Treatment from Police/Stewards/Away Club

[JIm]

Have been monitoring this alot recently as nothing seems to be simple these days and football fans are treated like the lowest of the low.

This season i have been refused entry in to Tannadice because the supporters bus flag was too big and did not comply with Dundee Utds flag policy, twice we were asked by police yesterday to take our flag out so they could consider whether it was to be allowed in to Pittodrie yesterday (once outside and again inside).

Constantly people get hassled for standing (was ok yesterday) and no drinking allowed on buses (probably the only sport in the UK where this is the case).

It appears to me that the police and football clubs are trying to ruin the match day experience all over the UK and its a real shame. Lets just look at atmospheres in grounds where this is pretty evident.

Surely its about time that football fans claimed our game back.

Just curious what other peoples thoughts are. What do you think fans can do to get back to the glory days of big crowds, lively atmosphere and an all encompassing more enjoyable day out?

Credit where credits due to groups like Sect43 for some innovative ideas. I personally feel for them with the amount of hurdles that clubs and the police put in their way.

[hibIBZ]

dont really understand the arguement for standing in seated areas or drinking on buses as both are illegal

[Johnny0762]

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Have been monitoring this alot recently as nothing seems to be simple these days and football fans are treated like the lowest of the low.

This season i have been refused entry in to Tannadice because the supporters bus flag was too big and did not comply with Dundee Utds flag policy, twice we were asked by police yesterday to take our flag out so they could consider whether it was to be allowed in to Pittodrie yesterday (once outside and again inside).

Constantly people get hassled for standing (was ok yesterday) and no drinking allowed on buses (probably the only sport in the UK where this is the case).

It appears to me that the police and football clubs are trying to ruin the match day experience all over the UK and its a real shame. Lets just look at atmospheres in grounds where this is pretty evident.

Surely its about time that football fans claimed our game back.

Just curious what other peoples thoughts are. What do you think fans can do to get back to the glory days of big crowds, lively atmosphere and an all encompassing more enjoyable day out?

Credit where credits due to groups like Sect43 for some innovative ideas. I personally feel for them with the amount of hurdles that clubs and the police put in their way.

Are you a bus convenor? I hope not mate.

Let's look at some facts....

1) It is ILLEGAL to stand at a Scottish football match.

If there are no safety issues then this has become a point of contention where many club officials are prepared to tolerate it, as it's what many fans want. Attempting to get fans back into SPL grounds will always see clubs and officials looking at new things. Hence why there are ongoing discussions about creating designated standing areas.

For the present, this will be seen as an unofficial trial.

2) It is the duty of Police and stewards to make sure that flags are of no danger to the fans, including size for a specific stadium, and most importantly that they are fire ******ant.

How would you feel if your child got his face and hands badly burned at a football match all because some twat smoking a fag set a big surfing flag alight?

3) Drinking on buses is now illegal.

There are no other sports where it is allowed. Perhaps there are other sports where fans travelling by buses do not stick out like sore thumbs for inherent misbehaviour, as is the case with football fans, and there may be a blind eye turned.

4) There are other, more apt, reasons why our crowds are down against historical figures.

Football became too expensive when prices shot up to pay for the foreigners that were playing here.

Due to said influx of foreigners, our governing bodies and clubs took their eyes of developing home grown talent, and as a result the standard of football deteriorated when Johnny Foreigner could no longer be afforded.

More live games on TV.

More families now own a car, and family lifestyles have changed dramatically. It's now the done thing to spend money on lots of other family activities which more and more take precedent over the inflated costs of attending football matches.

There are probably many other reasons why too.

[iwasthere1972]

Take it from someone who attended matches in the late sixties and early seventies and spent most of their time ducking darts and anything else that came my way as well as having bricks flying through the coach window that I wouldn't want drinking allowed on the buses or at the ground. There are enough nutters out there ready.

[Bunter]

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dont really understand the arguement for standing in seated areas or drinking on buses as both are illegal

Agreed. It's not as if these are new developments within the game.

[givescotlandfreedom]

It is not illegal to stand at football games in Scotland. Scotland followed recommendations set out by the English Taylor report but legally it has no bearing whatsoever. This is why at Pittodroe we were told (not for the first time) standing in the last six rows was permitted and our club has spoken of considering a standing area.

[JIm]

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Are you a bus convenor? I hope not mate.

