Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?

[spike220]

Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?
Can anyone remember a more significant rebuild at Hibs?

Should we insist/expect us to keep on playing the Hibs way? Or should we allow the team to play the way that suits their strengths?

GGTTH

[SRHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?
Can anyone remember a more significant rebuild at Hibs?

Should we insist/expect us to keep on playing the Hibs way? Or should we allow the team to play the way that suits their strengths?

GGTTH

I couldn't care less about how we played if I'm being honest. Let's focus on putting points on the board before we start putting our trademark Brazil-esque football on a pedestal. . It's been a combination of losing and hoof-ball in recent years, so a top 6 finish with pish football would be a breath of fresh air.

[Nailrod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?

Until the next one, some time round about January.

[Pete]

What's the "hibs way" of playing?

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Don't we do this every year?

[spike220]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's the "hibs way" of playing?

well perhaps that is another thread in itself, but I have been led to believe it is playing with the ball on floor with crisp passing and flowing football. But I have not seen a great deal of evidence to support this claim lately.

[Mikeystewart]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

well perhaps that is another thread in itself, but I have been led to believe it is playing with the ball on floor with crisp passing and flowing football. But I have not seen a great deal of evidence to support this claim lately.

Haven't seen it since 2007

[RIP]

The Hibs Board have made a real women's front of squad building over recent years

This amateur approach of hiring a new coach every year and handing him carte blanch to stuff the team full of temps is what got us into this mess in the first place

If there was any justice the chairman and board would have been under considerable pressure as their "revolving door" approach has clearly failed and is at the root of our decline

But we do not hold them to account for our lack of sporting success

I think that is where we, the support, are letting these club custodians off the hook far too easily

[Jim44]

Building a team more or less from scratch is something few, if any, managers at SPL level have ever done. I have my doubts if it can be done successfully in the time that Fenlon has at his disposal. Yes, he had some success in the ROI League but to be fair and honest, does he have the wherewithall to pull off such a feat? I'm not challenging his managerial skills but the enormity of the task. One of the main stumbling blocks, once the right players are found, is to persuade them that Easter Road is a viable place to ply their trade at the moment. Good luck, Pat.

[Beefster]

IMHO the continual rebuilding and lack of long-term strategy, when it comes to players, is almost entirely down to the demise of the scouting operation.

[IWasThere2016]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?
Can anyone remember a more significant rebuild at Hibs?

Should we insist/expect us to keep on playing the Hibs way? Or should we allow the team to play the way that suits their strengths?

GGTTH

Yes - another poor showing/transition will be catastrophic IMHO. We must have impact - good football, top 6 and decent cup showings to keep the fans engaged.

As Beefster says the 'scouting' at ER is a fundamental reason we have regressed on the park (and thus off it also).

[lyonhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't we do this every year?

Indeed. This is the biggest Hibs re-build ever since the last one, and until the next one, this time next year no doubt.

Fret not though, we're just in a "transitional phase"..................

[Captain Trips]

I think it is the biggest, if we were to play a match next week we dont have players in certain positions really. Last rebuild we had players, it was just they were not very good. I was saying and had been for years these loans and short term deals will end in tears and they did.

We need to sign not borrow upwards of 10 players that have the papers and desire to stay here for 2/3 seasons, IMO I do not thnk from what I have season over last 3/4 years we have the people here to do this well.

[YehButNoBut]

Good article in the Scottish Football blog re Hibs rebuilding job, no doubt Pat has a huge job on his hands, only time will tell if he is up to it.

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.u...ting-over.html

Hibs: Starting over



This time last week Hibs were looking forward to a once in a lifetime Scottish Cup final.

Harold Wilson was a Huddersfield Town supporter so he probably knew that if a week is a long time in politics it can be an eternity in football.

A fairly miserable eternity at that.

The Hibs team that turned up at Hampden lacked belief and lacked desire. They were also hopeless.

A triple whammy to die of embarrassment for.

The mind plays tricks but in the back of my mind was the idea that at times Hibs managed to appear more overwhelmed in losing 5-1 to Hearts than Aberdeen did in losing 4-0 to Rangers in the 2000 cup final.

