Sir Matt Busby and Hibs

[Baker9]

One for the historians. I've just finished a 1999 biography of Matt Busby in which the writer says, "...Busby would go on to play for Reading, Chelsea, Aldershot and Hibernian throughout the war. He even 'managed' Hibs for a while when stationed in Scotland. After the war the Edinburgh club was the most successful in Scotland, largely on the back of players recommended by Matt while he was there". Does the club history add more to this?

[Kato]

I started reading that book and put it down on reading the authors assertions about Busby's time at Hibs. Willie McCartney managed Hibs at the time. Busby played as a "guest" signing and he certainly didn't sign anyone for Hibs. The idea that Busby had an insight into youth players in Scotland at the time is also a bit of a strech. The author just seemed, with a passing phrase, to want to give the credit for Hibs post-war dominance to Busby. Not very well researched imho.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I started reading that book and put it down on reading the authors assertions about Busby's time at Hibs. Willie McCartney managed Hibs at the time. Busby played as a "guest" signing and he certainly didn't sign anyone for Hibs. The idea that Busby had an insight into youth players in Scotland at the time is also a bit of a strech. The author just seemed, with a passing phrase, to want to give the credit for Hibs post-war dominance to Busby. Not very well researched imho.

Agreed - Sir Matt did write the foreword to the excellent book 100 Years of Hibs - see below Its a bit more realistic about his involvement with Hibs, but there's no doubt about his affinity for us.

[jdships]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I started reading that book and put it down on reading the authors assertions about Busby's time at Hibs. Willie McCartney managed Hibs at the time. Busby played as a "guest" signing and he certainly didn't sign anyone for Hibs. The idea that Busby had an insight into youth players in Scotland at the time is also a bit of a strech. The author just seemed, with a passing phrase, to want to give the credit for Hibs post-war dominance to Busby. Not very well researched imho.

Good post
My uncle who played for the Hibs in the 1920's was over age in 1939 and worked in the shipyards but kept his connection with ER and I remember his commenting on this subject after reading the book
" Author's Licence" was the phrase he used
According to him with McCartney it was a case of "whar dor meddle wi' me " , he was very much in charge

[Baker9]

I wasn't put off reading the rest of the book but it did make me question the validity of the rest of the content. No doubt a great man loved by many and a shame if any of what has been written in his name is exaggerated or misguided.

[Kato]

I just thought on reading the Hibs section that if the guy was going to get that wrong or exagerate Busby's part so much, there wasn't much point in going any further. Some books can be partisan but I thought insulting Willie McCartney like that was too rich.

[jdships]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I just thought on readimg the Hibs section that if the guy was going t get that wrong or exagerate Busby's part so much, there wasn't much point in going any further. Some books can be partisan but I thought insulting Willie McCartney like that was too rich.

[Leith Mo]

In the "Prince of Wingers" book about the life of Gordon Smith there is quite a bit about Busby and Hibs as he and Gordon Smith remained firm friends for many years as a result of Busby's involvement with Hibs - with Busby even trying to sign Gordon as a player afterwards

[Conrad Gray]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Good post
My uncle who played for the Hibs in the 1920's was over age in 1939 and worked in the shipyards but kept his connection with ER and I remember his commenting on this subject after reading the book
" Author's Licence" was the phrase he used
According to him with McCartney it was a case of "whar dor meddle wi' me " , he was very much in charge

I am doing some research on this period at Hibs - can you tell me your uncle's name?

[erin go bragh]

Did Matt Busby not play for us when we dished out the old Rangers heaviest competitive defeat ,8-1 at the Leith San Siro .a record that cant be broken


ggtth

[Kato]

Some good stuff from a couple of years back.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...-Busby-at-Hibs

[mim]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did Matt Busby not play for us when we dished out the old Rangers heaviest competitive defeat ,8-1 at the Leith San Siro .a record that cant be broken


ggtth

Right era. Busby was down to play, but couldn't make it.

[Baker9]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Some good stuff from a couple of years back.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...-Busby-at-Hibs

Thanks for that link.

[heidtheba]

I think everyone here will already be aware of this but I'm sure that in the Scottish National War Museum up at the Castle there is a 1940s programme for a game with Matt Busby - sure it mentions something about Hibs there but I can't for the life of me remember what. It is in the same exhibition room as the Nazis emblem from the tail of a WW2 bomber.

