

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We have made something like 9 signings this transfer window, so not sure why we should wait until the next one? We shouldn't be getting dominated by anyone bar Celtic in this league. How many bad days at the office we going to have. When under pressure Pat doesn't seem to know what he's doing and either do our players!!

Unless Im missing something, the window is closed, so we have no option but to wait? I agree that a fully developed Hibs team using our resources to best effect should be able to compete with anyone bar Celtic. The bad day at the office comment relates to us gifting them a goal start which made a hard job even harder. The bummer is that outside Partick away, we have 4 league matches coming up that are highly loseable.

[Thecat23]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Unless Im missing something, the window is closed, so we have no option but to wait? I agree that a fully developed Hibs team using our resources to best effect should be able to compete with anyone bar Celtic. The bad day at the office comment relates to us gifting them a goal start which made a hard job even harder. The bummer is that outside Partick away, we have 4 league matches coming up that are highly loseable.

Sorry I'm meaning we made 9 signings mate so I don't think we need anymore in. Always room from improvement though yeah but I don't think saying its because we need to wait till Jan to improve. Yeah I agree the games coming up are all games sadly that we could lose. But on paper they are all games we Prob should take something from. Exception of the odd loss.

[southsider]

Stevenson at RIGHT back ? wtf was that all about ? Sorry, but have still no faith in Pat.

[Brightside]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Stevenson at RIGHT back ? wtf was that all about ? Sorry, but have still no faith in Pat.

Maybury was injured. Stevenson is our next in line for that position. Until Foster starts getting U20 games playing in that position it will stay that way. I would like to see McGivern, Forster, McPake gettgin more game time at u20 level. But we didnt lose on Sat becuase of Lewis. We lost coz we went out with the wrong formation and the wrong attitide.

[SurferRosa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

About Saturday. Against ict who are flying right now and playing very good football. Ben Williams had a nightmare and is probably the most unconvincing iv ever seen him. However the first goal I would say Nelson is to blame as I'm guessing Williams wasn't expecting him to leave it. The Chance we had for heffernan at 1-0 was massive as we would of gained confidence from that and you would bet your house on him normally finishing that, likewise Craig's chance which I actually think was a sitter. Collins was unfortunate not to see his effort creep in too.

Were a team on the way up and learning every game, and against teams such as caley who right now are the best in Scotland it was always going to be difficult, I don't think anyone would of seriously thought we were going to win if they had seen caley this season. I personally think quite a lot of people still consider caley a wee team or bottom 6 team when this is not the case. Also had the sub for zoubir been made at 1-0 which is when fenlon intended it to be it could of made a massive difference.

Williams called for Nelson to leave it. I know because i heard him shout it. I was close enough to hear. He simply mis-judged the ball which is why it bounced of his chest and straight into the path of Mckay.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

ICT are a good side, but looking at our squad I personally think Hibs should at least give them a game and shouldn't lose 3-0. Sorry if my expectations are too high!!!!

Agree the only team we should be capable of losing 3-0 to in this league is Celtc, no other.

[erin go bragh]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybury was injured. Stevenson is our next in line for that position. Until Foster starts getting U20 games playing in that position it will stay that way. I would like to see McGivern, Forster, McPake gettgin more game time at u20 level. But we didnt lose on Sat becuase of Lewis. We lost coz we went out with the wrong formation and the wrong attitide.

When you play a left sided player on the right it unbalances the team . Im not having a go at Lewis but when Maybury plays ,the team has a much better shape .
Why is the right back from the under 20s not getting a chance to play ?


Ggtth

[Unseen work]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Williams called for Nelson to leave it. I know because i heard him shout it. I was close enough to hear. He simply mis-judged the ball which is why it bounced of his chest and straight into the path of Mckay.

Apologies never realised that's the case. He looked so unprepared for it especially if he shouted keepers.

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry I'm meaning we made 9 signings mate so I don't think we need anymore in. Always room from improvement though yeah but I don't think saying its because we need to wait till Jan to improve. Yeah I agree the games coming up are all games sadly that we could lose. But on paper they are all games we Prob should take something from. Exception of the odd loss.

