BBC cost of football survey - Hibs refuse to respond

[Dalkeith]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19842397

no hibs info

[wearethehibs]

Wonder why were not on it?

Looking at that I cant believe that anyone would buy a pie from a football stadium. But 100s of people do, despite there usually being bakery's not far from most grounds.

[HH81]

So if you want cheap football the women's super league is the answer :-).

[Gatecrasher]

Hibs would actually come out not too bad among the other teams imo

[VickMackie]

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Wonder why were not on it?

Looking at that I cant believe that anyone would buy a pie from a football stadium. But 100s of people do, despite there usually being bakery's not far from most grounds.

Probably because there's one of these tables out every couple of months and the fact that st prices vary widely.

It does make us look petty IMO.

It's interesting to see the big clubs with the smaller stadiums in the EPL have horrendous minimum prices to try and maximise their match day income.

[Beefster]

Very poor show by Hibs to refuse to give details.

[Skanko79]

4 quid for a pie at kidderminster!!

[The Sea-gull]

Don't want to have a go as there may be reasons but it is a poor show that in a survey published by the national broadcaster that the club has chosen not to respond. Looks like we are about the only ones who haven't got back to them.

I haven't appreciated the over-zealous way the media has had a go about Hibs in the last 2 or 3 years and have posted as such on here but our performance on the pitch gave them plenty ammo and our reputation as being a club that does not co-operate well with the media and external agencies doesn't do us any favours and I can maybe see why they stick the boot in when given the opportunity.

Things like this survey highlight that. It isn't a massive deal and is not the end of the world but dress it up anyway you like, it looks bad that we haven't taken part. Worse than if we had come out as having had high prices.

[KeithTheHibby]

Hibs topped this league last year and no figures for this year, make what you want of that...

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Hibs topped this league last year and no figures for this year, make what you want of that...

IIRC, Hibs were not happy about the way the figures were presented last year. The BBC made them out to be the most expensive club in Scotland, yet took no account of relative discounts for kids, OAPs and so on. The survey only lists standard adult prices.

[YehButNoBut]

Looks like, even more so in the present financial climate, that players are going to have to be more realistic in their wage demands as more clubs than ever are struggling to make ends meet. Players expectations of salaries still seem way above what clubs can afford to pay and until that changes clubs will struggle to make a profit and the cost to attend a football match will stay high.

Below from todays Record.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...e-cuts-1385030

SCOTS footballers face pay freezes or cuts as struggling SPL clubs strive to live within their means, according to a report.

Most top league clubs don’t expect to make any money this season.

And while bosses try to reduce their wage bills, many players and their agents are still demanding big salaries.

Accounting and business advice firm PKF said that could lead to a “widening gap” between wages here and those in England.

That in turn could threaten the future development of the game north of the Border as clubs here will struggle to attract top players.PKF’s annual football survey, Leagues Apart, showed that two-thirds of Scottish Premier League clubs don’t expect to make a profit for the 2012-13 season.

Only 17 per cent said their financial situation was “healthy” – the lowest of any of the leagues questioned.Two-thirds of SPL clubs depend on their principal shareholder to cover losses.

Six SPL teams took part in the study, along with clubs in the English Premier League, Championship and Leagues One and Two – a total of 62.

A third of SPL sides reported they would pay first team players the same as last year, while two-thirds said they would pay less.However, transfer budgets will stay the same.

Charles Barnett, head of the football industry group at PKF, said: “There is clear evidence that clubs are absorbing some of the financial lessons of the last decade and are reducing wages to turnover to ensure they operate within a manageable ratio.

“However, it is also equally clear that players and their agents may not have absorbed this lesson and are continuing to demand wages which are untenable for the majority of Scottish clubs.

“The result is likely to be a widening gap between the wages players are paid in Scotland compared with their English counterparts.

“This will have worrying ramifications for the development of Scottish football as it is unlikely SPL teams will attract top players in the same way as clubs in England which will, in turn, widen the gap between wages in Scotland and England.”

SPL clubs’ income fell across the board in the 2011-12 season.

The biggest concern for the coming season was a drop in TV cash, followed by falling attendances at games due to the poor state of the economy. A third of SPL clubs believe the state of the economy will cause all sources of revenue to be down in 2012-13, apart from corporate entertainment.

