European League.

[DH1875]

The talk of this European league has got me thinking. If your picking, who's your top 18 teams to go in it?

Here's mines.

1) Real Madrid.
2) Barcelona.
3) Valencia.
4) Benfica.
5) Porto.
6) Sporting Lisbon.
7) Marseille.
8) Lyon.
9) PSG.
10) Bayern.
11) Dortmund.
12) Juve.
13) Inter.
14) AC Milan.
15) Man Utd.
16) Man City.
17) Chelsea.
18) Ajax.


OK so how the duck do Celtic and the newco fit into that? Haven't even got the likes of Arsenal, Napoli, A.Madrid or Anderlect in there never mind your teams from the likes of Turkey, Greece and Russia .

[Ozyhibby]

Only Charles Green is talking about a full European League. Surely we are not taking anything he says seriously.
What is being talked about are regional European leagues for smaller countries. This is increasingly likely as the gap between the big 5 euro leagues and all the rest has become huge to the point where big clubs like Ajax can no longer compete and have become feeder clubs for the European elite.

[Antifa Hibs]

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Only Charles Green is talking about a full European League. Surely we are not taking anything he says seriously.
What is being talked about are regional European leagues for smaller countries. This is increasingly likely as the gap between the big 5 euro leagues and all the rest has become huge to the point where big clubs like Ajax can no longer compete and have become feeder clubs for the European elite.

Any links to this? What's being talked about? Doing away with domestic leagues or talking about an extra regionalised comp to go along side domestic fitba and the europa/champs league?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Charles Green was banging on about "big clubs subsidising small clubs" during the week. New club, same arrogant attitude.

I see nothing wrong with change in football to make it more varied or exciting. But the driving force behind the idea of European Leagues is money, pure and simple.

If the current folk in charge of the "big" European and British clubs have their way, what we will end up with is a Baseball scenario where you have the major league clubs and the triple A clubs who just act as feeder clubs for the big boys, but with no hope of ever being invited to the party.

Thats what football has to avoid like the plague .... a scenario where you have the bigger clubs leaving the rest behind. These may be the biggest clubs, but their headlong rush to make money could disaffect thousands and thousands of fans.

[alexedwards]

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The talk of this European league has got me thinking. If your picking, who's your top 18 teams to go in it?

Here's mines.

1) Real Madrid.
2) Barcelona.
3) Valencia.
4) Benfica.
5) Porto.
6) Sporting Lisbon.
7) Marseille.
8) Lyon.
9) PSG.
10) Bayern.
11) Dortmund.
12) Juve.
13) Inter.
14) AC Milan.
15) Man Utd.
16) Man City.
17) Chelsea.
18) Ajax.


OK so how the duck do Celtic and the newco fit into that? Haven't even got the likes of Arsenal, Napoli, A.Madrid or Anderlect in there never mind your teams from the likes of Turkey, Greece and Russia .

Understanding is it is a North Euro League being considered (scotland, denmark, finland, sweden & norway). The point being to attract a larger tv audience to compare to the larger euro countries while maintaining a current scottish league structure. Mr Green has taken it a bit too far and has his own understanding which is wide off the mark.

[basehibby]

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Charles Green was banging on about "big clubs subsidising small clubs" during the week. New club, same arrogant attitude.

I see nothing wrong with change in football to make it more varied or exciting. But the driving force behind the idea of European Leagues is money, pure and simple.

If the current folk in charge of the "big" European and British clubs have their way, what we will end up with is a Baseball scenario where you have the major league clubs and the triple A clubs who just act as feeder clubs for the big boys, but with no hope of ever being invited to the party.

Thats what football has to avoid like the plague .... a scenario where you have the bigger clubs leaving the rest behind. These may be the biggest clubs, but their headlong rush to make money could disaffect thousands and thousands of fans.

they don't care about fans - it's the glory hunting couch potato market they're interested in.

[ScottB]

Not entirely sure how such a thing would work.

