Hashim Amla

[--------]

[Mikey]

Indeed, he gave England's world class bowling attack an absolute pasting. As did Smith and Kallis.

Peterson (the South African one..... I know, that doesn't narrow it down very much ) must have taken some stick for getting a duck

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Indeed, he gave England's world class bowling attack an absolute pasting. As did Smith and Kallis.

Peterson (the South African one..... I know, that doesn't narrow it down very much ) must have taken some stick for getting a duck

Right at the beginning of the innings, Mikey - it does happen, but it's terribly embarrassing when it does.

I can't recall seeing a scorecard like that first innings SA one (maybe the WI second innings at Lords' in 1984 - Greenidge 214 not out, Haynes 17 run out, Gomes 92 not out, but even that's not as extreme). Of course, Greenidge did it again a couple of Tests later - 223 out of 500 at Old Trafford.

Must have been really bloody depressing bowling against these guys knowing that if you got Greenidge or Haynes out, Gomes came in. If you got him, Richards came in. If you got HIM, Clive Lloyd came in. And if you got HIM, Geoff Dujon was next. [*]

I see SA are beginning to claim Jacques Kallis as a better all-rounder than Gary Sobers.

Looks like SA will have to bat again to win this.
[*] I could also have mentioned Kallicharan and Rohan Kanhai ....

[Liberal Hibby]

Great knock. And to think less than a generation ago Amla would have been barred from representing his country. SA have come a long way in a few years.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Great knock. And to think less than a generation ago Amla would have been barred from representing his country. SA have come a long way in a few years.

Yup. I can remember the D'Oliveira affair and the ban and the unofficial ban-breaking tours and all that stuff, and it's good to see this side playing so well and so benuinely a team.

Saw Amla's interview last night - came over very well - very genuine, very modest.

I know it was only a half-chance, but if Strauss had made the catch late on the second day it could all have been SO different.

And just think - SA could have had Kevin Pietersen at 3 instead of Amla.

[GhostofBolivar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Indeed, he gave England's world class bowling attack an absolute pasting. As did Smith and Kallis.

Peterson (the South African one..... I know, that doesn't narrow it down very much ) must have taken some stick for getting a duck

To be fair to Peterson, he got a good one from Anderson. T'was about the only one England managed to bowl all match.

[GhostofBolivar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Right at the beginning of the innings, Mikey - it does happen, but it's terribly embarrassing when it does.

I can't recall seeing a scorecard like that first innings SA one (maybe the WI second innings at Lords' in 1984 - Greenidge 214 not out, Haynes 17 run out, Gomes 92 not out, but even that's not as extreme). Of course, Greenidge did it again a couple of Tests later - 223 out of 500 at Old Trafford.

Must have been really bloody depressing bowling against these guys knowing that if you got Greenidge or Haynes out, Gomes came in. If you got him, Richards came in. If you got HIM, Clive Lloyd came in. And if you got HIM, Geoff Dujon was next.

I see SA are beginning to claim Jacques Kallis as a better all-rounder than Gary Sobers.

Looks like SA will have to bat again to win this.

It's obvious that Kallis has been underrated for most of his career. His is a phenomenal record. As for being better than Sobers, the numbers are awfully similar:

Jacques Kallis: 151 Tests; 12,367 runs at an average of 57; 43 hundreds and 55 fifties with a top score of 224. 274 wickets at an average of 32.5 with 5 5-fors and a best of 6/54.

Sir Gary Sobers; 93 Tests; 8,032 runs at an average of 57.8; 26 hundreds and 30 fifties with a top score of 365. 235 wickets at an average of 34 with 6 5-fors and a best of 6/73.

Feel free to argue who was better based on that...

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's obvious that Kallis has been underrated for most of his career. His is a phenomenal record. As for being better than Sobers, the numbers are awfully similar:

Jacques Kallis: 151 Tests; 12,367 runs at an average of 57; 43 hundreds and 55 fifties with a top score of 224. 274 wickets at an average of 32.5 with 5 5-fors and a best of 6/54.

Sir Gary Sobers; 93 Tests; 8,032 runs at an average of 57.8; 26 hundreds and 30 fifties with a top score of 365. 235 wickets at an average of 34 with 6 5-fors and a best of 6/73.

Feel free to argue who was better based on that...

I don't think I can separate them on those figures, allowing that Kallis is playing at a time when there are more Tests being played, and that Sobers was at the height of his powers before the Windies really came into their pomp.

