Remaining loyal to the manager

[Hibbyradge]

I've never called for a manager to be sacked. I defended Alex Miller till the end and I stayed loyal to Bobby Williamson in the hope that he'd turn things around.

Even with Calderwood, although my patience was threadbare, I always gave him another chance.

But, I've finally had enough.

Yesterday's result was no surprise. I expected Hearts to be ultra fired up in their first home game after the summer they've had and I expected them to win. They've adopted a siege mentality, rightly so, and they'll feel that they've got plenty of points to prove. The fact that their first game in administration was against us, just increased their determination.

It's 11 v 11 regardless of age and those young players will do relatively well at the beginning of the season. We won't be the only team they beat, but they'll burn out as the season wears on. Injuries will mount up, heavy grounds will arrive and the early season enthusiasm and energy will wane.

Even the goal was as a result of a stupid and unnecessary challenge by McGivern which let the boy skip down the line and fire in a speculative cross. Bullet finish by Paterson, tbf.

So the result itself hasn't tipped the scales for me, but the performance has. There are good players in that Hibs team, but they look like they don't know what they're doing.

There's no obvious system, no movement and, apart from hopeful long balls, no service to the front players. It's horrible.

I don't know who we can afford to bring in, but for the first time in my life, I do believe the manager should go. I WANT him to go. There, I said it.

He really should resign, but no one does that anymore. They all believe they can turn it around.

I don't believe Fenlon can.

There are a few posters on here who, like me, have always backed the manager, but I've noticed their attitudes changing this time.

When you lose folk like that, things must be very bad.

Time for (another) change.

[Sylar]

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I've never called for a manager to be sacked. I defended Alex Miller till the end and I stayed loyal to Bobby Williamson in the hope that he'd turn things around.

Even with Calderwood, although my patience was threadbare, I always gave him another chance.

But, I've finally had enough.

Yesterday's result was no surprise. I expected Hearts to be ultra fired up in their first home game after the summer they've had and I expected them to win. They've adopted a siege mentality, rightly so, and they'll feel that they've got plenty of points to prove. The fact that their first game in administration was against us, just increased their determination.

It's 11 v 11 regardless of age and those young players will do relatively well at the beginning of the season. We won't be the only team they beat, but they'll burn out as the season wears on. Injuries will mount up, heavy grounds will arrive and the early season enthusiasm and energy will wane.

Even the goal was as a result of a stupid and unnecessary challenge by McGivern which let the boy skip down the line and fire in a speculative cross. Bullet finish by Paterson, tbf.

So the result itself hasn't tipped the scales for me, but the performance has. There are good players in that Hibs team, but they look like they don't know what they're doing.

There's no obvious system, no movement and, apart from hopeful long balls, no service to the front players. It's horrible.

I don't know who we can afford to bring in, but for the first time in my life, I do believe the manager should go. I WANT him to go. There, I said it.

He really should resign, but no one does that anymore. They all believe they can turn it around.

I don't believe Fenlon can.

There are a few posters on here who, like me, have always backed the manager, but I've noticed their attitudes changing this time.

When you lose folk like that, things must be very bad.

Time for (another) change.

Agree with all of your post except you're wrong about the bit in bold. They played St Johnstone last week and looked a pitiful team indeed.

[Hibbyradge]

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Agree with all of your post except you're wrong about the bit in bold. They played St Johnstone last week and looked a pitiful team indeed.

You're right.

I meant first home game.

[Speedway]

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Agree with all of your post except you're wrong about the bit in bold. They played St Johnstone last week and looked a pitiful team indeed.

They looked pitiful against us.

A decent team would've had a hatful against that crap.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Has he been emptied yet?

[Liberal Hibby]

Aye it's truly over for Pat when the likes of your good self can't bring yourself to back him.

My only remaining hope is that we bring someone new in to coach this team - which looks pretty decent on paper - rather than start the whole cycle of clearing out and rebuilding which we have endured for about five years with no long term gain.

[Speedway]

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Has he been emptied yet?

According to someone on the Scotsman, yes.

[Spike Mandela]

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According to someone on the Scotsman, yes.

Hmmmmm, somebody calling themselves tastypinkflaps. Sounds reliable.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm going to admit that i bought into Caderwoods short term/long term doubters bull****. That's how blindly loyal i am with Hibs managers but Fenlon has absolutely lost me. I have no desire to go to ER and get worked up and angry just thinking about him.

I keep hearing he is a nice guy, i think he is a nice guy but his whole manner at the moment infuriates me. Trying to justify that yesterday as unlucky, it shouldn't even have been close, trying to spin the Motherwell defeat into some kind of positive, trying to blame all our current problems on being 'unlucky' or 'not getting the breaks'.

I even done something i swore i would never do and emailed the club this morning about the whole situation. I've had enough but i'll be back because it's just what i do, of more concern to the club should be the fans who they might lose forever, the kids who will go off and 'support' United, City, Barca, Chelsea, PSG etc.