And Hibs didn't have the excuse of losing their only goalkeeper with 87 minutes remaining.

Another Scottish Cup slips by. 111 years now.

Against Hearts. In the first all Edinburgh Scottish Cup final for 116 years. After a performance that made mediocrity look an aspiration.

For a club that likes to stress the importance of supporters as part of the "family" Hibs certainly find ever more inventive ways of smacking their fans in the face.

The positive spin: Hibs escaped relegation and got to an unlikely cup final.

That's not too convincing. Waiting until the penultimate game to finally consign a poor Dunfermline side to the drop with only a second home win of the season.

Then losing your biggest ever game after a humiliatingly dominant display from your greatest rivals.

After finishing tenth the season before.

The negative reality is that mediocrity as aspiration was not a phenomenon unique to last Saturday.

Rather its a culture that seems to have infected the Hibs team - in all its many incarnations - for three years.

Why?

The appointment of Colin Calderwood was clearly a mistake, a mistake compounded by the decision to stand by him - vociferously support him - as he mulled over Steve McLaren's sweeties last summer.

Yet the available statistics still point to Hibs being above average payers.

Which means some of the ten teams that outperformed them in the league this season and the nine above them the season before are doing more with less.

That - combined with the sheer volume of players who come, go and do little memorable in between - points to a breakdown in recruitment and scouting.

Last spring Hibs changed their board structure. In the 12 months since Fife Hyland has proved himself a fairly ineffectual chief executive.

His counterpart in charge of football affairs, Scott Lindsay, hasn't even been that good. As the board's main footballing power Lindsay has had as many managers as home league wins.

Yet with Hyland leaving Hibs - and a response to an email from a fan that I saw on Monday that fairly dripped with sarcasm points to a man delighted to be free - it is Lindsay that chairman Rod Petrie has appointed as chief executive.

That smacks of rewarding failure, of creating a culture of mediocrity from the top that has infected the whole club.

Last summer's blue riband signings were Ivan Sproule and Garry O'Connor. That's indicative of a lack of originality. O'Connor's goals have been important but he's also been inconsistent and featured too often in the news pages. The harsh truth is that when other clubs are moving forward Hibs can't afford to be a philanthropic rehabilitation centre. And Sproule was a nostalgia signing, a player who was always going to be limited when he lost the confidence to live on his pace alone.

Harsh, of course, to pick on just two players. Harsh but illustrative of a club that preaches progression in it's off field dealings but has recently just taggered from one ill conceived quick fix to another on the pitch.

Which brings us to the cobbled together starting eleven that broke every heart in the stadium except Hearts' last weekend.

Loan players, summer signings and youth graduates who have been allowed to drift for too long. Is it any wonder that when asked to become legends they couldn't find it within themselves to discover any sort of spirit?

A team that didn't deserve a cup final playing for a club that recently hasn't deserved even such a distant promise of success.

What now?

A mass clearout has begun, one that goes further than just the disappearance of the far too large cast of loan players.

Such an overhaul is needed - there were five painful examples of why last weekend and there could have been more - but it has to be done with ambition, creativity and a sure hand.

Scrabbling around in the last days of the transfer window, signing players who played in a decent Hibs team six or seven years ago, players who the manager was impressed by four seasons ago, bolstering them with untried loan signings. That's not going to work. Bitter experience points to that. Hibs have at least made the mistakes already. Now they need to learn from them.

A big job for Pat Fenlon.

Rebuild the squad, rebuild the spirit of the squad, rebuild the failing scouting department, make sure the youth squads are producing the kind of player that can once again enhance the first team.

Wipe away this culture of mediocrity, this dangerous complacency that lets people think they've got away with failure because Dunfermline's failure was worse.

He does that now against the ghastly backdrop of the final. The fans, although they'll never forget, need to forgive him and trust him. Trust. He needs that from Rod Petrie and Scott Lindsay as well. When next season kicks off that duo will have been involved in this period of decline longer than anyone else.

They need to back their manager, interfere less and trust his judgement. What if Fenlon gets it wrong or if he finds his ideas are stymied by a disapproving moustache and a boardroom henchman who think, against all the available evidence, they know better how to deliver footballing success?