Let's look at some facts....

2) It is the duty of Police and stewards to make sure that flags are of no danger to the fans, including size for a specific stadium, and most importantly that they are fire ******ant.

How would you feel if your child got his face and hands badly burned at a football match all because some twat smoking a fag set a big surfing flag alight?

.

To be honest its the flag situation thats my main issue here. All i am looking for is to be able to walk in to a ground, hang my flag (in the designated area) and go watch the game.

I'm not on about the big surfing flags but surely to get refused entry to a ground or asked both outside and inside the ground about your flag is ridiculous.

Is it really a big issue taking a flag to a ground and getting it tied up? Shouldn't be IMO but all to often it is.

[MacBean]

It is NOT illegal to stand.

[Johnny0762]

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It is not illegal to stand at football games in Scotland. Scotland followed recommendations set out by the English Taylor report but legally it has no bearing whatsoever. This is why at Pittodroe we were told (not for the first time) standing in the last six rows was permitted and our club has spoken of considering a standing area.

It might not be illegal in law, but it is illegal in club rules, hence why you have used the word "permitted".

[JIm]

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It might not be illegal in law, but it is illegal in club rules, hence why you have used the word "permitted".

Surely then clubs need to start acting and providing standing areas as there clearly is a demand for it?

You only need to look at the German model of standing to see that it works. (lower costs and larger crowds).

[Johnny0762]

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To be honest its the flag situation thats my main issue here. All i am looking for is to be able to walk in to a ground, hang my flag (in the designated area) and go watch the game.

I'm not on about the big surfing flags but surely to get refused entry to a ground or asked both outside and inside the ground about your flag is ridiculous.

Is it really a big issue taking a flag to a ground and getting it tied up? Shouldn't be IMO but all to often it is.

You would be best to contact each individual away day club, in plenty of time before each match, and let them know what you intend bringing to the game. Others do just this with no surprises and no problems.

[givescotlandfreedom]

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It might not be illegal in law, but it is illegal in club rules, hence why you have used the word "permitted".

There's a difference between something non permitted and being illegal. It's a club/league policy, not the law.

[JIm]

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You would be best to contact each individual away day club, in plenty of time before each match, and let them know what you intend bringing to the game. Others do just this with no surprises and no problems.

Which we do. Just amazed the way the football experience is going where you struggle to take a flag in to a ground without being interrogated. The worlds gone crazy.

[lucky]

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It is not illegal to stand at football games in Scotland. Scotland followed recommendations set out by the English Taylor report but legally it has no bearing whatsoever. This is why at Pittodroe we were told (not for the first time) standing in the last six rows was permitted and our club has spoken of considering a standing area.

English Taylor report, what is that ? I take it you mean Lord Taylor's report into safety at football, which was set up by our government. The devolved government have never stated any preference for a change to all seater stadia.
Drinking on buses is a thing of the past and I don't believe it should be brought back. But do think you should be able to have a pint in ground before and at half time

[Johnny0762]

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Surely then clubs need to start acting and providing standing areas as there clearly is a demand for it?

You only need to look at the German model of standing to see that it works. (lower costs and larger crowds).

We all know this, and so do our clubs, which is why we are being allowed to stand in the East, and at away games.

There is a point somewhere in there though. At Fir Park, Hibs fans were continually harranged for flying legal one metre poled flags. The Police said that this was because they were blocking the view of the Police control office, which was lies.

The flags were up waving in front of the corporate area windows at the back of the lower level away stand.

What's wrong here is that the ordinary fans are being pushed aside for the big spenders. Big spenders won't fill football grounds though.

[givescotlandfreedom]

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English Taylor report, what is that ? I take it you mean Lord Taylor's report into safety at football, which was set up by our government. The devolved government have never stated any preference for a change to all seater stadia.
Drinking on buses is a thing of the past and I don't believe it should be brought back. But do think you should be able to have a pint in ground before and at half time

It was a report which led to a legal change in England and has no legal jurisdiction in Scotland due to our differing legal systems (then and now), that's why I used the word "English". I didn't say anything other than to clear up a myth that standing here is against the law.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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We all know this, and so do our clubs, which is why we are being allowed to stand in the East, and at away games.

There is a point somewhere in there though. At Fir Park, Hibs fans were continually harranged for flying legal one metre poled flags. The Police said that this was because they were blocking the view of the Police control office, which was lies.

