FWIW
My Hibs report Card Season 2012-2013
Summary
Overall Hibs have made progress this season. The application is still a bit patchy and some dreadful slumps in form meant all the good work at the front was spoilt. After being second in the league at the end of November to end up in the bottom 6 was disappointing.
Results wise the clean sheet versus Hearts this year was a real milestone. We saw in the first game at ER that Hibs were not going to be pushovers. It made me laugh to read after that game that the Hearts fans were seeking protection for their “flair” players from the hammer throwers in the Hibs side. The assaults carried out by some of their SFA registered thugs over the years on our players with little or no recourse remain points of contention between me and any Jambo that want to argue!
We performed better against the League leaders than we have for some time, which was positive. Our attention tends to wander and a lack of application and getting ourselves dirty against the more committed members of this football league cost us a hell of a lot of points. To not beat Ross Country at all over 3 games tells it’s own tale.
The cup run was superb they players and the fans connected and despite an absurd semi-final performance Hibs secured a cup final slot. In the final Hibs were well beaten by a better and more committed team.
The support for this team can grow if they identify that the management of the club have a plan and are slowly working towards the goal. Impacti4ence can best describe a fan. Most of the arguments on this forum and those I see at matches between supporters of the same team are over semantics and caused by differences in perspective.
The manager is has his weaknesses, there is no doubt about that but he does seem to be focussed on bringing a winning mentality to the club. Signing players who HATE to lose and will not be slow in challenging those around them who are not performing.
If we (the fans) give the manager time and are prepared to accept the long game I think we could see some exciting times ahead. We do need a bit of luck in signings, persuading players to moe to ER is not easy but being involved in Europe may sway some. A decent draw and progression would certainly help.
As a club we are viewed by the media as a bit player in the league, and based on results who can ague coherently against that? The only way they (the media) will change their views on our club if we stick it to the other clubs on a regular basis and are up there challenging on all counts at the season’s end.
Support. We need more bums on seats. We’ve a great stadium but even when we have 10k in it seems only half full (probably because it is!!) I welcome any marketing initiative that will get more fans along to games. The Euro qualifiers make a good start point. Cut price tickets. Signed shirt draws. Half time team talks, video screens showing great goals, anything to get the fans back. The main event needs to be entertaining almost as much as winning.
The club needs to help this by improving communication. The initiatives already underway fans feedback groups, Hibs tweets etc all help but a lot more can be done. The club must engage the fans and get them to feel part of the set up.
Barring league reconstruction we have 2 more seasons without Newco. Our goal must be to be no.2 in Scotland before that happens.
It starts today.
Results 1 to 30 of 123
Thread: 2012/13 Report Card
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31-05-2013 12:55 PM #1
2012/13 Report Card
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31-05-2013 01:14 PM #2
I'm not usually one for being negative and I'll preface this by saying that I didn't renew my seasont ticket last year so I haven't seen as many games this season as I did previously. However:
I don't think we have improved one iota as a team. I think Griffiths' performance this season has been mercurial at times and, without him, we would have been in massive trouble.
With the single exception of Williams, not one of the new signings has actually improved the team overall.
With regard to the cup final, if we had been playing the Hearts team of 12 months ago again last Sunday, I think the score would have been in the region of 5-1 again. The only reason it was a 3 goal margin instead of 4 is that Celtc are too professional/disciplined to really go for it. If it were Hearts, they would have kept at us until the 93rd minute and probably scored more goals.
Next season:
On the assumption that Griffiths will not be back next season, the challenge for Fenlon is now to build a team which gets the best out of the qualities which we do have. That will involve a total reorganisation of formation, strategy and tactics as they are all currently built around Griffiths.
I'm delighted by the introduction of the likes of Harris, Forster, Caldwell and Handling as players getting a fairly regular first-team game. I think the future of Hibernian (and probably most Scottish clubs) is to make the most of our youth systems and the players they produce. For us next season, that will include ensuring that the right environment exists in the dressing room to nurture the talent we undoubtedly have.
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31-05-2013 01:50 PM #3This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
3 or 4 teams had players that carried them this year, Griffiths was mediocre last year but a revelation this year. Where would motherwell have been without Higdons 26 goals? Billy McKay scored 23 for ICT, McGinn scored 20 for aberdeen who finished in a worse position than us.
What I am trying to say is that there are at least 4 teams that if you remove ONE player from them there league position pretty much turns upside down or worse.
We are less of a pushover than previous seasons but we still had that large post new year spell where in hibs tradition we play very poorly. This year it coincided with McPake's form dipping and Wotherspoon and Cairney vanishing from the wings, all of a sudden we were a team with a flat defensive midfield and only one attacking outlet in griffiths.
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31-05-2013 02:32 PM #5
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When Spoony and Cairney were on form Hibs displayed an element of creativity which has been grossly lacking for the past few years. If we are to see excitement back among fans at ER then we need to find a way of sustaining that kind of attacking flair over a season and in a way that doesn't rely on 1/2 players. You only have to look to Motherwell to see that it CAN be done on a relative shoestring, even with a big lump up front.