[Speedway]

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Hmmmmm, somebody calling themselves tastypinkflaps. Sounds reliable.

Indeed.

[Gustavo Fring]

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I even done something i swore i would never do and emailed the club this morning about the whole situation. I've had enough but i'll be back because it's just what i do, of more concern to the club should be the fans who they might lose forever, the kids who will go off and 'support' United, City, Barca, Chelsea, PSG etc.

im going to do the same , we should all fire in an email . its a start

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Hmmmmm, somebody calling themselves tastypinkflaps. Sounds reliable.

[delbert]

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Indeed.

Remaining loyal to the manager

Quite a few guys remained loyal to General Custer at Little Big Horn - that worked out well !!

[Big90inOz]

Is this the most negative Hibs team you have seen? Do we really try to win games?

I can and have watched many poor Hibs teams but I have never ever been so bored as I am when watching Hibs as I am now.
I actually cringed today when a work mate said he had watched the last 30 mins while he waited on the Charity Shield game to come on.

[Callum_62]

Im overseas, so I guess I have it easier than most on here

But my patience has ran out.

I believe the squad we have is decent, but watching the Well game and that debacle yesterday was unbelievable

I defended him after the Well game, thinking 0-7 probably played a huge roll and solidification was needed, and we got that, but it was awful to watch

I actually think we were worse yesterday. I expected a big reaction from the team, utilising all our ball players we have in midfield

what did we get....hoof hoof hoof. It was painful to watch

If we won 1-0 I would be saying the same. I pay $20 thro HI to watch a game. Its not justified at all.

We look like a rudderless side. Slow, unimaginative, and incredibly boring

I cant understand why Pat wasn't screaming for the team to get the ball down and pass it....it was meat and drink for Wilson. Not once did I see the management team screaming at them to stop hoofing it...so I assume that was a tactic

Not good enough for me.

Any coach that at least tries to play the game the right way has to come in....and in doing so I believe we would actually be playing to our strengths!

[Captain Trips]

I didn't like CC from day one so only said to s few on here via PM as if said on here I would have got slammed. I just got a vibe that it wasn't going to go well however I supported and backed him on here as he deserved the chance, it was after about 3 months I stated openly he wasn't right and saw a few thought that as well BH being one.

PF felt different and had hopes as totally different vibe but I felt he didnt kick on from CC it was still dire and I didnt buy into just blaming it on CCs mess that he left. I believed a good manager would have got us better results so my concerns on PF were before the 5-1 debackle but I so wanted him to succeed however I felt clear he wasn't going to.

I backed Jim Duffy for to long and don't want to make that mistake again.

[Hibs Class]

Think I've been similarly supportive of our managers. Been on holiday the last three weeks so missed malmo games and Motherwell, and just got back in time to see second half yesterday. Tend to agree with OP - DU will be my first match this season, first since the cup final, and I've no enthusiasm for it. I cannot say that replacing PF will lead to an immediate improvement, but no longer feel that he's able to turn it around and so the longer he stays in role the harder this season will be.

[Stevie Reid]

Didn't want Mixu or Yogii sacked but was glad when they left - didn't ever take to Calderwood and was glad to see the back of him.

I posted last week saying that whilst I didn't think the Motherwell game was a disaster, a defeat in which we just didn't show up at Tynie would be indefensible - and boy was yesterday indefensible. I had genuinely high hopes for this season until the Malmo defeat, I had clinged to the hope that the good attacking performances that we had last year could again return, but yesterday was proof that not only is the football going to be horrendous this year, but also that we are under terminal decline under Fenlon.

It is extremely unfortunate that Harris wasn't fit yesterday, the game was crying out for someone like him and the signs from Collins' performance were that the two in combination could have caused major problems. However, injuries are part and parcel of football (indeed Hearts lost their biggest goal threat to injury in the first half) and for us to have no other option of pace and creativity in the squad is another fault that lies at Pat's door.

I don't want him to be abused by the Hibs support (though sadly that does seem inevitable, and anger is understandable after the manner of the worst defeats under him), but I do want him gone.

[Gustavo Fring]

i emailed my feelings on the matter to the hibs board , lets see if they respond

[WestEndHibee]

I think yesterday was the final straw for the majority of the remaining "give him a chance" group. I was one of these and after the Malmo game thought its best to see how we match up against spl opposition in the first two games. The fact is that we do have good-ish players, we just don't even attempt to win, I absolutely hate 0-0 and 1-0 games. I used to love hibs style of play but now we've regressed into a Stoke type team and can't even do that well. If Hibs are truly going to capitalise on hearts demise then we need to be a fun attractive team on the pitch.

[Alfred E Newman]

I really hoped that Pat would eventually get an attractive winning side on the park but it is not going to happen. The football has been dire since day one but there was always the thought that it was a gradual team building process. It isn't happening and the quality of football and the rrsults are getting worse instead of better. It looks very like his days are now rightly numbered and what really fills me with despair is the thought of another couple of years in so called transition. Stagnation would be a better word as we go through the whole process again.