Seems a good idea on paper to strengthen the smaller leagues, but if UEFA allow them to merge, how do they stop the big leagues doing the same? I doubt that would stand up in court. I'm sure, for example, the top Dutch sides would rather join the Bundesliga than compete against the Belgians for example.

So say you take some teams from Scotland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. How does promotion / relegation work? Would a Scottish side only join if a Scottish one was relegated etc.


A change could be good though. I'm sure we are all to different extents bored of seeing us play the same few clubs up to 5 or even 6 times a season...

[jgl07]

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Understanding is it is a North Euro League being considered (scotland, denmark, finland, sweden & norway). The point being to attract a larger tv audience to compare to the larger euro countries while maintaining a current scottish league structure. Mr Green has taken it a bit too far and has his own understanding which is wide off the mark.

I can't see a North Euro League attracting much TV money or matchday income. It is daft to think that such a League would have similar pulling power to the EPL, Serie A, the Bundesliga or La Liga.

It sounds like a non-starter to include Scotland in a Scandinavian League.

There are no really big clubs. FC Copenhagen can attract crowds of up to 25,000. Norway, Sweden and Denmark average around 7,000 to 8,000 and Finland less that 2,500 (less that SFL1). The top clubs in each League would benefit from a merger and it would be a well balanced and competitive League. Adding Celtic (or even Sevco) would unbalance it as well as increasing transport costs for all concerned.

[DH1875]

Green was banging on about the likes of Real Madrid and Man U though. Nothing to do with a North Atlantic league type thing . He said that the likes of Man U would get fed up subsidizing the likes of Southampton and would rather play in this European league which the newco would be part of. Like I said before though, how the hell does he figure they'd be invited to take part and just who are this newco subsidizing these days .

[poolman]

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The talk of this European league has got me thinking. If your picking, who's your top 18 teams to go in it?

Here's mines.

1) Real Madrid.
2) Barcelona.
3) Valencia.
4) Benfica.
5) Porto.
6) Sporting Lisbon.
7) Marseille.
8) Lyon.
9) PSG.
10) Bayern.
11) Dortmund.
12) Juve.
13) Inter.
14) AC Milan.
15) Man Utd.
16) Man City.
17) Chelsea.
18) Ajax.


OK so how the duck do Celtic and the newco fit into that? Haven't even got the likes of Arsenal, Napoli, A.Madrid or Anderlect in there never mind your teams from the likes of Turkey, Greece and Russia .

Total Mickey Mouse league that without "Newco"

CG isny the CEO of world famous"The Rangers" for nothing ye ken

[hibsbollah]

We had a similar discussion before. The list youve got isnt wide of the mark, but excludes some massive clubs in England, Holland (PSV, Feyenoord) some of the moneybags eastern European and Russian clubs would be elbowing their way in too. You're well into the thirties before Celtic or a pre-February 2012 Rangers would even get a sniff of an invite at this hypothetical 'snouts in the money trough' party. Which in real terms already exists in the form of the Champions League.

Green ought to concern himself with how to get past Stirling Albion first.

[hibs0666]

The league would then be made up as follows:

• Germany: 5 clubs
• France: 4 clubs
• England: 3 clubs
• Italy: 3 clubs
• Spain: 2 clubs
• Netherlands: 1 club

That league would cover about 315 million people or so whilst concentrating the wealth into the smallest group of greedy barstewards as possible.

[Ozyhibby]

Why would a team like Man U leave the current set up where they manage to make mega money playing in two leagues.
Any European league reconstruction is likely to involve a consolidation of smaller leagues to help them compete with the bigger leagues.
The Champions league would likely stay as it is.
A northern European league would not be as big as the premiership but would be a big enough draw to allow our clubs to be more competitive.

Here is a twenty team league which all teams can boast average gates above 10,000.