[Purple & Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I started reading that book and put it down on reading the authors assertions about Busby's time at Hibs. Willie McCartney managed Hibs at the time. Busby played as a "guest" signing and he certainly didn't sign anyone for Hibs. The idea that Busby had an insight into youth players in Scotland at the time is also a bit of a strech. The author just seemed, with a passing phrase, to want to give the credit for Hibs post-war dominance to Busby. Not very well researched imho.

http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/player.php?playerid=555

Gordon Smith signed before Busby's time at Easter Road - Ormond, Turnbull, Johnstone and Reilly all arrived after he left in 1943. Just nonsense from the author IMHO

[Baker9]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/player.php?playerid=555

Gordon Smith signed before Busby's time at Easter Road - Ormond, Turnbull, Johnstone and Reilly all arrived after he left in 1943. Just nonsense from the author IMHO

Sir Matt died long before the book was written and it is safe to say that he did not proofread it nor did he personally approve it. Poor show by the author.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Right era. Busby was down to play, but couldn't make it.

Naw, and we didn't need him either.

My father was at that game and told me that Gordon Smith had a stormer and Bobby Combe scored four from Gordon's service. We played them a few weeks later at Ibrox with Rangers promising revenge for the 8-1, and Bobby scored again - the only goal in a 1-0 victory.

As I understand it the deal with Busby was that like other servicemen he was allowed to play as a guest when available for teams in whatever area he was posted to. Hibs played a number of guest players over the war years, not many as prominent as Busby in their later careers. But as I understand it, he wasn't a signed player for Hibs ever - not like Gordon and Bobby were.

The great Willie McCartney was indisputably The Boss at ER at this time, and the idea of Busby or anyone else 'managing' the team or 'signing' players for the team is ludicrous - Mr McCartney would have given him his guts as a bow-tie if he'd done anything other than WHAT he was told WHEN he was told. That's not to say that Willie didn't like him or value him; it's just how Mr McCartney was.

The truth is that Busby learned a great deal about football and managing a football team from McCartney and Hibs. He said himself that he enjoyed his times at ER and may very well have had a soft spot for the club, but I'd guess that your author here's a Man Utd groupie who sees everything through Man Utd-tinted spectacles and nothing is to be allowed to detract from the greatness of Man Utd and Man Utd's postwar "Messiah".

Did he know about Gordon Smith's testimonial match on September 15 1952? Man Utd were leading 3-2 at half-time. FT score, Hibs 7-3 Man Utd.

http://file:///C:/Users/GeorgeM/Down...20Sharing!.htm

"Busby would go on to play for Reading, Chelsea, Aldershot and Hibernian throughout the war. He even 'managed' Hibs for a while when stationed in Scotland. After the war the Edinburgh club was the most successful in Scotland, largely on the back of players recommended by Matt while he was there," is garbage.

The give-away's in the quote itself - there were Army barracks close to the grounds of all four clubs mentioned, and Busby didn't have a spell at each one of those clubs one after the other - he was sort of 'shared out' among them depending on where he happened to be for the duration of the war.

And since he was in the Army, he couldn't possibly have had any sort of formal ties to any one of those clubs - I mean, what's he going to say - "Sorry, General Montgomery, but I can't go to Normandy this weekend, I've got a big game against Rangers to organise at Easter Road"?

Your man's talking crap.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Naw, and we didn't need him either.

My father was at that game and told me that Gordon Smith had a stormer and Bobby Combe scored four from Gordon's service. We played them a few weeks later at Ibrox with Rangers promising revenge for the 8-1, and Bobby scored again - the only goal in a 1-0 victory. I haven't the foggiest whether Busby played in that game either. And I'm really not that bothered.

As I understand it the deal with Busby was that like other servicemen he was allowed to play as a guest when available for teams in whatever area he was posted to. Hibs played a number of guest players over the war years, not many as prominent as Busby in their later careers. But as I understand it, he wasn't a signed player for Hibs ever - not like Gordon and Bobby were.

The great Willie McCartney was indisputably The Boss at ER at this time, and the idea of Busby or anyone else 'managing' the team or 'signing' players for the team is ludicrous - Mr McCartney would have given him his guts as a bow-tie if he'd done anything other than WHAT he was told WHEN he was told. That's not to say that Willie didn't like him or value him; it's just how Mr McCartney was.

The truth is that Busby learned a great deal about football and managing a football team from McCartney and Hibs. He said himself that he enjoyed his times at ER and may very well have had a soft spot for the club, but I'd guess that your author here's a Man Utd groupie who sees everything through Man Utd-tinted spectacles and nothing is to be allowed to detract from the greatness of Man Utd and Man Utd's postwar "Messiah".

Did he know about Gordon Smith's testimonial match on September 15 1952? Man Utd were leading 3-2 at half-time. FT score, Hibs 7-3 Man Utd.

http://file:///C:/Users/GeorgeM/Down...20Sharing!.htm

"Busby would go on to play for Reading, Chelsea, Aldershot and Hibernian throughout the war. He even 'managed' Hibs for a while when stationed in Scotland. After the war the Edinburgh club was the most successful in Scotland, largely on the back of players recommended by Matt while he was there," is garbage.

