Next Season

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

If we (and will ) survive this season in my opinion Farmer should either sell up or put the club up for grabs, never again should we the fans have to endure this penny pinching board any longer and REAL investment is required, I'm not saying get in to Yam type debt but for goodness sake lets start attracting a decent brand of player to Easter Road, it's not like it's overdue,

Discuss...

[bingo70]

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If we (and will ) survive this season in my opinion Farmer should either sell up or put the club up for grabs, never again should we the fans have to endure this penny pinching board any longer and REAL investment is required, I'm not saying get in to Yam type debt but for goodness sake lets start attracting a decent brand of player to Easter Road, it's not like it's overdue,

Discuss...

Have you got anyone in mind that wants to invest millions into a loss making business?

Farmer has said he'd stand aside but funnily enough there haven't been many folk banging his door down.

[Onceinawhile]

I'm assuming you ignored the post on here that showed we pay the 4th highest average weekly wage??? Anyway I agree, we should get a billionaire to buy the club. Anyone know what Craig whyte is up to?

[DarrenSQH]

I cant believe people still have a go at STF. I struggle to name owners who have done better for their club. Look at Craig Whyte and Mad Vlad and Im more than happy with what we have.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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Have you got anyone in mind that wants to invest millions into a loss making business?

Farmer has said he'd stand aside but funnily enough there haven't been many folk banging his door down.

Agreed bingo and it will be no easy sell that's for sure but the only way to find out is to put the feelers out at some point, Farmer has stated he would listen to any possible investors but has hardly shouted it out from the rafters, obviously we don't want to have a mad vlad on our hands but there's no harm in trying, plus the fact Farmer is 71 now and perhaps looking to take it easy in his later years, and of course he is worth an estimated £130 million I would like to think he would want to put his feet up...but then again people with his kind of money don't do that sort of thing

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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I cant believe people still have a go at STF. I struggle to name owners who have done better for their club. Look at Craig Whyte and Mad Vlad and Im more than happy with what we have.

Here we go again

I'm not having a dig at him, he was our savior but even someone who is not interested in football must surely know that with falling attendances and rank rotten performances the past two seasons it's time to have another think on what to do.

Believe me, if we are in this position next season this message board will be rammed with threads like this..

[stanton53]

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I'm assuming you ignored the post on here that showed we pay the 4th highest average weekly wage??? Anyway I agree, we should get a billionaire to buy the club. Anyone know what Craig whyte is up to?

OK we pay the 4th highest average weekly wage.Then why the hell are we waiting every transfer window to the last day to bring in loan players when we are sitting in a relegation battle.Surely if teams like Motherwell and Hearts can bring in decent players,why cant we.
I have said it before and I will say it again , we will only improve once Petrie and co get replaced by a Board that have Hibs and football as there priority.Petrie should not have apologised over his mistakes,he should have resigned.

[bingo70]

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Agreed bingo and it will be no easy sell that's for sure but the only way to find out is to put the feelers out at some point, Farmer has stated he would listen to any possible investors but has hardly shouted it out from the rafters, obviously we don't want to have a mad vlad on our hands but there's no harm in trying, plus the fact Farmer is 71 now and perhaps looking to take it easy in his later years, and of course he is worth an estimated £130 million I would like to think he would want to put his feet up...but then again people with his kind of money don't do that sort of thing

The problem with 'investment' is that unless it's sustainable then there's no point as we'll back to square one in no time.

Say STF was to have a loopy moment and say we can have £10m this summer (i know that's not what you're suggesting but i'm using that figure to illustrate a point), the cost of wages for people that we could attract for that money would mean that the treasure chest would be gone in no time and we'd still likely only finish third, or with rangers current situation second at best so when these guys contracts run out we'd be where we are now but with rakes of debt.

Boring as it is the investment we need is a gradual one that allows the fan base to grow so we can start to pay for better players ourselves without the need of some billionaire that probably won't ever come.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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The problem with 'investment' is that unless it's sustainable then there's no point as we'll back to square one in no time.

Say STF was to have a loopy moment and say we can have £10m this summer (i know that's not what you're suggesting but i'm using that figure to illustrate a point), the cost of wages for people that we could attract for that money would mean that the treasure chest would be gone in no time and we'd still likely only finish third, or with rangers current situation second at best so when these guys contracts run out we'd be where we are now but with rakes of debt.

Boring as it is the investment we need is a gradual one that allows the fan base to grow so we can start to pay for better players ourselves without the need of some billionaire that probably won't ever come.

Get what your saying bingo and as I've stated it's just not as easy as ABC but in reality something MUST change off the field for us to move forward, I'm not of that business mind set and know we are kind of stuck with what we have but if this is to be then next season may just be another struggle and my old ticker just can't take much more of it..

