We were defeated by a team who will ease to second place this season IMO. Not many teams will get anything from Tannadice this season. Utd's front three will cause problems for everyone all season. Some of the threads/posts on here are completely over the top. Protests being suggested after the first defeat of the season, against a very strong opponent - it's just silly.
Dreading what this forum will be like next Monday.
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06-08-2012 12:53 PM #1
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Beaten By This Seasons Runners-up
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06-08-2012 12:57 PM #2
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I wonder where people get their expectations from, have they actually watched hibs for the past 3 seasons?
We're in the middle of a massive squad overhaul, it's pretty clear we need at least another 4 signings. PF has said this, yet people are still going for the jugular.
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06-08-2012 01:01 PM #3
Last night I watched Sportscene and saw every other team in the SPL have a zip, spark and pace about them (regardless of the quality of the players in their team) that we were so short of yesterday. I wasn't expecting much results-wise against a very good Utd side, but I did at the very least expect to see a Hibs team finally play with some real desire and look interested - what I saw was so sickeningly depressing I cannot even allow myself to think about how long and hard this season is going to be. I said on the way to Dundee yesterday that it didn't at all feel like a new season, with new optimism and enthusiasm, it just felt like a continuation from last year, with a wee break in between - and that's exactly what our performance was like.
I had liked what Fenlon had to say since his arrival and in particular over the close season, and whilst I'm ready to write him off yet, I have lost a huge amount of faith in him after yesterday's performance. If we are to improve at all this year we need to score more goals and concede less than we did last year - whilst the current lack of strikers isn't entirely his fault, he changed the one thing that worked about the back four after his arrival last year (McPake and Hanlon partnership) and made both the back four as a whole, and the two individuals themselves, look much worse than last year. McPake was a pale shadow of the inspirational figure that he was last year, and not the captain that we thought we were getting.
Most worrying though was the fact that Fenlon seems unable to lift a team that he has spent the whole pre-season with to perform even close to the level that it should, never mind above that level, which is what we will need to do in order to have any aspirations of not being involved in a season-long relegation battle. The new signings will have to be something really special to rescue us - he is seriously talking up Deegan, and he does sound exactly like what we need. Fingers crossed he is right, and more will follow.
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06-08-2012 01:01 PM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I am realistic enough to know we are miles short of where we need to be, however, I can't stomach watching us struggling to take throw ins, struggling to make 5 yard passes, not being able to beat the first man with a free-kick or corner...It is the level we find ourselves at, that I find galling and unacceptable.......Is it really too much to ask, to be able to watch our team get the basic fundementals right???"There's class, there's first class and there's Hibs class" - Eddie Turnbull
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06-08-2012 01:03 PM #5This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-08-2012 01:05 PM #6
I think some people just come on this to moan. Yes, we were poor yesterday but you'll be lucky to take anything from tannadice this season. I've seen another post on a different thread saying that if in a couple of months time we're playing like that and losing to teams like Inverness and Dundee, that's when we should be worried, not after losing one game
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06-08-2012 01:05 PM #7
Thrashed by this seasons runners up would have been my title thread, 3 nil going on 6. We are so far behind them its staggering.
And some folk predicted we'd be 2nd this season, how much drink are they consuming before actually watching football with Hibs involved?
We are light years behind Dundee Utd, we are not even a top 6 side and its a relegation fight we have to look forward to again this season.
Well done Hibernian football club, you lot in charge have made us a bloody shambles of a club.
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06-08-2012 01:07 PM #8
Alternatively, you could say that we were completely outplayed by a team that is player for player better in EVERY possition yet has a smaller support and, I'd guess, budget. Not one of our players would get into their team. That is a major concern when we are talking about Dundee Utd, not Rangers or Celtc. We barely threatened their goal the entire 90 minutes. Our management team had no idea how to change the game and our new signings looked no better than the dross we had last season.
Still, it's OK because Utd might finish 2nd!
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06-08-2012 01:09 PM #9
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06-08-2012 01:10 PM #10
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06-08-2012 01:12 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Regarding next Monday...whether we get gubbed / draw...or even sneak a win...we are still a team way short of where we all (supporters / management / board) want us to be....
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06-08-2012 01:14 PM #12
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The reason we are always in overhaul is because we are. We are always in overhaul because we change our manager every year, expecting the manager to come in and perform miracles straight away on a tight budget. The manager needs time to change the core of the club, the attitude and the mentality of the team. Otherwise we will forever be in transition.