And Rangers dropping down to the Third Division may have made things worse.

Barnett said: “It is likely that the financial concerns of many SPL teams will be heightened with the loss of Rangers from the league.

“It is likely that some clubs will now be predicting an even greater fall in revenue and further worries about whether they can manage the gap between expenditure and income which the departure of Rangers has undoubtedly precipitated.

“The problem is that many SPL clubs were facing a difficult year anyway but the changed circumstances of the league mean those difficulties may have become exacerbated.

“Nobody can deny these are worrying times for Scottish football. But there may be something more positive which arises.

“For example, this season Rangers are substantially increasing revenues among Third Division teams.”

[Mikey]

I caught the very start of the phone in on Radio 5 while in the car and the phrase "fleecing the fans" was used in pretty much the first sentence.

Surely the fans are only being fleeced if the owner is trousering the money? The reason prices are high at any club is to put players on the park.

Until Sky stop pumping millions into England, and players salaries drop, then fans in Scotland (in particular) will pay over the odds for what they're seeing.

[500miles]

You can have cheaper football, as long as you're willing to allow the standard on show to drop further. That's the bottom line, because there's no much lining of pockets to be done in the SPL as things are anyway.

[500miles]

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So if you want cheap football the women's super league is the answer :-).

And if I want cheap vodka, ill drink tattie peelings and antifreeze!

[Biffa Bacon]

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IIRC, Hibs were not happy about the way the figures were presented last year. The BBC made them out to be the most expensive club in Scotland, yet took no account of relative discounts for kids, OAPs and so on. The survey only lists standard adult prices.

The survey can't cover every discounted deal offered by every club (or it would be too complicated). For a 'standard adult' (which a large number of the fans will be) Hibs are one of the most expensive in the SPL.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I caught the very start of the phone in on Radio 5 while in the car and the phrase "fleecing the fans" was used in pretty much the first sentence.

Surely the fans are only being fleeced if the owner is trousering the money? The reason prices are high at any club is to put players on the park.

Until Sky stop pumping millions into England, and players salaries drop, then fans in Scotland (in particular) will pay over the odds for what they're seeing.

Sky is in effect the king maker in the UK (England prosper whilst Scotland withers on the vine) and it's also got it's grubby hands on Brazilan football - anyone fancy paying a subscription and the ppv for the Classico games?

Out of interest did any of the studies determine where the money goes? Players, agents and lawyers are the real winners

[Mikey]

That Radio 5 programme has been on for 20 minutes and finally someone has made the link to players wages. The Man City fan who seems to want to go back to the age of 11 quid season tickets would do well to listen.

How many 11 quid season tickets would it take to pay Vincent Kompany's wages?

[jonty]

If its just standard adult prices, then the BBC could have gathered the ST prices at the start of the season, monitored the clubs website prices and over the course of the season so far, popped into a game to gather prices on food and drink. All of the information is in the public domain.

It used to be called market research. Now it appears to have been rebranded as lazy journalism.

[basehibby]

OBSCENE! Especially in the EPL - where they get ridiculous amounts of cash thrown at them by the TV companies and STILL seek to suck the cash out of their loyal supporters with vastly over inflated prices for everything possible. It disgusts me that rather than making an effort to bring value for money to their fan bases, all of these clubs choose instead to chuck a few million more at the already over-bloated wallets of their spoiled rotten "stars" . Football supporters - treated like **** by the authorities and taken for mugs at every turn by the clubs we follow - what did we do to deserve this?!?

[portyfelly]

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I caught the very start of the phone in on Radio 5 while in the car and the phrase "fleecing the fans" was used in pretty much the first sentence.

Surely the fans are only being fleeced if the owner is trousering the money? The reason prices are high at any club is to put players on the park.

Until Sky stop pumping millions into England, and players salaries drop, then fans in Scotland (in particular) will pay over the odds for what they're seeing.

I do not know if this is a solution it just seems reasonable to me.

Currently season tickets across the country range from around 300 - 600 and average 23 per game. The result is the attendances we currently have.
I think that we should consider reducing gate prices.