[Hibbyradge]

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I really hoped that Pat would eventually get an attractive winning side on the park but it is not going to happen. The football has been dire since day one but there was always the thought that it was a gradual team building process. It isn't happening and the quality of football and the rrsults are getting worse instead of better. It looks very like his days are now rightly numbered and what really fills me with despair is the thought of another couple of years in so called transition. Stagnation would be a better word as we go through the whole process again.

You never know, we could get someone in who hits the floor running.

I genuinely think the squad is good enough, although we could do with more width, so someone with a bit of nous (or luck) might just be the spark that's needed.

At the moment there's nothing to look forward to.

[lord bunberry]

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I really hoped that Pat would eventually get an attractive winning side on the park but it is not going to happen. The football has been dire since day one but there was always the thought that it was a gradual team building process. It isn't happening and the quality of football and the rrsults are getting worse instead of better. It looks very like his days are now rightly numbered and what really fills me with despair is the thought of another couple of years in so called transition. Stagnation would be a better word as we go through the whole process again.

That's exactly how I was trying to look at it. He inherited an absolute shambles and I always thought it would take him a while to sort it out, but the performance rather than the results from our first two games has left me dismayed. His comments about us being unlucky in those games means he is never going to be the man to take us forward, the sooner he goes the better.

[Sunny1875]

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Remaining loyal to the manager

Quite a few guys remained loyal to General Custer at Little Big Horn - that worked out well !!

Never really rated Custer as a manager, way too attacking, clueless in defence and his midfield was completely over run at little big horn.

[marinello59]

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I really hoped that Pat would eventually get an attractive winning side on the park but it is not going to happen. The football has been dire since day one but there was always the thought that it was a gradual team building process. It isn't happening and the quality of football and the rrsults are getting worse instead of better. It looks very like his days are now rightly numbered and what really fills me with despair is the thought of another couple of years in so called transition. Stagnation would be a better word as we go through the whole process again.

I feel exactly the same.
There's a telling passage in the book 'Moneyball :The Art of Winning an Unfair Game' by Michael Lewis where the author basically says that some professional sports teams just give up trying to win anything but continue to collect the fans money and pay the players a wage for accepting second best. And the common description they use to describe the state they are in is 'rebuilding'. Sounds familiar doesn't it? OK, it's a book about baseball but it struck a chord with me and had me questioning just why we have put up with it for so long at Hibs.

[Cauld Bovril]

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You never know, we could get someone in who hits the floor running.

I genuinely think the squad is good enough, although we could do with more width, so someone with a bit of nous (or luck) might just be the spark that's needed.

At the moment there's nothing to look forward to.

Completely agree with that, a good manager would get these players winning more than they lost against the rest of the teams in the league.

[lucky]

I very rarely call for a manager to go but I feel PFs is out his depth. As for boycotting, not for me. Going to the football is what I like to do. Watching Hibsnil is not great but they are still my team. I think we have a decent squad. Overall we were better than the boy band that the Yams put out but yet again they score with their only chance. A more experienced manager would get more out of the squad.

[weonlywon6-2]

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Agree with all of your post except you're wrong about the bit in bold. They played St Johnstone last week and looked a pitiful team indeed.

Make no mistake here,hearts are woeful and will get well beaten on a few occasions this season.
Shamefully we are worse

[rcarter1]

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You never know, we could get someone in who hits the floor running.

I genuinely think the squad is good enough, although we could do with more width, so someone with a bit of nous (or luck) might just be the spark that's needed.

At the moment there's nothing to look forward to.

Agree.

Pace is a problem, and we must be stretched budget wise by now, but I would be very hopeful that someone could take these players and make them play a bit.

Pat seems to have turned the club around, but then started to walk backwards...

[Purehibee_MYB]

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I think yesterday was the final straw for the majority of the remaining "give him a chance" group. I was one of these and after the Malmo game thought its best to see how we match up against spl opposition in the first two games. The fact is that we do have good-ish players, we just don't even attempt to win, I absolutely hate 0-0 and 1-0 games. I used to love hibs style of play but now we've regressed into a Stoke type team and can't even do that well. If Hibs are truly going to capitalise on hearts demise then we need to be a fun attractive team on the pitch.

I'm the same HH yesterday was the straw that broke the camel's back. Regretting the decision for my first season ticket now! But the MYB will remain a part of ER for the rest of the season despite the pain.

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That's exactly how I was trying to look at it. He inherited an absolute shambles and I always thought it would take him a while to sort it out, but the performance rather than the results from our first two games has left me dismayed. His comments about us being unlucky in those games means he is never going to be the man to take us forward, the sooner he goes the better.

Completely agree with your comment. It's the performances rather than the results that have made me decide it is time for him to go. If we lost both games 3-2 or something I very much doubt as many people would be on his back. And also his excuses have run out, like you say, putting it down to luck is just taking the easy way out.