FC CopenhagenDenmark
Rosenborg BKNorway
SK BrannNorway
Brondby IFDenmark
AIKSweden
Viking FKNorway
ValerengaNorway
Fredrikstad FKNorway
Malmo FFSweden
Hammarby IFSweden
Helsinborgs IFSweden
Alesunds FKNorway
Djugardens IFSweden
Aarhus GF
IFK Gothenburg
Aberdeen Scotland
Celtic Scotland
Hearts Scotland
Hibs Scotland
Sevco Scotland

A league of that quality would attract a far better TV deal and sponsorship opportunities, especially if it was a summer league. It might allow our clubs to at least compete with the championship for players again.
What about the teams left behind? Nothing to stop this being a two tier stricture. If a club like Motherwell do well then they can be promoted.
I personally don't think our current set up is sustainable as we are falling further and further behind the rest of Europe.

[DH1875]

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Why would a team like Man U leave the current set up where they manage to make mega money playing in two leagues.
Any European league reconstruction is likely to involve a consolidation of smaller leagues to help them compete with the bigger leagues.
The Champions league would likely stay as it is.
A northern European league would not be as big as the premiership but would be a big enough draw to allow our clubs to be more competitive.

Here is a twenty team league which all teams can boast average gates above 10,000.

FC CopenhagenDenmark
Rosenborg BKNorway
SK BrannNorway
Brondby IFDenmark
AIKSweden
Viking FKNorway
ValerengaNorway
Fredrikstad FKNorway
Malmo FFSweden
Hammarby IFSweden
Helsinborgs IFSweden
Alesunds FKNorway
Djugardens IFSweden
Aarhus GF
IFK Gothenburg
Aberdeen Scotland
Celtic Scotland
Hearts Scotland
Hibs Scotland
Sevco Scotland

A league of that quality would attract a far better TV deal and sponsorship opportunities, especially if it was a summer league. It might allow our clubs to at least compete with the championship for players again.
What about the teams left behind? Nothing to stop this being a two tier stricture. If a club like Motherwell do well then they can be promoted.
I personally don't think our current set up is sustainable as we are falling further and further behind the rest of Europe.

How would it work for say Motherwell to get promoted if Aarhus were to finish bottom? Do you reckon the Dutch and/or the Belgian teams would be brought on board? Anyone know what size of crowds HJK get.

[Ozyhibby]

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How would it work for say Motherwell to get promoted if Aarhus were to finish bottom? Do you reckon the Dutch and/or the Belgian teams would be brought on board? Anyone know what size of crowds HJK get.

Then that's what would happen in a two tier structure. With two leagues of twenty then you could have all the Scottish teams in the second division. Unlikely, but it would be totally meritocratic.
If the Dutch became involved then the structure would have to be two tier as they would bring another 15 teams with attendances above 10k. They would also improve the size of the media Market considerably and therefore the league would be richer.

[VickMackie]

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Green was banging on about the likes of Real Madrid and Man U though. Nothing to do with a North Atlantic league type thing . He said that the likes of Man U would get fed up subsidizing the likes of Southampton and would rather play in this European league which the newco would be part of. Like I said before though, how the hell does he figure they'd be invited to take part and just who are this newco subsidizing these days .

Man utd are one of the main advocates of splitting the tv money fairly throughout the league because it keeps the league stronger.

[alexedwards]

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Why would a team like Man U leave the current set up where they manage to make mega money playing in two leagues.
Any European league reconstruction is likely to involve a consolidation of smaller leagues to help them compete with the bigger leagues.
The Champions league would likely stay as it is.
A northern European league would not be as big as the premiership but would be a big enough draw to allow our clubs to be more competitive.

Here is a twenty team league which all teams can boast average gates above 10,000.

FC CopenhagenDenmark
Rosenborg BKNorway
SK BrannNorway
Brondby IFDenmark
AIKSweden
Viking FKNorway
ValerengaNorway
Fredrikstad FKNorway
Malmo FFSweden
Hammarby IFSweden
Helsinborgs IFSweden
Alesunds FKNorway
Djugardens IFSweden
Aarhus GF
IFK Gothenburg
Aberdeen Scotland
Celtic Scotland
Hearts Scotland
Hibs Scotland
Sevco Scotland

A league of that quality would attract a far better TV deal and sponsorship opportunities, especially if it was a summer league. It might allow our clubs to at least compete with the championship for players again.
What about the teams left behind? Nothing to stop this being a two tier stricture. If a club like Motherwell do well then they can be promoted.
I personally don't think our current set up is sustainable as we are falling further and further behind the rest of Europe.