Truth is, they're both awesome cricketers.

A class above the great all-rounders of the 1970s - Botham, Imran, Hadlee, Kapil Dev, I would say, great as all those players were.

Personally, I rate Richard Hadlee the best of thsoe four, but I'm sure there are many many who'll disagree.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Great knock. And to think less than a generation ago Amla would have been barred from representing his country. SA have come a long way in a few years.

As would Tahir and Philander.

[DaveF]

I remember talking to a south african a few years ago - this was when Ntini was playing - and we were discussing the quota system regarding selection. He said that Kallis was considered as a cape coloured and so a minority as far as the quota was concerned.

Not that this has anything to do with a fantastic cricketer, but I wondered if SA still had the quota selection in operation?

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I remember talking to a south african a few years ago - this was when Ntini was playing - and we were discussing the quota system regarding selection. He said that Kallis was considered as a cape coloured and so a minority as far as the quota was concerned.

Not that this has anything to do with a fantastic cricketer, but I wondered if SA still had the quota selection in operation?

That is so stupid. And insulting.

I was watching "Fire in Babylon" a couple of nights ago - the documentary about the great Winides side of the late 1970's through to the mid-90's - and the subject of the rebel WI tour of SA in 1982 came up. The only really big name to go on that tour was Colin Croft, but the Afrikaaners wanted the whole team (or most of it) if possible, so they targeted Viv Richards. On the film, the Great Man's talking about it, and says that the SA agents offered him a completely blank cheque to sign up - he could literally have named his price. Then, as an added incentive, they said that for the duration of the tour, he and his team-mates would be accorded the honour of being treated as "honorary whites" by the SA government. The utter contempt in Richards' voice ...

Still, letting Kallis play as a Cape Coloured was an advance of sorts - they didn't let Basil D'Oliveira play 40 years earlier.

Cracking documentary, that.

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Right at the beginning of the innings, Mikey - it does happen, but it's terribly embarrassing when it does.

I can't recall seeing a scorecard like that first innings SA one (maybe the WI second innings at Lords' in 1984 - Greenidge 214 not out, Haynes 17 run out, Gomes 92 not out, but even that's not as extreme). Of course, Greenidge did it again a couple of Tests later - 223 out of 500 at Old Trafford.

Must have been really bloody depressing bowling against these guys knowing that if you got Greenidge or Haynes out, Gomes came in. If you got him, Richards came in. If you got HIM, Clive Lloyd came in. And if you got HIM, Geoff Dujon was next. [*]

I see SA are beginning to claim Jacques Kallis as a better all-rounder than Gary Sobers.

Looks like SA will have to bat again to win this.[*] I could also have mentioned Kallicharan and Rohan Kanhai ....

Maybe not similar in that there wasn't an out-and-out big scorer, but Australia in the '93 Ashes at Lords was a complete demolition job - three out of the first four bats hitting centuries and the fourth, the sublime Mark Waugh, falling at 99. The match came hot on the heels of the Ashes opener at Old Trafford, where if England had even entertained winning the series, they were surely psychologically sunk after Shane Warne's wonderball to Mike Gatting.

I think Michael Slater may have bagged his first Test century at Lords as well, as he made his debut on that Ashes tour. For strength in depth, that first incarnation of the modern all-conquering Aussie batting line-up takes some beating - Slater/Taylor/Boon/M Waugh/Border/S Waugh, with the useful Ian Healy to follow - though the Windies' line-up you've described would probably edge it for me for sheer elan. When I think of that side I'm always minded of John Arlott's description of Clive Lloyd in the 1975 World Cup Final, casually knocking a boundary to mid-wicket: "...The stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick"

Re the all-rounders I liked Hadlee as well, but heart rules the head and I would be tempted to give the nod to Imran - he got better as he grew older, led Pakistan to the World Cup and was one of the very few who managed to stand up to the fantastically intimidating Windies. The beauty of cricket is that you could debate these things all day and still not have a definitive answer, and just as likely have changed your opinion several times over

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe not similar in that there wasn't an out-and-out big scorer, but Australia in the '93 Ashes at Lords was a complete demolition job - three out of the first four bats hitting centuries and the fourth, the sublime Mark Waugh, falling at 99. The match came hot on the heels of the Ashes opener at Old Trafford, where if England had even entertained winning the series, they were surely psychologically sunk after Shane Warne's wonderball to Mike Gatting.

