James McPake - Northern Irish or Scottish?

hfc rd · 06-09-2013 06:40 PM

Trying to settle an argument with my mate. Has James McPake switched allegiances to Northern Ireland over Scotland? I'm sure he represented Northern Ireland a few years ago against Holland. But my mate is acting certain that he is Scottish through and through and hasn't switched his allegiance.

**Craig_in_Prague** · 06-09-2013 06:41 PM

NI

**Sir David Gray** · 06-09-2013 06:42 PM

He has represented Northern Ireland at senior level.

**SurferRosa** · 06-09-2013 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by hfc rd

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Trying to settle an argument with my mate. Has James McPake switched allegiances to Northern Ireland over Scotland? I'm sure he represented Northern Ireland a few years ago against Holland. But my mate is acting certain that he is Scottish through and through and hasn't switched his allegiance.

Norn Iron. He was capped against the dutch last year.

**brianmc** · 06-09-2013 06:43 PM

Born+bred in Lanarkshire...... Plays for Northern Ireland, so you're both correct!

**Thecat23** · 06-09-2013 06:43 PM

Scottish.. I don't buy into this whole my granny was Irish so that makes me Irish. If he's born here he's Scottish.

**Craig_in_Prague** · 06-09-2013 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Thecat23

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scottish.. I don't buy into this whole my granny was Irish so that makes me Irish. If he's born here he's Scottish.

And James Mcarthy playing for ROI

***Jones28*** · 06-09-2013 07:05 PM

Tbf if given the choice wouldn't you pick the team you were most likely to get picked for?

**monktonharp** · 06-09-2013 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Thecat23

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scottish.. I don't buy into this whole my granny was Irish so that makes me Irish. If he's born here he's Scottish.

did not take long for this debate to kick in. mc geady springs to mind. the difference with that, was that he was a celtic player and that made him a plastic paddy f/off, as far as a lot on here wanted... now we've got one, what we gonna do?

**Thecat23** · 06-09-2013 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And James Mcarthy playing for ROI

Scottish :D

And Aiden the tranny.

**Thecat23** · 06-09-2013 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jones28

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tbf if given the choice wouldn't you pick the team you were most likely to get picked for?

I personally would yeah. But I have an English grandad if I played for them in no way would I be English I'd just be representing them. As in McPakes case and the others.

**Thecat23** · 06-09-2013 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by HibeeN

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not as black-and-white on this issue - I think people have the right to self-determine and even if someone was born in one country they might have family ties or cultural traditions from their ancestral country that makes them identify more with that.

This kind of thing is brought up with the German national team a lot - i.e: Podolski (Born in Poland, lived in Germany since age 2), Özil (born in Germany, 3rd-generation Turk), Khedira (born in Germany to a German mother and Tunisian father). I don't think it's for anybody else to decide whether they are German/Polish/Turkish/Tunisian - it's up to the individual what they identify as.

Granted, I think a lot of footballers probably choose their "country" for footballing reasons rather than issues of self-determination, but I don't think the issue is as clear cut as your nationality being the country you were born in.

My sister was born in England, lived there 2 months then my parents moved back. If I for a min call her English she goes mad so I actually understand what you mean. But to me she's still English (sorry Donna if your reading this) :D

**marinello59** · 06-09-2013 07:13 PM

If I had emigrated and had kids abroad I would be delighted if they wanted to represent Scotland rather than the country of their birth. If only Joe Baker could have played for Scotland. There is an element of choice under the current rules and quite rightly so.

**Craig_in_Prague** · 06-09-2013 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by marinello59

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If I had emigrated and had kids abroad I would be delighted if they wanted to represent Scotland rather than the country of their birth. If only Joe Baker could have played for Scotland. There is an element of choice under the current rules and quite rightly so.

yup.
If my wee boy grows up to be a footballer, if he is good he will play for Czech Rep. And if just ok, then Scotland lol.
In all seriousness I would be probably more proud if he decided to play for Scotland despite being born & living here.

**monktonharp** · 06-09-2013 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

yup.
If my wee boy grows up to be a footballer, if he is good he will play for Czech Rep. And if just ok, then Scotland lol.
In all seriousness I would be probably more proud if he decided to play for Scotland despite being born & living here.

you seem a lot like mc geady's grampa

**stoneyburn hibs** · 06-09-2013 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Thecat23

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scottish :D

And Aiden the tranny.

And it gets my goat, two born and bred Scottish guys caught up in the romantics of playing for Ireland.

**Purple & Green** · 06-09-2013 08:30 PM

This isn't the greatest article, but it's worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules

You need to be national of the country you want to represent in the first instance (in practical terms have a passport), and where you are born is secondary. IIRC all the Scottish players have to show their UK passports to the FIFA observer to establish their entitlement to play for Scotland.