This is more the area they will look at but along an extended Champions League competition format. The sponsors/advertisers will pay more to reach an overall wider audience - that is pretty straight forward marketing principles.

[lyonhibs]

Who in their right mind is going to be travelling to Scandinavia every other week to watch Hibs play? You'd be bankrupt in about 3 months.

Daft idea from a fans POV to be honest.

[Ozyhibby]

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Who in their right mind is going to be travelling to Scandinavia every other week to watch Hibs play? You'd be bankrupt in about 3 months.

Daft idea from a fans POV to be honest.

More than 90% of Hibs fans won't travel to Dunfermline to watch Hibs.
In a bigger league with more money and better players on show I think Petrie would take a gamble on losing the 50 or so Killie fans who visit and replace them with Hibs fans more interested in a better product.
Most SPL teams who visit Easter Road barely bring enough to cover the costs of opening the south stand.

[Ozyhibby]

http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wo...-staging-post/

Good article on the merits of a northern European league.

[jgl07]

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http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wo...-staging-post/

Good article on the merits of a northern European league.

A load of deluded pish.

I do not think that any of the four 'big leagues' in Western Europe would have any interest in bringing in teams from other Associations. Celtic to EPL, Ajax to Bundesliga, Benfica to La Liga are all non starters.

There is certainly scope for neighbouring Leagues to merge - Balkans, Baltic Republics, Low Countries, Scandinavia - but this does not mean that 'pick and mix' Leagues could be generated from counties with no linguistic or cultural connection such as the proposed Fishfinger League or the North Atlantic League.

Just because such a League might cover countries with a greater population than England, Italy, or Spain would not mean that it would be capable of generating good TV income or bigger attendances. The reason that the Swedish and other clubs have comparatively poor attendances is that most people there prefer to watch the English Premier League match on TV.

Would a match between Djugardens IF and Celtic be of much interest to anyone who was not a supporter of either club. Aberdeen v Aarhus GF would have even lower pulling power.

[ancient hibee]

If I'm given the choice of going to see Hibs v Aberdeen or Hibs v Hammarby I vote for Aberdeen and I certainly would never see the team playing away.The travel costs for the teams make it a non starter unless there was a huge increase in GUARANTEED TV money.

[Ozyhibby]

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A load of deluded pish.

I do not think that any of the four 'big leagues' in Western Europe would have any interest in bringing in teams from other Associations. Celtic to EPL, Ajax to Bundesliga, Benfica to La Liga are all non starters.

There is certainly scope for neighbouring Leagues to merge - Balkans, Baltic Republics, Low Countries, Scandinavia - but this does not mean that 'pick and mix' Leagues could be generated from counties with no linguistic or cultural connection such as the proposed Fishfinger League or the North Atlantic League.

Just because such a League might cover countries with a greater population than England, Italy, or Spain would not mean that it would be capable of generating good TV income or bigger attendances. The reason that the Swedish and other clubs have comparatively poor attendances is that most people there prefer to watch the English Premier League match on TV.

Would a match between Djugardens IF and Celtic be of much interest to anyone who was not a supporter of either club. Aberdeen v Aarhus GF would have even lower pulling power.

Attendances in Sweden are higher than they are in England per head of population. The reason they have lower crowds is simply that there are less of them.

In Scotland 1 in 373 attend football regularly.
In Sweden it's 1 in 1429.
In England it's 1 in 1506.
In Denmark it's 1 in 668.
In Norway it's 1 in 607.

It's got nothing to do with us all supporting English teams.
I agree with you there is no appetite for Scottish teams joining the English league.