West Ham facing inquiry

[Sylar]

I see that West Ham are likely to face some form of action from the FA after the behaviour of their fans at WHL yesterday.

Allegedly (though it was quite audible during the game) Hammers fans were hissing, chanting "Adolf Hitler's coming to get you" and also chanted in reference to the incidents in Rome through the week.

I don't get a lot of chants in football but the anti-Semitic chants at Spurs particularly puzzle me. Don't get me wrong, I know the history etc, but why someone would chant about something as heinous as the Nazi's and genocide to "wind up" opposition fans is beyond the pale to me.

[Geo_1875]

While I agree that this is very offensive to Jews, why is it more offensive than other "popular" football chants.

Are you more or less offended by Man Utd. fans singing about Hillsborough or Liverpool fans singing about Munich?

Are racist chants worse than homophobic songs?

Have you ever taken personal offence at a football chant, or has it always been on behalf of others?

[Hibercelona]

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I see that West Ham are likely to face some form of action from the FA after the behaviour of their fans at WHL yesterday.

Allegedly (though it was quite audible during the game) Hammers fans were hissing, chanting "Adolf Hitler's coming to get you" and also chanted in reference to the incidents in Rome through the week.

I don't get a lot of chants in football but the anti-Semitic chants at Spurs particularly puzzle me. Don't get me wrong, I know the history etc, but why someone would chant about something as heinous as the Nazi's and genocide to "wind up" opposition fans is beyond the pale to me.

Agreed.

Although clubs like Rangers and Hearts are no stranger to that sort of "patter" either.

[Sylar]

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While I agree that this is very offensive to Jews, why is it more offensive than other "popular" football chants.

Are you more or less offended by Man Utd. fans singing about Hillsborough or Liverpool fans singing about Munich?

Are racist chants worse than homophobic songs?

Have you ever taken personal offence at a football chant, or has it always been on behalf of others?

Allow me to clarify.

I didn't say I took offense at any of that from yesterday or indeed generally. Nor do I find the Man Utd chants about Hillsborough/Heysel, Liverpool chants about Munich and the array of racist/homophobic/xenophobic/pro-terrorist chants particularly "offensive" (on a personal level) and I don't whinge about such occurrences. I don't like to hear it and I wish football fans wouldn't do it (indeed, it's the only sport I follow where this has

However, going to the level of referencing genocide and perhaps the most heinous person to ever walk the face of the planet to simply "wind up" opposition fans is poor patter and sadly increasingly indicative of the mentality of the modern football fan - Wind the "other" up by whatever means possible and decency can take a back seat.

[Geo_1875]

I do think some of the things chanted and sung at football matches can be particularly horrible. From folk-songs glorifying terrorists to personal abuse directed at players whether they be black, gay or one-eyed. And while West Ham fans "winding up" Spurs fans with references to the holocaust may be taking it too far, I would rather be offended by someone singing at me than maimed by the bricks, bottles, darts and golf balls that used to come our way in the good old days.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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While I agree that this is very offensive to Jews, why is it more offensive than other "popular" football chants.

Are you more or less offended by Man Utd. fans singing about Hillsborough or Liverpool fans singing about Munich?

Are racist chants worse than homophobic songs?

Have you ever taken personal offence at a football chant, or has it always been on behalf of others?

First They Came .... poem by Martin Niemöller
by thecounterpunch
358 Followers


"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor, best known as the author of the poem First they came....

[Geo_1875]

I know the poem and the poet's story.

What I don't know is how that relates to my point which is that all abuse is equally abhorent.

My aside regarding personal abuse is valid as I wondered if the OP had a victim of direct abuse for any reason.

[marinello59]

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Allow me to clarify.

I didn't say I took offense at any of that from yesterday or indeed generally. Nor do I find the Man Utd chants about Hillsborough/Heysel, Liverpool chants about Munich and the array of racist/homophobic/xenophobic/pro-terrorist chants particularly "offensive" (on a personal level) and I don't whinge about such occurrences. I don't like to hear it and I wish football fans wouldn't do it (indeed, it's the only sport I follow where this has

However, going to the level of referencing genocide and perhaps the most heinous person to ever walk the face of the planet to simply "wind up" opposition fans is poor patter and sadly increasingly indicative of the mentality of the modern football fan - Wind the "other" up by whatever means possible and decency can take a back seat.

