Financial Statements of Football Clubs

[danhibees1875]

Does anyone know where I could find the financial statements of Scottish football clubs - preferably spanning back maybe 5 years or so?

I'm hoping there is a database out there somewhere that someone has put together. I'm struggling to find any though, even just individual teams recent financial statements I'm struggling to find.

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does anyone know where I could find the financial statements of Scottish football clubs - preferably spanning back maybe 5 years or so?

I'm hoping there is a database out there somewhere that someone has put together. I'm struggling to find any though, even just individual teams recent financial statements I'm struggling to find.

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated

Companies House... but you'll have to pay

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/60...essCompanyInfo

[Peevemor]

Maybe not what you're looking for, and not bang up to date, but

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/index.htm

[Kato]

There is this site although it doesn't seem to have been kept up to date and looks a bit neglected it has some good historical information.

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

maybe not what you're looking for, and not bang up to date, but

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/index.htm

snap!!

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

snap!!

If you're not fast, you're last!

[danhibees1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Companies House... but you'll have to pay

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/60...essCompanyInfo

Thanks.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe not what you're looking for, and not bang up to date, but

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/index.htm

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There is this site although it doesn't seem to have been kept up to date and looks a bit neglected it has some good historical information.

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

Cheers guys, that's a nice starting point for some info/ideas.

[Kaiser1962]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does anyone know where I could find the financial statements of Scottish football clubs - preferably spanning back maybe 5 years or so?

I'm hoping there is a database out there somewhere that someone has put together. I'm struggling to find any though, even just individual teams recent financial statements I'm struggling to find.

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated

Price Waterhouse Cooper publish an annual review into the SPL but, given the lateness of some accounts, it is usually a year in arrears.

Last years one is here http://pwc.blogs.com/files/22nd-afr-spr11.pdf and this years is due shortly. Dosent go into great detail but covers the basics.

[rcarter1]

The Football Finances site you guys posted is very interesting if its all true. One confusing thing about the site is that large transfer fees don't seem to tally with the turnover (For either Hibs or Hearts whom I focused upon). Are transfer fees excluded from turnover?

Im not sure looking at the figures how hearts see themselves as so much bigger than us!

From these figures between 2001 - 2009 total turnover for each team is

Hibs £67,700,000

Hearts £73,700,000

and aberdeen come in between the two of us at approx 70,000,000.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Football Finances site you guys posted is very interesting if its all true. One confusing thing about the site is that large transfer fees don't seem to tally with the turnover (For either Hibs or Hearts whom I focused upon). Are transfer fees excluded from turnover?

Im not sure looking at the figures how hearts see themselves as so much bigger than us!

From these figures between 2001 - 2009 total turnover for each team is

Hibs £67,700,000

Hearts £73,700,000

and aberdeen come in between the two of us at approx 70,000,000.

Transfer fees are described as 'Gain on disposal of intangible fixed assets' and aren't treated as part of turnover.

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Transfer fees are described as 'Gain on disposal of intangible fixed assets' and aren't treated as part of turnover.

Cheers, that clears that up.

[rcarter1]

Further looking at these financial figures indicates that a lot of money is spent on running the club that doesn't involve the payroll, or transfers or interest payments.

Taking 2010

Turnover = +7.1 Million
Player Trading = +2.3 Million

Total Income = +9.4 Million

Costs

Amortisation (transfer fees) = -0.6 Million
Payroll = -4.8 Million
Interest payments = -0.1 Million

Total Outgoings = -5.5 Million

Apparent Profit = £3.9 Million

Actual Profit = £0.1 Million

Does it cost £3.8 Million/ year for policing, fines, transport, bills, etc ?

This sum was around 2 Million in 1999 and 2000.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Further looking at these financial figures indicates that a lot of money is spent on running the club that doesn't involve the payroll, or transfers or interest payments.

Taking 2010

Turnover = +7.1 Million
Player Trading = +2.3 Million

Total Income = +9.4 Million

Costs

Amortisation (transfer fees) = -0.6 Million
Payroll = -4.8 Million
Interest payments = -0.1 Million

Total Outgoings = -5.5 Million

Apparent Profit = £3.9 Million

Actual Profit = £0.1 Million

Does it cost £3.8 Million/ year for policing, fines, transport, bills, etc ?

This sum was around 2 Million in 1999 and 2000.

You're assuming that they spent all the leftover income as opposed to reducing debt.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You're assuming that they spent all the leftover income as opposed to reducing debt.

Reducing debt doesn't come off profit.

The OP might be better served asking if anyone on here has a copy of the latest detailed P and L. That would give a breakdown of the £3.8m

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Reducing debt doesn't come off profit.