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06-08-2012 01:16 PM #13
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A whole load of drama queens are whittering on as if Sundays game and the Cup Final were the only game that Fenlon or any of his signings had played. But it's patently obvious that Fenlon is slap in the middle of a rebuilding job at Hibs and there's still plenty of work to do.
I do not labour under the illusion that the sun shines oot of Paddy's erse or anything but for me, the guy who managed to cajole a team of relegation strugglers to the cup final (even if we were steamrollered come the event) has already shown that he has some kind of managerial ability.
The agitators who's quivering fingers would already be pressing the panic button to eject PF from the Easter Road hot seat after one game need to have a word with their doctors about some valium or similar because this summer's recruitment is far from over and we have a tough fixture vs the Yams coming up in which the current side will do well to yield a point.
There's still a few weeks to strengthen the squad after which we can realistically look for signs of progress - if we still look like relegation strugglers at that point then there would be genuine reason to question Fenlon's ability to build a team - to do so after one game is pathetic and indicative of weak moral fibre IMO
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06-08-2012 01:20 PM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
However, to show absolutely no signs of improvement (in fact, we looked worse) on the back of a season where we avoided relegation in the second last game of the season before finishing with THAT day in May, is unacceptable for many - and I can completely understand why.
I am generally a pretty positive/optimistic person when it comes to Hibs, but there was not a single positive to take from yesterday, and Pat managed to mess up the one thing that he improved last season.
The outlook is grim, there is no escaping that. Having been to Dundee and then watched all other SPL teams' highlights yesterday, I honestly believe that we would have lost to any of them.
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06-08-2012 01:22 PM #15This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-08-2012 01:22 PM #16
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06-08-2012 01:29 PM #17
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06-08-2012 01:34 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I was happy in the haze of a cup final place But heaven knows I’m miserable now
I was looking for a win, and then we got humped And heaven knows I’m miserable now
In my life Why do I give valuable time
To a team that doesn’t care if I live or die ?
The posters whined on all the hibs sites And heaven knows I’m miserable now
I was looking for support, now I ‘ll want to slit my wrists
And heaven knows I’m miserable now
In my life
Oh, why do I give valuable time
To a team that doesn’t care if I live or die ?
What Petrie asked of me at the end of the day
Caligula would have blushed
“You’ve been in the house too long” he said
Get an ST (naturally) instead
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I’d much rather kick in the eye ?
I was happy in the haze of a new season dream
But heaven knows I’m miserable now
Apologies to the Smiths
First game of new season. The only way is up!
GGTTH
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06-08-2012 01:39 PM #19
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Which side looked like they had played midweek against top Russian opposition ?
Hibernian were slow, off the pace, sitting deep, forgetting to track runners, not marking, slack with their passing, lethargic and lacking cohesion. And that is one game in
Dundee United ran their socks off midweek and should have won that game - yesterday they played with pace, power, zip and style. Not one player looked like the midweek had sapped any energy levels.
What I will say is that in footballing terms, Dundee United are where I expect Hibs to be in 2 seasons time - having a core side, which even if two or three drop away, you only need to add a couple at a time. United have a football daft chairman who literally loves the club and the game. They have also remained loyal to Houston despite some early form dips in his tenure and little fall-outs when he has been away on international duties. They have done ever so well to retain Daly, Russell and GMS, as well as last season keeping their full backs.
Peter Houston likes wingers and attack minded players. He lost Conway and immediately added GMS. He lost Gomis and Bauben and he brought in Flood and Rankin and Ryan.......but they are like Hearts in the market - they do their business early and sign players before the competitive season kicks off. They seem to have a good scouting network in place and act fast.
They may lose Russell and GMS before the window ends - but Stephen Thompson is always up front and he has said they are under no pressure at this point to sell. The Goodwillie money kept the banking wolves happy.
Hibernian have had numerous managers and assistant managers, player culls, player loans, last minute transfer deals and managers meeting other clubs bang in the middle of a pre-season, backroom squabbling - each of the past 4 seasons, a new manager has had to perform drastic surgery which makes things so so difficult.