I'm quietly confident that the signings made so far and the recent emergence of some very promising youngsters put us in a decent position to challenge for top 4 next season. It feels like Fenlon is building a team for once, as opposed to the perennial 'rebuilding', if that makes sense.Last edited by patlowe; 31-05-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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31-05-2013 02:50 PM #6This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If you can't see any improvement over last year you must be visually impaired.
Yes Griffiths scored a lot of goals but we wouldn't have had to play with 10 men if he hadn't been around. I'm sure most other teams would have been the same. Where would Motherwell have been without Higdon or Hertz without Ngoo?
Definite improvement over the previous season but still work to be done.
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31-05-2013 03:37 PM #7
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If yer auntie had baws she'd be yer uncle etc - and if your argument had any more holes it would be a collander.
Griffiths WAS with us last season and we were almost relegated - this season we finished c 20 points better off, beating the Yamboloids twice along the way - but you see no progress?!?
There's none so blind as those that refuse to see
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31-05-2013 03:54 PM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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31-05-2013 03:59 PM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We've conceded 19 less goals this season than last and scored 2 more goals. (in 2 less matches) So our attacking hasn't been much of an improvement, but we've gotten much more solid at the back.
The improvement this season hasn't been spectacular, and even Fenlon admitted that not making the top 6 was a failure, but there has been improvements, to deny this is daft.
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This is the team that faced Celtic in our first game against them last season:
G Stack
C Booth
P Hanlon
S O'Hanlon
I Murray
D Wotherspoon
M Thornhill
L Stevenson
I Sproule
V Palsson
G O'Connor
M Brown
D Stephens
E de Graaf
D Galbraith
M Scott
S Taggart
D Crawford
and this is the team that faced Celtic in our first game against them this season:
B Williams
T Clancy
P Hanlon
J McPake
A Maybury
G Deegan (87)
J Claros
P Cairney
D Wotherspoon (87)
L Griffiths
E Doyle
C Antell
L Stevenson (87)
I Sproule (87)
S Stanton
D Handling
R Caldwell
S Kuqi
Do you honestly think that with the exception of Williams it would be a coin toss as to which team is better?
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31-05-2013 04:04 PM #10
This sums up things in the past few years, if you cannot see any improvement this season then I'm amazed.
• Thirty something points the last 2 seasons
• Last season closest to bottom in 12 seasons
• SPL loss ratio 55% - Previous worst 44% in 2001/2002
• Tenth/Eleventh place
• Flirting with relegation
• No Scottish Cup Final for a decade
• European adventures every five years on average
• Eight managers in ten years, constant squad rotation
• Journeymen passing through
• Weak keepers, powder puff midfield, hoofball in recent years
• No youth development
• Disconnect between players, manager, board and supporters
• Disenchanted support, more moaning than singing
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31-05-2013 04:09 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote"We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
"Romanov was like a breath of fresh air - laced with cyanide." Me.
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01-06-2013 10:06 AM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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31-05-2013 04:11 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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31-05-2013 08:15 PM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-06-2013 10:11 AM #15This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I wasn't comparing us against other SPL teams; I was comparing us this season against us from last season. However, to pick up on your point, taking Griffiths out of the equation leaves us with only 2 players who scored more than 2 league goals - Doyle (10) and Wotherspoon (4). Taking Higdon out of the equation for Motherwell leaves them with 7 players who scored more than 2 league goals - Murphy (10), Law (6), McFadden (5), Ojaama (4) and Hately, Humphrey and McHugh (all 3).
Even discounting the 9 goals from the last 3 of those players, that's 11 goals from other positions which we didn't get. It's debatable whether or not we have the players capable of scoring these "missing" goals, but we certainly don't have the tactics to allow them to do so.
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I realise that we wouldn't have played with 10 without Griffths, but it's very unlikely that we would have got someone else who would have contributed as many goals. However, what may have happened is that the corresponding lack of reliance on one striker would have altered our tactics to allow more goals from elsewhere on the pitch. As it stands, we simply don't know what we will be capable of without Griffths.
I've addressed the Mothewell without Higdon point above, but Hearts without Ngoo would be a scary propsect.
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I suppose a good way to evaluate my point would be to guesstimate where we would be if we had just finished the season with a striker other than Griffiths playing that role.
I'm not saying that we haven't had a decent season, I'm saying we haven't improved as a team.
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I like Cairney, but his form was always mixed. We don't know what's gone on behind the scenes which has resulted in him all but disappearing, but I don't think he improved what we already had and I don't think he will get a game ahead of Handling and Harris etc.
Taiwo has improved in recent weeks, but I don't agree that he's improved the team. I don't think Clancy has improved us either.
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Brown, Doherty, Hanlon, McPake, Kujabi, Claros, Soares, Stevenson, Osbourne, O'Connor and Doyle.
With the exception of Griffiths, is that team any worse "on paper" than the team that took the field in the majority of games this season?
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03-06-2013 08:55 AM #16This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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03-06-2013 09:01 AM #17
Good start, terrible going into Nov, great cup run, but some eye bleeding football. Prob 5 games out the whole season i've sat and enjoyed. The rest have been grim.
