Neil Doncaster on financial fair play

[hibs0666]

What does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.

This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.

To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time.

So what you going to do about the yams then Neil? Over to you...

[matty_f]

When everything was kicking off with Rangers, the one thing I maintained was that I didn't want to see them hammered beyond what they'd done, I just wanted to see them treated as any other club would be.

With that in mind, the Yams must face the same sanctions as Rangers did for this particular offence. IIRC it was the maximum fine and a year long transfer embargo.

[Sylar]

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What does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.

This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.

To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time.

So what you going to do about the yams then Neil? Over to you...

He would argue that the SPL have already acted by imposing a registration embargo on them.

They have said that the SPL have been informed about the latest developments and will monitor the situation with a view to further punishment.

What can they realistically do though? Fine is pointless (as they won't be able to afford it), they can't deduct points as they're not in administration or the likes and they're already banned from signing players.

[hibs0666]

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He would argue that the SPL have already acted by imposing a registration embargo on them.

They have said that the SPL have been informed about the latest developments and will monitor the situation with a view to further punishment.

What can they realistically do though? Fine is pointless (as they won't be able to afford it), they can't deduct points as they're not in administration or the likes and they're already banned from signing players.

The temporary registration embargo was imposed for the separate offence of not paying players. I'm with Matty - a year's signing ban and hefty fine is the only fair way to deal with these mob and their tainted trophies.

[euansdad]

As much as I also hate rangers, they have every right to scrutinise what is going to happen to hearts

[green glory]

I'd be more interested in looking into the SC game. That comes under the jurisdiction of the SFA.

[Vini1875]

I think everyone has to wait and see what is going to happen with the taxman. Fines and signing embargos etc, may will be the least of it if they go out of business.

[Makaveli]

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I'd be more interested in looking into the SC game. That comes under the jurisdiction of the SFA.

Now that it has become clear they only got into the final thanks to a goal scored by a player (Beattie) signed at a point when they were withholding tax, what should/can be done?

This obviously ignores the point that both Beattie and Skacel (the former scoring against us in the SPL and getting them into the final, the latter instrumental in that final) were signed after HoMFC had failed to pay existing staff contracts.

By any definition, we were cheated.

[hibs0666]

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Now that it has become clear they only got into the final thanks to a goal scored by a player (Beattie) signed at a point when they were withholding tax, what should/can be done?

This obviously ignores the point that both Beattie and Skacel (the former scoring against us in the SPL and getting them into the final, the latter instrumental in that final) were signed after HoMFC had failed to pay existing staff contracts.

By any definition, we were cheated.

Yup, financial doping = tainted trophies = severe SFA and SPL penalties.

[JimBHibees]

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He would argue that the SPL have already acted by imposing a registration embargo on them.

They have said that the SPL have been informed about the latest developments and will monitor the situation with a view to further punishment.

What can they realistically do though? Fine is pointless (as they won't be able to afford it), they can't deduct points as they're not in administration or the likes and they're already banned from signing players.

Extend the transfer embargo and have a suspended points deduction if they breach again.

[bingo70]

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He would argue that the SPL have already acted by imposing a registration embargo on them.

They have said that the SPL have been informed about the latest developments and will monitor the situation with a view to further punishment.

What can they realistically do though? Fine is pointless (as they won't be able to afford it), they can't deduct points as they're not in administration or the likes and they're already banned from signing players.

Being in administration isn't the only reason points can be deducted and I'm sure its an option available to the SPL.

[Sylar]

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Extend the transfer embargo and have a suspended points deduction if they breach again.

That's probably the only reasonable thing they can do IMO.

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hefty fine

Paid with what money? Unless the SPL suggest it be deducted from future earnings (i.e., gate receipts/competition placement/TV income), but then that's not really in the SPL's interest as taking revenue away from them will all but certainly force Hearts either into admin or worse.

As much as most on here would love to see that, I doubt the SPL want to go through this all over again...

[hibs0666]

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That's probably the only reasonable thing they can do IMO.



Paid with what money? Unless the SPL suggest it be deducted from future earnings (i.e., gate receipts/competition placement/TV income), but then that's not really in the SPL's interest as taking revenue away from them will all but certainly force Hearts either into admin or worse.

As much as most on here would love to see that, I doubt the SPL want to go through this all over again...