The OP might be better served asking if anyone on here has a copy of the latest detailed P and L. That would give a breakdown of the £3.8m

I know, but but from rcarter1's figures, if the turnover is £7.1m and the payroll + interest totals £4.9m, then there is only £2.2m to be accounted for as far as operating costs and an eventual profit/loss goes.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know, but but from rcarter1's figures, if the turnover is £7.1m and the payroll + interest totals £4.9m, then there is only £2.2m to be accounted for as far as operating costs and an eventual profit/loss goes.

Plus the player sales of £2.3m

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Plus the player sales of £2.3m

minus player purchases ...

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

minus player purchases ...

I don't think that is purchases. I think it's amortisation of fees paid; ie writing off fees over a number of years. It's not actual cash being spent.

Accountants, eh?

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Reducing debt doesn't come off profit.

The OP might be better served asking if anyone on here has a copy of the latest detailed P and L. That would give a breakdown of the £3.8m

It's doubtful whether they would though, that's usually only available to the directors.

The other operating costs for 2010-2011 were £3.382m. I don't think that's particularly high when you consider stadium upkeep and power, rates, insurance, policing and stewarding etc. In comparison Hearts were considerably higher at about £4.5m, Aberdeen pretty much the same and Dundee Utd much lower at around £1m - but they've got a ropey wee stadium in Dundee. Down here in Englandshire Reading's are much higher at £6-7m (in the Championship).

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't think that is purchases. I think it's amortisation of fees paid; ie writing off fees over a number of years. It's not actual cash being spent.

Accountants, eh?

I didn't mention amortisation .

The point I was trying to make is that you can't assume that;

total income - amortisaton+wages+interest = other running costs.

[hibs0666]

PWC Review of Scottish Football

[danhibees1875]

I think there is no set standard for how to account for players and as a result teams do it differently; that's actually one of the areas I intend to look into.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Price Waterhouse Cooper publish an annual review into the SPL but, given the lateness of some accounts, it is usually a year in arrears.

Last years one is here http://pwc.blogs.com/files/22nd-afr-spr11.pdf and this years is due shortly. Dosent go into great detail but covers the basics.

Super! Considering I start work as an intern there on Monday you'd think I should have checked that first.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think there is no set standard for how to account for players and as a result teams do it differently; that's actually one of the areas I intend to look into.



Super! Considering I start work as an intern there on Monday you'd think I should have checked that first.

There is a standard treatment for players. Transfer fees paid to other clubs & agents are treated as intangible fixed assets and amortised over the period of the player's contract so they don't directly affect profit & loss but the amortisation does. Free transfers and players brought through the system don't have a balance sheet value and sale proceeds net of any residual asset value go to the P&L as gain on sale of IFA. Signing on fees paid to players go to staff costs as does compensation paid on termination of contracts.

BTW Yams accounts are on their way.

[The Falcon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There is a standard treatment for players. Transfer fees paid to other clubs & agents are treated as intangible fixed assets and amortised over the period of the player's contract so they don't directly affect profit & loss but the amortisation does. Free transfers and players brought through the system don't have a balance sheet value and sale proceeds net of any residual asset value go to the P&L as gain on sale of IFA. Signing on fees paid to players go to staff costs as does compensation paid on termination of contracts.

BTW Yams accounts are on their way.

Did someone here not say that the spent more in 11 months after cost cutting than they did in previous 12, despite showing a profit in both years?

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did someone here not say that the spent more in 11 months after cost cutting than they did in previous 12, despite showing a profit in both years?

Not quite. Their monthly wages costs were down a bit, unfortunately their income was down by more. And 'profit' is stretching the truth a bit - they got an £8m bale-out from Mr Romanov in each of the years.

[Eyrie]

Their accounts showed a trading loss, but then Agent Romanov wrote off yet more of the money that they owe him to create a "profit" which was as genuine as Gary Mackay's football medals.

[degenerated]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Companies House... but you'll have to pay

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/60...essCompanyInfo

Or not

http://www.duedil.com/

[rcarter1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You're assuming that they spent all the leftover income as opposed to reducing debt.

OK, fair point, Ive tried to take this into account.

If you take the years 2001 to 2008 which starts with 2,900,000 debt, and ends with 2,900,000 debt, the amount of money spent that needs to be accounted for after turnover, payroll, transfer money is factored is
£31,622,000

Divided by the 8 years, this amounts to £3,952,750 per year. This seems quite high, but then we've paid for east mains and the stadium, and I suppose that these costs don't turn up in the figures presented on the website.

For the year 2003, after including change of debt (which rose by £4,400,000) we needed £6,459,000 to cover additional costs. I can't seem to find the records on the net, but were Hibs doing major stadium redevelopment at the time?

If these high extra annual costs are now paid for and accounted for by debt, then we should be looking pretty good, as I suspect the normal annual costs for running the club must be much lower than £4,000,000. If its more like £2,000,000 per year then thats £40,000 per week savings. Surely at this point we could be increasing wages to get players in..

I wonder if Petrie has considered loaning money to the clubs like motherwell etc to tide them over their 'Rangers Free' financial plight..