I think Michael Slater may have bagged his first Test century at Lords as well, as he made his debut on that Ashes tour. For strength in depth, that first incarnation of the modern all-conquering Aussie batting line-up takes some beating - Slater/Taylor/Boon/M Waugh/Border/S Waugh, with the useful Ian Healy to follow - though the Windies' line-up you've described would probably edge it for me for sheer elan. When I think of that side I'm always minded of John Arlott's description of Clive Lloyd in the 1975 World Cup Final, casually knocking a boundary to mid-wicket: "...The stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick"

Re the all-rounders I liked Hadlee as well, but heart rules the head and I would be tempted to give the nod to Imran - he got better as he grew older, led Pakistan to the World Cup and was one of the very few who managed to stand up to the fantastically intimidating Windies. The beauty of cricket is that you could debate these things all day and still not have a definitive answer, and just as likely have changed your opinion several times over

That was a fantastic match - Windies losing Greenidge, Haynes and Kallicharran and going to 50-3 with Lillee and Thomson in their pomp, and Kanhai (whop was a veteran by then, I think) and Lloyd coming in and swatting the ball all over the place to take them past the 200.

IIRC Keith Boyce took 4 Aussie wickets, and the rest were run-outs?


THE GREAT MAN -

[jodjam]

Clive Lloyd is responsible for my love of cricket. I remember watching him swatting Glamorgan all over the place for Lancs once and I was hooked. Regular visits down to Old Trafford over the years have been great.

One highlight for me was watching Jack Russell getting his maiden test century in an Ashes test at OT then jumping in the car heading off to watch Hibs play away at Burnley.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Clive Lloyd is responsible for my love of cricket. I remember watching him swatting Glamorgan all over the place for Lancs once and I was hooked. Regular visits down to Old Trafford over the years have been great.

One highlight for me was watching Jack Russell getting his maiden test century in an Ashes test at OT then jumping in the car heading off to watch Hibs play away at Burnley.

Jack Russell's a Hibee?

[jodjam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Jack Russell's a Hibee?

haha , not as far as i'm aware. I was at an Ashes test at Old Trafford. Russell got his 100 and then I jumped in the car and just made it on time to watch Hibs take on the mighty Burnley

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

haha , not as far as i'm aware. I was at an Ashes test at Old Trafford. Russell got his 100 and then I jumped in the car and just made it on time to watch Hibs take on the mighty Burnley

Ah. Your syntax is clearer this time around.

Jack Russell was a player I liked very much. Not the most orthodox of actions either as batsman or wicket-keeper, IIRC, but a real asset to any side he played in. No coincidence that he played for the same county as that other great eccentric of the English game, the Great Doctor himself.

Very talented water-colourist as well, I believe - and a tea-addict.

And then of course there was The Hat ....

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

He used to wear shades all the time in an attempt to avoid the type of injury that Boucher suffered whilst keeping up to the stumps.

As a little aside SA have now scored over 400 runs since losing their last test wicket!

[hibee62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ah. Your syntax is clearer this time around.

Jack Russell was a player I liked very much. Not the most orthodox of actions either as batsman or wicket-keeper, IIRC, but a real asset to any side he played in. No coincidence that he played for the same county as that other great eccentric of the English game, the Great Doctor himself.

Very talented water-colourist as well, I believe - and a tea-addict.

And then of course there was The Hat ....

Sure I saw that he does a lot of these test match paintings that are done and auctioned.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sure I saw that he does a lot of these test match paintings that are done and auctioned.

Yup. Talented chap.

[--------]

He's at it again ....

[jodjam]

That was a great test match. Crazy the series is not over 5 games.

[DaveF]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That was a great test match. Crazy the series is not over 5 games.

Agree. The last test was brilliant, with England giving it a real go - as they had to.

Philander bowling with the new ball was absolutely immense.

[jodjam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agree. The last test was brilliant, with England giving it a real go - as they had to.

Philander bowling with the new ball was absolutely immense.

Aye totally agree. Normally he's a bit like McGrath and just nags away but when he's got the new nut it just swings like mad.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That was a great test match. Crazy the series is not over 5 games.

Too much other stuff going on these days - the stuff that makes the money, I suppose.

What can you do when guys like Pieterson can make more playing in the ILP than from all the rest of their cricket - County, Tests, one-day, Twenty-20, everything - all together? Where do you fit in a proper Test Series?

[jodjam]

Amla just got to 3000 odi runs and done it 12 innings faster than anyone else. Class act