Well, if that happens then the Scottish Cup semi-final win over Aberdeen could be the last moment of Hibernian cheer for quite some time.

[wearethehibs]

This will be like the 6th re-build in a row. Im getting sick of it

[fat freddy]

we had a major re build in 1986....we started the season with a host of new players such as stuart beedie, billy kirkwood, mark caughey, george mccluskey, mark fulton and steve cowan...perhaps not as big a re build as the one we are about to experience but i remember we started the new season with a good win against the tax dodgers.

[IberianHibernian]

Massive rebuilding task for Fenlon - whole team really since none of the players who`ll stay should be regulars in a decent Hibs team . I`ve always been disappointed when Hibs fans or club talk of top 6 as though it`s success but this year I think it would be a great achievement and I hope fans have patience if early results are disappointing ( very probable with so many new players ) . At least our home results can`t be worse than last year . Hopefully we have a few signings lined up ( cup run was a distraction but thyink Fenlon has always been thinking about next season ) and I`m sure some of them will be loan signings ( that`s reality of modern football just as we expect some of our younger players to get experience with clubs in lower divisions ) . Progress will depend on patience of fans and press and of Fenlon since he`s got a massive challenge ( hope club are ready to reward him if progress is made since in 45 years of watching Hibs I don`t remember any manager being given such a challenge - rotten squad , little sign of young players coming through , pressure from fans after several bad years , financial restrictions , Scottish press not always understanding - prefer to support usual Scottish managers for various reasons etc. ) .

[Hibernia&Alba]

Biggest re-building job in many a year. We're absolutely gash; full of loanees and contracted players who aren't good enough. Next season is crucial in determining whether we go forward with a plan or sink ever further into underachievement and probable relegation. The club needs picking up by the scruff of the neck and throwing into the future. A fundamental re-think of strategy for the long term aims is required. We just can't go on failing like this, it's pathetic and insulting.

[VPHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this the biggest rebuild at Hibs ever?
Can anyone remember a more significant rebuild at Hibs?

Should we insist/expect us to keep on playing the Hibs way? Or should we allow the team to play the way that suits their strengths?

GGTTH

We have been **** since the Brown/Thomson contract rebellion days. Player Power seemed to take over at this point, and we have never recovered since. As any good manager knows, you need to earn the respect of the people who work for you, you will then be able to expect your guys to fight for you. I hope that Pat is the man to do this, as we can't afford any more mistakes. The hibs fans who sorted the display at the cup final were fantastic, inspirational to every Hibee that was there.

Let's all get behind Pat and his rebuilding, as it is not only players and fans who need inspiration, it is the manager as well. Before anybody shoots me down about Pat's tactics at Hampden (I couldn't work out what he was trying to do either), everyone can make a mistake. I would be interested to find out who is willing to cast the first stone, as I for one have made quite a few drastic decisions in my time.

We are all Hibees, we have suffered John Collins (couldn't inspire a fat bird in a cake shop), Yogi (keen but clueless) and Calderdisaster. I think Pat has more to show us, and I would like him to get the chance.

[ekhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Good article in the Scottish Football blog re Hibs rebuilding job, no doubt Pat has a huge job on his hands, only time will tell if he is up to it.

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.u...ting-over.html

Hibs: Starting over



This time last week Hibs were looking forward to a once in a lifetime Scottish Cup final.

Harold Wilson was a Huddersfield Town supporter so he probably knew that if a week is a long time in politics it can be an eternity in football.

A fairly miserable eternity at that.

The Hibs team that turned up at Hampden lacked belief and lacked desire. They were also hopeless.

A triple whammy to die of embarrassment for.

The mind plays tricks but in the back of my mind was the idea that at times Hibs managed to appear more overwhelmed in losing 5-1 to Hearts than Aberdeen did in losing 4-0 to Rangers in the 2000 cup final.

And Hibs didn't have the excuse of losing their only goalkeeper with 87 minutes remaining.

Another Scottish Cup slips by. 111 years now.

Against Hearts. In the first all Edinburgh Scottish Cup final for 116 years. After a performance that made mediocrity look an aspiration.