I hope the football improves this season, as Pat said that would happen once he got us stabilised. If not and it's continues to be poor and another bottom 6 finish then with out a shadow of a doubt he should be punted.
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03-06-2013 12:44 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It's obviously more complicated than that and other factors have to be considered such as those I've already touched on. However, how we would have fared without Griffiths in the past is the only logical place to start in evaluating how we will do if we have to play without him in the future.
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03-06-2013 10:56 AM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If they can replace Griffiths and Doyle with two players (even if that includes Griffiths himself) with two players who score 25-30 between them, they should score more goals overall due to Craig + younger players coming through.Last edited by Part/Time Supporter; 03-06-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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03-06-2013 01:39 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It's not as simple as signing players who have scored goals for other teams, you have to play in a way which allows those players to score goals. Cairney averaged about 1 in 4 for Partick and about 1 in 15 for us. Doyle had a much better goal record at his last club prior to leaving Ireland. Obviously, that was in a different division/league, but it still illustrates the point.
On a slight departure from points previously made, you make an interesting point regarding replacing the goals scored by players who have left/may leave. This seaon Doyle and Griffiths scored 33 league goals between them. If we replace those goals through a combination of new signings and young players coming that's one thing, but if we aim a little higher who knows what we might achieve?
Motherwell finished 2nd this season scoring 67 goals, conceding 51. We scored 49, conceding 52. However, Higdon only hit 3 more than Griffiths. That's 15 goals coming from elsewhere in the team. In theory, as I've been advocating, we need to be looking to produce more goals from elsewhere in the team. However, looking at things another way:
St Johnstone finished 3rd scoring 45 goals; 4 goals fewer than we did. They conceded 8 fewer goals, meaning their goal difference was 4 better than ours. However, they finished 3rd. Obviously it can't be as simple as to say that 4 goals was the difference between 3rd and 6th over the course of the season and there are a number of factors involved. However, we lost 7 games over the season by a 1-goal margin and we draw 12 games. Had we scored an extra goal in each of those games, we would have accumulated an extra 31 points - enough to make us champions!
As I say, I'm not suggesting it's as simple as that and I know people say that you can prove anything with statistics, but it's an interesting place to start as long as you can work back and work out the reasons behind the figures which emerge.
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31-05-2013 01:14 PM #21
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The report card would be like my school one-could do better, although we finished the season on a bit of a high there were months of dire stuff before we hit a decent bit of form. I think the manager is on a steep learning curve and i think he still gets things wrong but i hope learns from his mistakes ?. The best bit for me is the younger players coming through and also some decent signings now on board, more of the same please. There is a good chance that we could finish second this year as we should be stronger and other teams seem to be losing many of their best players so big season ahead.
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31-05-2013 03:13 PM #22
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If we're doing a report card, what players would have got an A+ and what players would have got a dismal F?
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01-06-2013 09:47 AM #23
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I would say that the bit in bold is crucial for me. We have progressed, the team are better than when Fenlon arrived but next season will be huge for us. Fenlon has now had a decent length of time at the club and team next year will be 100% his own.
I'm encouraged by the players we have signed up already and I think we have the right man for the job. It will be a challenge though to turn us into a team that are competing at the right end of the table for the full season. Top 6 is a bare minimum, plus a decent performance in the 2 cups (although I think a 3rd final in a row will be very difficult).
We also need to look at adding more creativity and attacking threat to the team. We saw some great displays last year in spells, followed by some awful games where we looked lost going forward. Even if we can somehow keep Leigh we need to get a couple more players in to share the goals and take the pressure off the shoulders of young Harris, who has already become a vital player for us. We lose him, we lose the only real source of pace and directness currently at the club.
There is a great chance for a club/clubs in Scotland to fill the gap left by Rangers demise and Hibs are one of the best placed to do so. Clubs like Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Inverness etc are all losing players and although that is the case with us, we should be in a much better position to strengthen and make a real push for 2nd.
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03-06-2013 12:33 PM #24
Some of the statements made on this thread are unbelievable. This years team is on paper not much worse than last years? You mustn't have ever watche us this season, even when this season got bad, it was never close to what we witnessed last season. Williams is better than brown, same with Clancy over Doherty, McGivern over kujabi, claros now over past claros, taiwo over osbourne, Thomson over soares. We have improved, if you look at the state we were in last year as a club, if you expected a huge turn around in 12 months for us now to be challenging for top 4, then you clearly have no idea. We have made improvement considering what an utter mess we were last season.
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03-06-2013 12:45 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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03-06-2013 02:39 PM #28This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-06-2013 06:55 AM #29
Eye bleedingly bad football
Was what Pat was subjecting the team and supporters to from the start of this year until just before half time in the cup semi final.
Tippy, tappy. Side to side. Then hoof! No wing play. Men behind the ball. One up, hitting on the break. Doyle and Caldwell on the bench.
This wasn't the Hibs Way and our normally loyal support was starting to drift away.
We finished the season strongly but I can't help wondering how close Pat came to his jotters.
Who/what brought about the change in approach I wonder?
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06-06-2013 07:00 AM #30
We started to play that way when our wingers stopped performing, when we got a decent winger again we were able to play better football.
Pat can only piss with the cock he's got.
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