Sadly true. The future of the game as a live spectacle will increasingly depend on getting families to attend together. It's a pity the selfish boors who persist in the more vile chants don't see how they make the matches less attractive ..........although they probably do and just don't care.

[yeezus.]

Absolutely disgusting chants. I hope Spurs fans will stop bringing flags with the word "Y** army" on them as well - does my head in - same as those stupid Aberdeen fans dressing up as sheep.

[97hills]

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I know the poem and the poet's story.

What I don't know is how that relates to my point which is that all abuse is equally abhorent.

My aside regarding personal abuse is valid as I wondered if the OP had a victim of direct abuse for any reason.

That's just not true

[greenginger]

I thought the Aberdeen fans response to one of our chants was spot-on.

As soon as our lads started " You're sheep- sh**ging- ********s "

They responded with " We are sheep - sh**ging- ********s "

Only thing missing was the inflatable sheep.

I don't think we heard it again. Kind of takes the venom out of an offensive chant if the opposition agree with it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I know the poem and the poet's story.

What I don't know is how that relates to my point which is that all abuse is equally abhorent.

My aside regarding personal abuse is valid as I wondered if the OP had a victim of direct abuse for any reason.

It relates to your question regarding standing up for or taking offence on behalf of others.

[marinello59]

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I thought the Aberdeen fans response to one of our chants was spot-on.

As soon as our lads started " You're sheep- sh**ging- ********s "

They responded with " We are sheep - sh**ging- ********s "

Only thing missing was the inflatable sheep.

I don't think we heard it again. Kind of takes the venom out of an offensive chant if the opposition agree with it.

The Aberdeen fans neutralised that one years ago yet still some try to wind them up with it. It doesn't wind them up, it fires them up.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Sky Sports news is getting a little boring these days, after every game they spend more time analysing the supporters rather than the game.
The laws went mad, it's only words IMO. It all adds to the banter and atmosphere within the ground.
Over reaction in IMO

Hail Hail

[Hibby70]

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First They Came .... poem by Martin Niemöller
by thecounterpunch
358 Followers


"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor, best known as the author of the poem First they came....

"and if you can't beat them, join them" :)

[joe breezy]

It's one thing that has put me off West Ham to be honest and one of my best mates is West ham - he writes it off as banter but it's delivered with a real nasty venom.

I live in a West Ham district, but also a Jewish one and i have heard pissed West Ham fans go past my house shouting anti semitic stuff at the top of their voices - gas gas gas a Jew and loads of pro Hitler stuff

It's nasty and goes beyond banter

[Geo_1875]

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That's just not true

So what form of abuse do you consider to be most acceptable?

[Sylar]

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Sky Sports news is getting a little boring these days, after every game they spend more time analysing the supporters rather than the game.
The laws went mad, it's only words IMO. It all adds to the banter and atmosphere within the ground.
Over reaction in IMO

Hail Hail

The line dragged out by many of the Old Firm apologists who would defend their right to call you a fe**an or orange b****** - are those acceptable?

Let's go the full hog - is it "banter" to cry "******" at black players (or fans) or "faggot" at gay players/fans?

There has to be a line and chanting about the execution of c.6 million Jews does not constitute as "banter".

[SouthamptonHibs]

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The line dragged out by many of the Old Firm apologists who would defend their right to call you a fe**an or orange b****** - are those acceptable?

Let's go the full hog - is it "banter" to cry "******" at black players (or fans) or "faggot" at gay players/fans?

There has to be a line and chanting about the execution of c.6 million Jews does not constitute as "banter".

It all relates to Historic stuff but as i say it's just words.
I'm not interested in hearing about every Sunday/Monday on sky Sports news as the big story! I' rather they would give better coverage to the lower league's in England and the Scottish leagues rather than go over the same boring stories each week in the EPL. Things like he called me a name, he sang this song, he made that gesture!...Who cares??
IMO it's only words!
Your "Old firm" point
As i've always said especially when it comes to the old firm if you don't like there songs then there's more of us than them at ER we should just sing louder than them.

