Delusions of Grandeur. (The thread formerly known as Illusions of grandyoor?)

[beensaidbefore]

I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

[alexhibs]

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I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

No we expect and should expect more than this drivel

[Liberal Hibby]

I dunno - I quite like the idea of illusions of grandeur. It's kind of wistful (and very Hibs).

[beensaidbefore]

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No we expect and should expect more than this drivel

I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

[Wotherspiniesta]

This is my favourite Illusion:

http://andrewpetrosoniak.files.wordp...lusion-man.jpg

[beensaidbefore]

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I dunno - I quite like the idea of illusions of grandeur. It's kind of wistful (and very Hibs).

That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

[beensaidbefore]

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This is my favourite Illusion:

http://andrewpetrosoniak.files.wordp...lusion-man.jpg

personally, this ones my favourite


http://wordsculptures.com/page/wp-co...4/illusion.jpg

[alexhibs]

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I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

Eh? Hibs, thats why

[alexhibs]

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I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC

[TornadoHibby]

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That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

Most definately not!

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!!

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT.

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better!

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday!

[Emerald]

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Most definately not!

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!!

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT.

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better!

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday!

That is exactly where I am.

[Liberal Hibby]

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That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

Except down underneath we know we've never really been any good.

[beensaidbefore]

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Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC

Exactly my point. we are Hibs, and if someone was to stumble accross football in Scotland for the first time, looking at league tables and records of cups, it would be difficult for them to form an opinion that considered us anything other than an also ran.

[Feed McGraw]

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I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

Eh ? Top o the league, semi finals, cups every decade, play like Spanish national team ? Is that what you think the Hibs support expects ? Well, we are even more faithful than I thought we were if that`s the case. Gaun the Hibs support ! BTW, its " DELUSIONS" if you have to use that phrase again.

[beensaidbefore]

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Most definately not!

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!!

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT.

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better!

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday!

I understand exactly what your saying, what im suggesting is although occasionally we have a good season or two, it may be these that are fleeting moments of 'success', in the sense we are playing abpve our station.
I dont feel that languishing in the bottom half is necessarily where we should be, but if all teams fullfilled their potential, and equalled their most successful times, we would still be somewhere nearer the middle of the table than the top.

[beensaidbefore]

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Eh ? Top o the league, semi finals, cups every decade, play like Spanish national team ? Is that what you think the Hibs support expects ? Well, we are even more faithful than I thought we were if that`s the case. Gaun the Hibs support ! BTW, its " DELUSIONS" if you have to use that phrase again.

Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you... My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

[NOLA]

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I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

Shaun lawson should take tips from you.

[beensaidbefore]

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Shaun lawson should take tips from you.

eh?

[Pretty Boy]

I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

[marinello59]

I think the minimum we should expect every season is a League, Cup and X factor treble.
Signed
Arch Duke Marinello the Third.

[#FromTheCapital]

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I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

Spot on.

[Moon unit]

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I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

Delusions of Grandeur....are beliefs firmly held by the cocky bar stewards that reside at the Wongadome! Not by most Hibees,who enjoy the moments when they come along. Speak to the majority of our Pink bus shelter loving friends and they will quote "Big Team, third force,we were better than Liverpool pish"!
I admit that it's a struggle watching Hibs and we all want an improvement in the style of play,but are'nt Deluded enough to think we should win the league and be creaming teams week in week out.
Let the Yambo's live in that world of self importance as the rest of the world ( to their dismay) does not care a Monkeys arse about them!

[BoltonHibee]

In the current set up, we should be finishing or at least challenging heavily for second place in the league. After all, we have been told that everything is in place and that we just need to concentrate on the football. We have an infrastructure that is in the top 3 in Scotland.

We should also expect good cup runs, and the odd cup win. ( perhaps every 2 to 3 year wins, in any of the cup competitions)

The field is open for us to achieve this as a club.

A well run board and good management should be able to deliver this.

[Captain Trips]

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I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

This

[brydekirk]

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Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC

From the Capital

[Captain Trips]

Illusions of not playing the same boring way regardless of opposition, illusions of a club spending millions on infrastructure and having a decent in comparison budget actually showing we have these advantages.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

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Delusions of Grandeur....are beliefs firmly held by the cocky bar stewards that reside at the Wongadome! Not by most Hibees,who enjoy the moments when they come along. Speak to the majority of our Pink bus shelter loving friends and they will quote "Big Team, third force,we were better than Liverpool pish"!
I admit that it's a struggle watching Hibs and we all want an improvement in the style of play,but are'nt Deluded enough to think we should win the league and be creaming teams week in week out.
Let the Yambo's live in that world of self importance as the rest of the world ( to their dismay) does not care a Monkeys arse about them!

[Danderhall Hibs]

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personally, this ones my favourite


http://wordsculptures.com/page/wp-co...4/illusion.jpg

What am I supposed to see? I see an old dear with a head scarf on?

[hibbydog]

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Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you... My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

This is a very good point.

I have fairly modest expectations of Hibs, based on the last 30 or so years evidence where we've won the league cup twice, been relegated twice and had the odd (brief) venture into the uefa cup. But generally we finish around mid table.

You could look at it from the 'size of club' perspective. Based on attendances and trophies, i consider Hibs as the 5th biggest club in the country, behind the old firm hearts (sorry!) and Aberdeen.

So....based on this we should expect to finish 4th in a league without the Huns and win a trophy every now and then. Whilst there will obviously be cycles where we under achieve, like Hibs (and Aberdeen) have done for the last 6 or so years, I suppose this means we should also have periods where we punch above our weight too?!

It doesn't stop the fans having bigger ambitions though, so in reply to your original question, I think the Hibs fans are better described as 'wanting better' rather than having delusions of grandeur.

Cheers

[HFC 0-7]

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Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you... My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

Why do we expect these things? Firstly, because that's what the board are targeting. We have the finances, infrastructure and fan base to achieve these things. We are being overtaken by teams that have only been in the spl for 5 minutes and in the Scottish main leagues for a bit longer. In recent seasons we have been setting records, or being closes to them, for all the wrong reasons such as games without wins etc, so why should we expect more?

in any business if you have a bigger income stream and customer base, better facilities and infrastructure than 10 out of 12 competitors where would you expect to be performing?