The give-away's in the quote itself - there were Army barracks close to the grounds of all four clubs mentioned, and Busby didn't have a spell at each one of those clubs one after the other - he was sort of 'shared out' among them depending on where he happened to be for the duration of the war.

And since he was in the Army, he couldn't possibly have had any sort of formal ties to any one of those clubs - I mean, what's he going to say - "Sorry, General Montgomery, but I can't go to Normandy this weekend, I've got a big game against Rangers to organise at Easter Road"?

Your man's talking crap.

Indeed he is talking bollocks but Busby obviously felt something for Hibs or why bother in 1975 to write a generous foreword to our centenary book 100 Years of Hibs. He was infinitely more famous then but never forgot?

Busby may not have been good enough for us as a player but don't think he himself claimed to be that great.

I suspect the author of the twaddle mentioned had an eye on Man U's worldwide fan club when he wrote it :-)

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Indeed he is talking bollocks but Busby obviously felt something for Hibs or why bother in 1975 to write a generous foreword to our centenary book 100 Years of Hibs. He was infinitely more famous then but never forgot?

Busby may not have been good enough for us as a player but don't think he himself claimed to be that great.

I suspect the author of the twaddle mentioned had an eye on Man U's worldwide fan club when he wrote it :-)

Yup - Busby wasn't the greatest of footballers - nor were Bill Shankly and Jock Stein, come to that - but he did play for us during the war and clearly retained a fond regard for the club. That said, he played for a very respectable list of clubs before and during the war.

That foreword was indeed generous; I know my father always counted him as a "Hibs player" who made good down south.

Re-reading what I posted I realise that I sounded more derogatory of Busby than I ever would wish to be. (There should have been a after the first sentence.) I've put it in now and removed a couple of sentences that really didn't come out right at all. Busby was a regular and welcome 'guest' at the Holy Ground and well-liked and appreciated by the Hibs fans.

I wasn't intending to denigrate the great man. I'm old enough to remember the morning paper arriving the morning after the Munich air crash and the absolute shock on my father's face as he saw the headlines. I really believe that Munich scarred Busby in ways that never healed and that only he knew of.

He had his defects - we all do - but in my youth he was Manchester United, the man who built the 'Babes' team, then held the club together after Munich, then rebuilt the team to win the European Cup in 1968. I think he found it very hard to retire after that win, which rather took away from the way he's now remembered.

FWIW, I'm certain that he would have loved to have been involved in handing out that thrashing to Rangers.

There an awful lot of people around nowadays very ignorant of the history of the game in those years, and worse than that, they aren't aware of how little they know. I guess the author concerned here was writing for that readership, so his own ignorance wouldn't have occurred to him to be a problem either.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yup - Busby wasn't the greatest of footballers - nor were Bill Shankly and Jock Stein, come to that - but he did play for us during the war and clearly retained a fond regard for the club. That said, he played for a very respectable list of clubs before and during the war.

That foreword was indeed generous; I know my father always counted him as a "Hibs player" who made good down south.

Re-reading what I posted I realise that I sounded more derogatory of Busby than I ever would wish to be. (There should have been a after the first sentence.) I've put it in now and removed a couple of sentences that really didn't come out right at all. Busby was a regular and welcome 'guest' at the Holy Ground and well-liked and appreciated by the Hibs fans.

I wasn't intending to denigrate the great man. I'm old enough to remember the morning paper arriving the morning after the Munich air crash and the absolute shock on my father's face as he saw the headlines. I really believe that Munich scarred Busby in ways that never healed and that only he knew of.

He had his defects - we all do - but in my youth he was Manchester United, the man who built the 'Babes' team, then held the club together after Munich, then rebuilt the team to win the European Cup in 1968. I think he found it very hard to retire after that win, which rather took away from the way he's now remembered.

FWIW, I'm certain that he would have loved to have been involved in handing out that thrashing to Rangers.

There an awful lot of people around nowadays very ignorant of the history of the game in those years, and worse than that, they aren't aware of how little they know. I guess the author concerned here was writing for that readership, so his own ignorance wouldn't have occurred to him to be a problem either.

Never thought you were casting aspurtions Doddie...........

[mim]

The 8-1 game was the only match my mum ever attended. Must have been boring :-)

[Purple & Green]

Busby was a very good player - a Scottish international and regular with Manchester city and Liverpool pre war. His Wikipedia entry makes mention of. 1973 autobiography - I'd be interested to see that

[Jonnyboy]

I had the good fortune to meet Matt Busby when I was attending a testimonial at Old Trafford (Arthur Albiston). Met him in the players lounge after the game and when he heard I was a Hibby he told me he'd loved his time at ER and always looked out for the Hibs result on a Saturday

Top bloke