[Pete]

The "line" has to be the law and singing about the holocaust crosses it.
However, they're also getting hammered for singing about Lazio which I think is different. It might be "offensive" but so what. Groups of young men sing offensive songs at each other and they were singing it to offend the spurs fans and nobody else.
More and more people are expressing negative opinions regarding songs that aren't directly in support of the team. They are forgetting that tribalism is what makes football what it is and for me, goading and taunting the other fans is half the fun(when I don't have the kid with me).
There are places for both families and the rougher element at football but I believe they should be kept seperate.
If we're not careful football will turn into stands full of mums with kids eating pizza slices...with a no sweary word policy.

[cabbageandribs1875]

how the **** can it be banter glorifying the most evil ******* EVER to have walked on gods earth ffs rotting in hell is far FAR too good for that ****


that is all

[The Green Goblin]

For me, the real question is why do they still do it? How can that still happen, in 2012? What is it that is or is not taking place in society which is failing to prevent people from adopting that mentality and hatred? I don't know the answer. The second world war was a long time ago, and yet it seems people are no further forward. It's likely that some of those fans' or their friends' grandparents or great-grandparents fought in WW2? And what would they think if they could see this? If you step back, and take everything that happened over the last century, it's as much a puzzle as it is tragic that we are really no further on than still having to deal with this trashy, unpleasant, ignorant nonsense.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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For me, the real question is why do they still do it? How can that still happen, in 2012? What is it that is or is not taking place in society which is failing to prevent people from adopting that mentality and hatred? I don't know the answer. The second world war was a long time ago, and yet it seems people are no further forward. It's likely that some of those fans' or their friends' grandparents or great-grandparents fought in WW2? And what would they think if they could see this? If you step back, and take everything that happened over the last century, it's as much a puzzle as it is tragic that we are really no further on than still having to deal with this trashy, unpleasant, ignorant nonsense.

it's a total lack of respect and most likely a total lack of education as well

[lyonhibs]

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Absolutely disgusting chants. I hope Spurs fans will stop bringing flags with the word "Y** army" on them as well - does my head in - same as those stupid Aberdeen fans dressing up as sheep.

You are kidding right??

[jacomo]

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While I agree that this is very offensive to Jews, why is it more offensive than other "popular" football chants.

Are you more or less offended by Man Utd. fans singing about Hillsborough or Liverpool fans singing about Munich?

Are racist chants worse than homophobic songs?

Have you ever taken personal offence at a football chant, or has it always been on behalf of others?

I for one am very happy to take offence at this behaviour on behalf of anyone who might have heard it. It's in a different league to mocking about Hillsborough or Munich IMO.

[johnrebus]

Saw West Ham at St James Park a couple of weeks back and they were a right boring lot.

Only song they sang all day was ' I'm forever blowing bubbles'.

Started to grate just a bit, especially after the thirtieth time.................,

[Newry Hibs]

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It's one thing that has put me off West Ham to be honest and one of my best mates is West ham - he writes it off as banter but it's delivered with a real nasty venom.

I live in a West Ham district, but also a Jewish one and i have heard pissed West Ham fans go past my house shouting anti semitic stuff at the top of their voices - gas gas gas a Jew and loads of pro Hitler stuff

It's nasty and goes beyond banter

I suspect that these are the types of people who will go on about gays when playing Brighton or fires when playing Bradford. Anything for a reaction to show that they really don't care (as no one likes them). I suspect they have nothing better to do with their lives then live up to an expectation of 'We're West Ham / Chelsea / Millwall* - this is what we do'.

Attention seeking and looking for a fight. I wonder if they know any reason why they shouldn't like Jews (not that there are any IMO)?

*The three worst sets of fans in my experience

[Geo_1875]

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I for one am very happy to take offence at this behaviour on behalf of anyone who might have heard it. It's in a different league to mocking about Hillsborough or Munich IMO.

So which is more acceptable in your eyes?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Are West Ham not one of those clubs that goes for Poppy kissing in a big way? If they are, then the irony of this is obviously lost on them.

Good to see our own linguistic fascists are using semantics to justify unacceptable songs, once again. I'm sure, if we keep going someone is going to say it is OK to call disabled people Spasmo because they aren't actually *******s.

Basically it's a case of - if life's given you a bum deal, get over it.

[LeighLoyal]

Gold and Sullivan are such good guys right enough, porn kings.