The sad fact is is that Pat has inherited players who are more used to losing than they are winning. Winning is an unexpected bonus it seems. Players like Wotherspoon, Stevenson, and Stephens for me have had 3 seasons to compete, improve and cement their place - they have failed to do so. Let's not bang on about 'oh but they are U21 players so what do you know' - Stephens costs goals every time I have seen him play, Wotherspoon doesn't score goals each time I see him play (nor assist them consistently) and Stevenson offers little going forward or back.
You then have to look around the leagues in Scotland and see if there are players who can and will step up to the plate and show eagerness to fill the boots of those that are failing - and trust me there are numerous examples at Falkirk, QoS, Hamilton Partick and Dundee (albeit they got into the SPL) who could do a far far better job than those I mentioned.
Nicky Riley, Bob Harris (admittedly now in Championship), Craig Sibbald, Jay Fulton, Marc McNulty, etc etc etc..............each would do a right better job than any of our current charlatans.
Fenlon for me has to sit each one of the players down, this week, and bluntly ask them 'Do you want to be here ?' If they answer yes then they need to be given a timeline to improve, or they face leaving the club. Bold, firm, fair but necessary. Some also need to to told in no uncertain terms that they are not good enough at this level.
I know who I would tell, I'm sure Pat Fenlon knows to - opinions may differ. But the penny now has to drop for some of them. And if I was Pat, I'd already be instructing scouts and contacts to be scouring the leagues and getting work for next season in place - we really need to be thinking a season ahead at all times, in order for that winning mentality he is striving for to come to fruition.
Oh......and Rod and Scott to step aside and have fresh new faces at that level would be the icing on the cake
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06-08-2012 01:40 PM #20
I think perspective is important and therefore agree with the sentiments in the OP.
Yes, DUFC are way ahead of us. However, they will be ahead of most this season and the nucleus of their 1st 11 has not had to change as much as most this close season.
It is very frustrating being a Hibs supporter but it sometimes seems that we allow our judgement of PF to be clouded by the disappointments of the past few years rather than to judge PF on his current performance alone.
We are where we are at the moment and PF is not responsible for the past. I am desperate for him to add 3 of 4 quality players who can walk straight into our 1st team but he can't afford to get it wrong so he mustn't just bring someone in to appease us short term.
When I think about what our starting 11 should be - all those I consider seem to be those who have been brought in by PF or they are youngsters such as Caldwell. To me that illustrates the point with crystal clarity that, basically, PF had no-one at the club good enough for a Hibs starting 11 at the end of last season.
I believe he's made a start to what is a huge job and, for me, Williams, Clancy, McPake, Cairney and Griffiths all look like players who should be in or around our 1st 11. So much more is needed but the most important thing by far is that we allow PF time to do the job and begin to establish a period of stability at the club.
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06-08-2012 01:42 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Of course we need more signings, but Pat has to take responsibility for the current team organisation and attitude - just two of the things that were sorely lacking yesterday.
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06-08-2012 01:49 PM #22
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06-08-2012 01:59 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
McPake and Hanlon's partnership was one of the very few highlights from last season - they didn't look great in every game but it was definitely something to build on. Would you have been encouraged if someone had told you after 19 May that Fenlon was gonna pin his hopes on a McPake/Stephens partnership instead?
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06-08-2012 02:03 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-08-2012 02:09 PM #25
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Perhaps Fenlon was trying to highlight a position we desperately need to splash out on to Rod? Who knows.
I don't think effort is the problem, it's more attitude. A defeatist attitude, it's not that they don't care it's that they've not got the bit between their teeth and concede defeat all too easy. That's where we have to get harder but it all comes down to confidence.
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06-08-2012 02:14 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
That you are worried about this forum for next Monday suggests you have written us off for a home derby? That is a sad indictment of the state of our team.
I too am impressed with Dundee United - they are pretty much what I'd like to see in our Hibs side. I'd look at their model and ask why we are nowhere near it instead of using it as some justification for an away humping.
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06-08-2012 02:24 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We'll have to agree to disagree on the last point, I don't see enough effort.
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06-08-2012 02:50 PM #28
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06-08-2012 02:52 PM #29
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06-08-2012 03:03 PM #30
Beaten up by this season's runners.
Never mind Dundee Utd, is there any prospect of matching up to anyone?
8 1 in our last two competitive games. FFs! I wish I could make it on Sunday god knows whatever team is on the park it needs encouragement.
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