Right, I see what you mean. I agree that having signed nine players, we should be pretty much there. Unfortunately injuries to Harris and Cairney arent ideal for us, and we lack pace throughout the team. If we can scrape a few points up to January, Id be hoping for an attempt to address this, but we may have spent our budget.

[B.H.F.C]

ICT are a good team. They don't play outstanding football but the do the basics very well, work very hard and have a very good striker.

It was just a typical Hibs performance under Fenlon.

[J-C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When you play a left sided player on the right it unbalances the team . Im not having a go at Lewis but when Maybury plays ,the team has a much better shape .
Why is the right back from the under 20s not getting a chance to play ?


Ggtth

Because the right back in the U20's may be Mullen who's shown he isn't anywhere good enough for us yet.

1st goal was a blunder from Williams and in the 2nd he never really covered himself too well either when he flapped badly at a high cross to back post, then the defence were all over the place trying to get the ball out of the box. The 3rd was a mistake by firstly Nelson, who went for a high ball just outside the centre circle, which he missed in spectacular style, the ball bounced to Mackay who ran rings round Hanlon to slot the ball home. Our only real threat was a back header from Meekings to his goalie and 2 glaring misses by Heffernan and Craig.

We keep hearing how this squad of players are some of the best outside of Celtic, as yet we've to see any real proof of this, so far we've gained players from other SPL clubs who should've made us better but so far they've been a massive disappointment apart from maybe Craig. QTJ and Vine have given us absolutely nothing and are a complete waste of a wage, Collins looks a good player but needs support and the ball more often. We need pace in defence and on the flanks, the defence Fenlon has not improve and he refuses to use the pace of Zoubir till it's too late.

[BarneyK]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agree the only team we should be capable of losing 3-0 to in this league is Celtc, no other.

It's possible to be beaten 3-0 by anyone, regardless. When you are talking about 3-0 going on 5 or 6-0 though, something is just not right.

[PeeKay]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's possible to be beaten 3-0 by anyone, regardless. When you are talking about 3-0 going on 5 or 6-0 though, something is just not right.

Yes, but by the same token it could have been 3-3. It wasn't, and neither was it 6-0.

[The Sea-gull]

There are many different persepectives to look at Hibs in right now. Statistics too can be used differently depending on the time frame you use and the way you use them.

For example:-

We have only lost one of the last six SPL games. Or three of the last 13 if you prefer.

In that time, we have won six of these games.

But what about if we add the period last season, mid November - the split. We only won three games, all 1-0 and only one at Easter Road. That takes it to 9 wins from 38. A season's worth of games which would have us relegated.

Pat's stats:- P83 W31 D18 L34. A win ratio of 37%. Not sure if that is really bad compared to others but it seems like it is.

Looking at Hibs under Pat, we have short spells here and there when we get our act together but the pishy periods out weigh the good. Unless he turns things round the other way and the good spells are long with the bad spells being short then he'll not be here beyond the season. Or at least he shouldn't be.

He still deserves time, though not much more (end of season tops), to show he can get us into the top 6 and we shouldn't start calling for his head again after being beaten by a form team who have a good manager and a decent, settled squad. They'll beat many more teams at home this season, even teams who don't have their goalie and defence having a collective off day but as others have said are bound to have a sticky time at some point to

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because the right back in the U20's may be Mullen who's shown he isn't anywhere good enough for us yet.

1st goal was a blunder from Williams and in the 2nd he never really covered himself too well either when he flapped badly at a high cross to back post, then the defence were all over the place trying to get the ball out of the box. The 3rd was a mistake by firstly Nelson, who went for a high ball just outside the centre circle, which he missed in spectacular style, the ball bounced to Mackay who ran rings round Hanlon to slot the ball home. Our only real threat was a back header from Meekings to his goalie and 2 glaring misses by Heffernan and Craig.

We keep hearing how this squad of players are some of the best outside of Celtic, as yet we've to see any real proof of this, so far we've gained players from other SPL clubs who should've made us better but so far they've been a massive disappointment apart from maybe Craig. QTJ and Vine have given us absolutely nothing and are a complete waste of a wage, Collins looks a good player but needs support and the ball more often. We need pace in defence and on the flanks, the defence Fenlon has not improve and he refuses to use the pace of Zoubir till it's too late.