It also works in reverse - ISTR that Henrik Larsson's son was born in Scotland, but would have no entitlement to play for Scotland because he isn't a UK national, being born in the UK doesn't automatically entitle you to a UK passport.

And obviously the 4 home nations are slightly unique in world football in that they all share citizenship of the same country. This is complicated further by the nationality(citizenship) rules of the Irish Republic which means that in practical terms many people are entitled to citizenship of the Irish Republic if they can show they have a parent of grandparent born on the island of Ireland. In my own case, I can claim Irish citizenship on the back of a grandmother born in Derry in 1918.

It's worth a read of the long running dispute between NI, the republic and FIFA over nationality entitlement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ls/7147228.stm

**Purple & Green** · 06-09-2013 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by marinello59

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If I had emigrated and had kids abroad I would be delighted if they wanted to represent Scotland rather than the country of their birth. If only Joe Baker could have played for Scotland. There is an element of choice under the current rules and quite rightly so.

Jimmy Wardaugh was born in England and represented Scotland, before Joe Baker. It's funny what you find out, and seems to make no sense whatsoever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wardhaugh

**Holmesdale Hibs** · 06-09-2013 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Thecat23

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scottish.. I don't buy into this whole my granny was Irish so that makes me Irish. If he's born here he's Scottish.

As someone with an Irish granny, I agree. I don't feel at all Irish or care when they win or lose.

That being said, it's different for every individual so if McPake feels Northern Irish then fair play.

Hypothetically, if I good enough for Ireland but not Scotland, I'd turn down the chance, however that's unlikely on a couple of levels.

***Rocky*** · 06-09-2013 11:02 PM

I reckon the qualification should be simple -if you're eligible to play for more than one country you should just answer the question: Who would you want to win in a match between those teams. That defines your allegiance for me

**SunshineOnLeith** · 07-09-2013 12:40 AM

Craig Levein was Scotland manager when McPake chose to play for NI - I think that was probably more relevant in his decision than any plastic paddyness.

**Pete** · 07-09-2013 01:48 AM

Why is it that when anyone chooses to recognise their Irish heritage it's considered "plastic"?

Footballers like Marcus Gayle never got such labels for deciding they wanted to represent a foreign country

There's bound to be a breakthrough in the near future when it comes to Asian players. When one of them decides to represent Pakistan on a point of principle instead of Scotland or England I'll have no doubt the same standards will apply and he will be a "plastic Paki".

You wouldn't dream of it and anyone choosing any part of Ireland should be given the same amount of respect.

**Swedish hibee** · 07-09-2013 03:08 AM

Nothing would make me prouder than to see my son play for Scotland.. But really, Scotland over Sweden

Ach. You never know...

***I'm_cabbaged*** · 07-09-2013 05:49 AM

Is Fletcher no English born?

**~~Hibernia Na Eir~~** · 07-09-2013 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by brianmc

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Born+bred in Lanarkshire...... Plays for Northern Ireland, so you're both correct!

wonder why James McCarthy was singled out for abuse when he had identical situation? hmmm...

**Pretty Boy** · 07-09-2013 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hibernia Na Eir

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

wonder why James McCarthy was singled out for abuse when he had identical situation? hmmm...

I think McCarthy had every right to go and play for Ireland. Despite clearly being a good player and playing 1st team football at 16, he was repeatedly ignored by Scotland at youth levels. No wonder he jumped at the chance to play for Ireland. He always said if Scotland had asked first then that's who he would have played for.

McGeady is relativelt similar as well. When he signed for Celtic he wasn't allowed to play for his school team and the SFA has a rule that players.that don't play for their school teams can't represent Scotland schools teams. Ireland don't have that rule, knew he was eligible so invited him into the set up at a young age. When Scotland came callimg a few years later he declined as he was settled in the Irish set up.

That's probably not treacherous enough for some though.

***Hibrandenburg*** · 07-09-2013 07:44 AM

My little boy was refused a UK passport because his mum is German. Would be cool though to see a guid Scottish name on the back of a German strip at the 2030 world cup finals

**hibby rae** · 07-09-2013 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by I'm_cabbaged

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is Fletcher no English born?

According to wikipedia he was born in Shrewsbury but spent the first ten years of his life moving around various UK and German British army bases before settling in Scotland.

**hibby rae** · 07-09-2013 07:50 AM

On the other hand we have Jordan Rhodes who is English born but always wanted to play for Scotland. Unlike English players of the past and present who represented Scotland as England never picked them.