For a club that likes to stress the importance of supporters as part of the "family" Hibs certainly find ever more inventive ways of smacking their fans in the face.

The positive spin: Hibs escaped relegation and got to an unlikely cup final.

That's not too convincing. Waiting until the penultimate game to finally consign a poor Dunfermline side to the drop with only a second home win of the season.

Then losing your biggest ever game after a humiliatingly dominant display from your greatest rivals.

After finishing tenth the season before.

The negative reality is that mediocrity as aspiration was not a phenomenon unique to last Saturday.

Rather its a culture that seems to have infected the Hibs team - in all its many incarnations - for three years.

Why?

The appointment of Colin Calderwood was clearly a mistake, a mistake compounded by the decision to stand by him - vociferously support him - as he mulled over Steve McLaren's sweeties last summer.

Yet the available statistics still point to Hibs being above average payers.

Which means some of the ten teams that outperformed them in the league this season and the nine above them the season before are doing more with less.

That - combined with the sheer volume of players who come, go and do little memorable in between - points to a breakdown in recruitment and scouting.

Last spring Hibs changed their board structure. In the 12 months since Fife Hyland has proved himself a fairly ineffectual chief executive.

His counterpart in charge of football affairs, Scott Lindsay, hasn't even been that good. As the board's main footballing power Lindsay has had as many managers as home league wins.

Yet with Hyland leaving Hibs - and a response to an email from a fan that I saw on Monday that fairly dripped with sarcasm points to a man delighted to be free - it is Lindsay that chairman Rod Petrie has appointed as chief executive.

That smacks of rewarding failure, of creating a culture of mediocrity from the top that has infected the whole club.

Last summer's blue riband signings were Ivan Sproule and Garry O'Connor. That's indicative of a lack of originality. O'Connor's goals have been important but he's also been inconsistent and featured too often in the news pages. The harsh truth is that when other clubs are moving forward Hibs can't afford to be a philanthropic rehabilitation centre. And Sproule was a nostalgia signing, a player who was always going to be limited when he lost the confidence to live on his pace alone.

Harsh, of course, to pick on just two players. Harsh but illustrative of a club that preaches progression in it's off field dealings but has recently just taggered from one ill conceived quick fix to another on the pitch.

Which brings us to the cobbled together starting eleven that broke every heart in the stadium except Hearts' last weekend.

Loan players, summer signings and youth graduates who have been allowed to drift for too long. Is it any wonder that when asked to become legends they couldn't find it within themselves to discover any sort of spirit?

A team that didn't deserve a cup final playing for a club that recently hasn't deserved even such a distant promise of success.

What now?

A mass clearout has begun, one that goes further than just the disappearance of the far too large cast of loan players.

Such an overhaul is needed - there were five painful examples of why last weekend and there could have been more - but it has to be done with ambition, creativity and a sure hand.

Scrabbling around in the last days of the transfer window, signing players who played in a decent Hibs team six or seven years ago, players who the manager was impressed by four seasons ago, bolstering them with untried loan signings. That's not going to work. Bitter experience points to that. Hibs have at least made the mistakes already. Now they need to learn from them.

A big job for Pat Fenlon.

Rebuild the squad, rebuild the spirit of the squad, rebuild the failing scouting department, make sure the youth squads are producing the kind of player that can once again enhance the first team.

Wipe away this culture of mediocrity, this dangerous complacency that lets people think they've got away with failure because Dunfermline's failure was worse.

He does that now against the ghastly backdrop of the final. The fans, although they'll never forget, need to forgive him and trust him. Trust. He needs that from Rod Petrie and Scott Lindsay as well. When next season kicks off that duo will have been involved in this period of decline longer than anyone else.

They need to back their manager, interfere less and trust his judgement. What if Fenlon gets it wrong or if he finds his ideas are stymied by a disapproving moustache and a boardroom henchman who think, against all the available evidence, they know better how to deliver footballing success?

Well, if that happens then the Scottish Cup semi-final win over Aberdeen could be the last moment of Hibernian cheer for quite some time.

Best article/post I've ever read on hibs.net. Totally agree with every word.