Being potless didn't stop the SFA imposing a £160K fine on the huns,, and it shouldn't be used as a reason for not fining the yams either.

[FromTheCapital]

What happens to Hearts if they do a Rangers? Will they be stripped of the Scottish Cup?
Not being desperate or that but just wondering.

[--------]

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What happens to Hearts if they do a Rangers? Will they be stripped of the Scottish Cup?
Not being desperate or that but just wondering.

It would depend (I think) on the legality or illegality of the details of the contracts between the club and the players who played for them in the Final.

If any of those players were signed illegally, I think the Final would have to be declared void. I don't know whether they would award the Cup to Hibs - personally, if we were offered, I'd hope we'd have the dignity either to decline to accept it, or suggest that we play off for it against Celtic at Hampden with the world of football being informed via Sky and the Beeb that the match is happening because Heart of Midlothian cheated both clubs rotten.

[Caversham Green]

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What happens to Hearts if they do a Rangers? Will they be stripped of the Scottish Cup?
Not being desperate or that but just wondering.

Doubtful. Rangers are being threatened with the stripping of titles because they allegedly concealed details of players contracts from the football authorities. HoMFC aren't being accused of that yet.

[JeMeSouviens]

Good question. It's pretty much crystal clear they've been cheating this season. You don't run up a paye/vat bill of half a million quid overnight and they were signing new players they clearly couldn't afford just over 2 months ago (Ryan Stevenson and Peter Enckelman). This is the sort of behaviour Craig Whyte got up to with the Huns that was described as second only to match fixing by an SFA tribunal.

Last season is less clear cut I think but whatever happens officially we all know ... and they all know ... and they all know we all know that they're a bunch of cheats. They'll still crow about it but it's so hollow they can't possibly really get much genuine satisfaction, surely?

[LeighLoyal]

According the HunFA and HunFL they'd get to keep their history despite being a completly new club... dah di dah di dah...




That'll be shining bright! They will be a new club with no history just like Sevco. :fenlon

[Sylar]

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Being potless didn't stop the SFA imposing a £160K fine on the huns,, and it shouldn't be used as a reason for not fining the yams either.

I guess not but it doesn't make it any less valid that it's a stupid punishment to impose on a club who are in the financial mire - I felt the same when they imposed it on Rangers - it's a token punishment which will never be fulfilled.

Besides - I'd rather see creditors get any money the club aquire than it going into the coffers of the SPL/SFA.

[greenginger]

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Doubtful. Rangers are being threatened with the stripping of titles because they allegedly concealed details of players contracts from the football authorities. HoMFC aren't being accused of that yet.

I am Cav, there is no way Skacel was playing for the Yams for only £150,000 per year as per his contract.

[euansdad]

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Good question. It's pretty much crystal clear they've been cheating this season. You don't run up a paye/vat bill of half a million quid overnight and they were signing new players they clearly couldn't afford just over 2 months ago (Ryan Stevenson and Peter Enckelman). This is the sort of behaviour Craig Whyte got up to with the Huns that was described as second only to match fixing by an SFA tribunal.

Last season is less clear cut I think but whatever happens officially we all know ... and they all know ... and they all know we all know that they're a bunch of cheats. They'll still crow about it but it's so hollow they can't possibly really get much genuine satisfaction, surely?

They cling on to anything and delude themselves so yes, they probably will justify it to themselves

[lapsedhibee]

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I am Cav, there is no way Skacel was playing for the Yams for only £150,000 per year as per his contract.

What a shame it would be if publicity surrounding that particular player led to the stripping of yam honours.

[Drewster]

Hearts and Rangers have clearly cheated their way to success over the last few years, and their honours should be removed from
the records and they should be banned from competing for a period of time or their membership should suspended/terminated?

In future, any team which recklessly places their member Club in a similar financial situation should suffer the same fate.

The governing bodies in Scotland could have restrictions on the percentage of turnover which Clubs can be spend on players, but in
reality this is possibly unworkable - member clubs who have sacrificed spending on players in the past to invest in infrastructure may
now be in a position to spend larger percentages of turnover on players, whereas teams like Hearts FC who have neglected their
stadium and mismanaged their accounts are clearly not!

Severe penalties for cheating is possibly is the only answer, despite the pain to innocent fans and supporters who backed their Clubs?