Agree completely I dont think we are anywhere near the 2nd best squad/team in the league. Our unbalanced squad is still the same, lacking in pace and defensive qualities.

[The Sea-gull]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because the right back in the U20's may be Mullen who's shown he isn't anywhere good enough for us yet.

1st goal was a blunder from Williams and in the 2nd he never really covered himself too well either when he flapped badly at a high cross to back post, then the defence were all over the place trying to get the ball out of the box. The 3rd was a mistake by firstly Nelson, who went for a high ball just outside the centre circle, which he missed in spectacular style, the ball bounced to Mackay who ran rings round Hanlon to slot the ball home. Our only real threat was a back header from Meekings to his goalie and 2 glaring misses by Heffernan and Craig.

We keep hearing how this squad of players are some of the best outside of Celtic, as yet we've to see any real proof of this, so far we've gained players from other SPL clubs who should've made us better but so far they've been a massive disappointment apart from maybe Craig. QTJ and Vine have given us absolutely nothing and are a complete waste of a wage, Collins looks a good player but needs support and the ball more often. We need pace in defence and on the flanks, the defence Fenlon has not improve and he refuses to use the pace of Zoubir till it's too late.

The only people I hear that from are people posting on here i.e. Hibs fans. Don't really hear the media and fans of other clubs saying it. Most others seem to rate us as mid-table mediocraty either side of the top 6 and some even think we are worse than that. Put it this way, most clubs fans seem to fancy their chances of beating us in the run up to playing them.

FWIIW I think we have a decent squad of players being managed by someone who is maybe a bit out of his depth/lacking in ideas/positivity and ability to play cohesive attacking football. In terms of us compared to the other teams, when looking at the overall package (starting XI, squad depth, manager, style of play, team spirit) I'd say we are behind ICT, Motherwell, Aberdeen and Dundee United in terms of prospects for the season. After that is where the likes of us and St Johnstone come in and it is all about getting a run togethere, a bit of confidence and a wee bit of luck. The teams I have mentioned are all probably a wee bit better than us for various reasons but they are not uncatchable.

[Borderhibbie76]

Dont get the dundee utd love in on this forum...no way are they same level as ict or motherwell

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Dont get the dundee utd love in on this forum...no way are they same level as ict or motherwell

I cant work these guys out. Sometimes they look great, and some crazy good talent, and then suddenly they look poor. I see them as our main rivals (with St Johnstone) this season.

[Glory Lurker]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh you're in for it now. The "ICT are a wee team and we should be beating them every week" brigade will be along to give you a kicking any minute now.

ICT are​ a wee team and we should be beating them every week!

[Aldo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

ICT are​ a wee team and we should be beating them every week!

Really. They are exactly that. A team. We have no given right to beat anyone regardless of the size of club.

[Glory Lurker]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really. They are exactly that. A team. We have no given right to beat anyone regardless of the size of club.

Okay, I'll maybe give you some of that. However, we should have a given right to expect to beat the likes of ICT. I know that's not how it has ever been up there but that's not good enough in my book. We are nowhere near where we should be.

[andy1875]

I can't stop thinking about Pats interview when he spoke about our lack of desire.

I can stomach losing games, and boy have we done that by the barrow load in the time he and many other managers have been at the helm.

Something is just sitting very uncomfortably with me that we lost a game due to a lack of desire/attitude.

That's just not right in a big big way. Every time I start to feel a bit faith creeping back into my mind with Fenlon, we go and produce one of they Inverness results/aftermath interview.

Very frustrating.

[Aldo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Okay, I'll maybe give you some of that. However, we should have a given right to expect to beat the likes of ICT. I know that's not how it has ever been up there but that's not good enough in my book. We are nowhere near where we should be.

Like I say we have to compete to win football matches and the lack of that and other aspects of our game are lacking.

You can expect what you want but you'll end up with egg on your face.

Tell you what I expect , every player to go out and give there all every single game and try to win.

ICT are a good side and play fast attacking football, put teams on the back foot from the off.

That's where we lack IMHO.