If a season ticket at Easter road was say... 200 to 250 and games were priced at 20 I reckon we could maximise our support. The increased numbers would generate the same if not more income than current pricing does.
This would have knock on effects
1. Better atmosphere
2. More add on sales in the ground. pies etc
3. More sales at the shop

Is this too simple a solution?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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The survey can't cover every discounted deal offered by every club (or it would be too complicated). For a 'standard adult' (which a large number of the fans will be) Hibs are one of the most expensive in the SPL.

And for the discounted pricing they're one of the least expensive. Hence why the club were unhappy that this survey was cherry picking one statistic and trying to create a cheap headline out of it.

[Mikey]

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I do not know if this is a solution it just seems reasonable to me.

Currently season tickets across the country range from around 300 - 600 and average 23 per game. The result is the attendances we currently have.
I think that we should consider reducing gate prices.

If a season ticket at Easter road was say... 200 to 250 and games were priced at 20 I reckon we could maximise our support. The increased numbers would generate the same if not more income than current pricing does.
This would have knock on effects
1. Better atmosphere
2. More add on sales in the ground. pies etc
3. More sales at the shop

Is this too simple a solution?

Here's a wee job for you. Away and find another club that's done the same and it's worked for them.

See ye later

Remember Motherwell did this and ended up in administration, and I'm sure there are other examples. What would happen to Hibs if they tried that and their income halved?

[Pretty Boy]

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I do not know if this is a solution it just seems reasonable to me.

Currently season tickets across the country range from around 300 - 600 and average 23 per game. The result is the attendances we currently have.
I think that we should consider reducing gate prices.

If a season ticket at Easter road was say... 200 to 250 and games were priced at 20 I reckon we could maximise our support. The increased numbers would generate the same if not more income than current pricing does.
This would have knock on effects
1. Better atmosphere
2. More add on sales in the ground. pies etc
3. More sales at the shop

Is this too simple a solution?

Has it ever been proven that lower prices equals more fans?

I just don't see that a £4 reduction on walk up prices would have hundreds or thousands flocking back to ER.

I'm all for creative pricing to attract fans back, perhaps a family ticket or top up card, but imo the slash the prices argument is unproven and a bit simplistic.

[portyfelly]

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Here's a wee job for you. Away and find another club that's done the same and it's worked for them.

See ye later

Remember Motherwell did this and ended up in administration, and I'm sure there are other examples. What would happen to Hibs if they tried that and their income halved?

In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables:

[Mikey]

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In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables:

That's nice for them. If they charged their fans more, and could afford better players, they might not be 9 points off the top of the table

[jonty]

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In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables:

Its certinly something that fans would like to see, but I guess that tampering with a 'well proven/traditional' formula during a recession isn't the kind of risk that clubs are willing to take.

If Hibs were to offer a £25 ticket for local rail (or bus) fare and entry to a game, it may encourage more fans.
A huge logistical hurdle for hibs though - having to link up with scotrail, lothian buses, stagecoach etc
On the other hand, some fans just dont have the time or funds.

[Pretty Boy]

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In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables:

Germany also has a population of 80+ million. Lot more potential fans to cram in at the cheap prices.

Scotland is already punching above It's weight with the percentage of the population who attends football matches.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables:

There are more people in the metropolitan area surrounding Dortmund (7.3 million) than there are in the whole of Scotland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr_Metropolitan_Region

There are no more than 10 professional football clubs in that region, of whom only two (Schalke and Dortmund) are regularly in the top division nowadays. Whereas in Scotland you have 20-odd fully professional clubs competing for less people.

Dortmund (and Schalke) therefore have a much bigger supporter base and less competition. It's admirable they've kept the ticket prices down but they are able to generate vast revenues from the wider support base (selling shirts, TV rights) that simply isn't available to SPL clubs.

[LancashireHibby]

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4 quid for a pie at kidderminster!!

A mate of mine reckons that's for a home-made cottage pie that they sell though, so you're paying for something decent rather than the usual cremated mass produced pie.

[hibee92]

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport
#BBCPriceofFootball reveals average price of cheapest ticket in English football has risen 11.7% in 12 months - five times rate of inflation

Mental.