The flags were up waving in front of the corporate area windows at the back of the lower level away stand.

What's wrong here is that the ordinary fans are being pushed aside for the big spenders. Big spenders won't fill football grounds though.

Spot on.

[Johnny0762]

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Which we do. Just amazed the way the football experience is going where you struggle to take a flag in to a ground without being interrogated. The worlds gone crazy.

Jim, I'll have to take your word for it bud.

You should carry with you the contact details of whom, at each specific club, you have contacted for permission. Surely presenting this info to Police and stewards should be enough?

[frazeHFC]

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dont really understand the arguement for standing in seated areas or drinking on buses as both are illegal

Exactly! The arguement in the standing debate (not illegal just not allowed) is that it should be permitted, especially if in nobody's way.

And totally agree about the Motherwell incident. Lad waves a flag that was under the required maximum length......and gets chucked out. The same people who were moaning, those in the corporative box, were giving it the giruy's when 'Well scored, which had a fair bit more potential to cause upset or start something off.

[Pretty Boy]

Football fans get treated pretty poorly in my experience. Without wishing to open up an old debate I've witnessed far worse behaviour from rugby fans go unpunished, probably to do with the reputation that goes before both sets of fans. This is in spite of the fact the vast majority of football fans can behave themselves and could no doubt stand safely and manage a pint at half time without violence breaking out.

It also seems to me that on occasion the Police and stewards are almost looking for trouble where there is none, anyone who was at Ayr last season will have witnessed this first hand, the Police that day were a disgrace.

[blackpoolhibs]

I understand why drink is banned, and an even see why they want folk to sit down, but i'd love to see the casualty list of fans who have been burnt by flags that have caught fire?

[cam75]

At dons game was directed to standing area and stewards police were good through out.

[Johnny0762]

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I understand why drink is banned, and an even see why they want folk to sit down, but i'd love to see the casualty list of fans who have been burnt by flags that have caught fire?

Thankfully there are people in charge who would rather prevent this from happening than wait until it happens before changing the rules.

Nice try, could do better though.

[Johnny0762]

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At dons game was directed to standing area and stewards police were good through out.

I said this previously. A good trip to Pittodrie started off with a good blether with Dons fans, then friendly police and stewards all saying hello with a smile as we walked into the ground. Even the guy at the turnstile let my laddie in as an under 12 saving me £8. The cops standing to the right of the Hibs fans between us and the flags giggled their heads off at the trade of insults between the fans and not once did I see anyone being approached by a cop or steward.

[marinello59]

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At dons game was directed to standing area and stewards police were good through out.

Aye, Grampian Police used to be a nightmare, they have taken a much more fan friendly attitude in recent seasons.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Thankfully there are people in charge who would rather prevent this from happening than wait until it happens before changing the rules.
Nice try, could do better though.

Really, perhaps some kind of protective bubble could be invented that we could wear at all times to stop us getting wet, catch a cold or even help if hit by a car or the likes?

[Hibercelona]

The stewards don't have it in for the fans at all.

They're given strict guidelines in which they have to follow, otherwise its their neck.

It's the people in charge of the security that issues should be taken up with, not individual stewards.

[Lmc2105]

As we run buses to Hibernian fc away games ans am sure other buses will confirm this that we are advised by our bus company's under no circumstances is alcohol allowed to be consumed on buses at the end of the day that's why we book into supporters clubs every away game so people can get a drink. If people can't last a few hours without a drink their has to be a problem their.

[Johnny0762]

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Really, perhaps some kind of protective bubble could be invented that we could wear at all times to stop us getting wet, catch a cold or even help if hit by a car or the likes?

I think the seaside air is getting to you.

I wasn't going to answer your ludicrously churlish point but......

We buy waterproof jackets with hoods for the rain.

We can take vitamin supplements and keep ourselves fit and healthy to avoid colds.

We have a highway code and traffic signals to avoid being hit by cars.

So we've already invented that protective bubble to prevent these things.

What next mate?

[JIm]

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The stewards don't have it in for the fans at all.

They're given strict guidelines in which they have to follow, otherwise its their neck.

It's the people in charge of the security that issues should be taken up with, not individual stewards.

Whether or not they have strict instructions common sense needs to be shown at times, sadly this is not the case.