[Mikey]

It's not investing though, it's spending.

If anyone knows someone who will spend millions on Hibs then give them a shove.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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Petrie should not have apologised over his mistakes,he should have resigned.

But as Farmers golden boy he won't be doing that in the near future...fact

[Geo_1875]

How do we (the board) bring in investors other than put the club up for sale? Who out there has the money to take the club forward? Rangers can't find someone with enough to take them out of administration, and there are apparently billionaires and numerous millionaires interested. Is there any Hibs supporting millionaire with £20-30 million to give away with no expectation of getting it back? Maybe some mysterious Asian business man who's supported us since he saw us win the Dryburgh Cup. I'd rather we spent £1 less than we bring in for the next 30 years than overspend for 3 seasons in a league we can't win and suffer 20 years of costcutting.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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How do we (the board) bring in investors other than put the club up for sale? Who out there has the money to take the club forward? Rangers can't find someone with enough to take them out of administration, and there are apparently billionaires and numerous millionaires interested. Is there any Hibs supporting millionaire with £20-30 million to give away with no expectation of getting it back? Maybe some mysterious Asian business man who's supported us since he saw us win the Dryburgh Cup. I'd rather we spent £1 less than we bring in for the next 30 years than overspend for 3 seasons in a league we can't win and suffer 20 years of costcutting.

So your quite happy to stick with mediocrity aye....unbelievable

We as fans should be rattling the boards cages for some kind of improvement for next season and you come on here and say don't..

As a previous poster has already stated how can clubs like Motherwell, Killie and even the yams attract a better quality of player than us? what's happened to the conveyor belt of young talent we used to have? if the under 19s are so good then why no progress to the first team instead of loan players?

These questions need to be answered mate

[Kris1875]

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So your quite happy to stick with mediocrity aye....unbelievable

We as fans should be rattling the boards cages for some kind of improvement for next season and you come on here and say don't..

As a previous poster has already stated how can clubs like Motherwell, Killie and even the yams attract a better quality of player than us? what's happened to the conveyor belt of young talent we used to have? if the under 19s are so good then why no progress to the first team instead of loan players?

These questions need to be answered mate

Well the way I see it is they've asked for the fans to back the club through season ticket sales etc now going by the figures getting thrown about it looks like we "the fans" have done this so lets see what they do with it come the transfer window . If there's still no improvement then I for one will lead the line for chasing the board !!

[down-the-slope]

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So your quite happy to stick with mediocrity aye....unbelievable

We as fans should be rattling the boards cages for some kind of improvement for next season and you come on here and say don't..

As a previous poster has already stated how can clubs like Motherwell, Killie and even the yams attract a better quality of player than us? what's happened to the conveyor belt of young talent we used to have? if the under 19s are so good then why no progress to the first team instead of loan players?

These questions need to be answered mate

nothing in that post suggested that...just not fancying short Boom followed by big bust...what cant you understand about that.

The extra ST bums on seats is a start to getting a budget for PF to compete with. If more of those crying about cup final tickets turned up to 'support' the club they claim to support we have far more chance of it coming right on the pitch

[pentlando]

In the SPL no matter what budget you are given, there is an opportunity to finish 3rd. Look at Motherwell and Dundee Utd as examples, levels of investment in these sides fall short of what was invested in the Hibs sides. The only criticism I can fire at the board is in their appointment of managers, but this is not a simple task at all. Going on CV's, as we have no idea what was said at interviews, both John Hughes and Colin Calderwood looked good appointments. Pat Fenlon is a manager experienced in budget football, so I have full confidence that he will find some creative signings, such as Henrik Ojamaa for Motherwell and Mackay-Steven for Dundee Utd.

With clubs in both England and Scotland facing extinction on a weekly basis these days, to have folk demanding investment in the Utopian chase for success in Scotland beggars belief IMO.

Success is a secondary priority to survival, and I will not let Hibs carelessly pursue the former over the latter.

[Hibs7]

If I had won that £161m on the lottery I would have bought Hibs, a gradual increase in players budgets would have gone along with increased attendance revenue, that is the only sustainable way to run a club in Scottish football, the Target being having a team that challenges on all fronts every season with a full house every home game. Once at that stage the club should be self financing whilst having a challenging team.

[down the slope]

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Well the way I see it is they've asked for the fans to back the club through season ticket sales etc now going by the figures getting thrown about it looks like we "the fans" have done this so lets see what they do with it come the transfer window . If there's still no improvement then I for one will lead the line for chasing the board !!

You are right, Mikey and Co should be asking how this board have squandered millions on dud managers and players over the last few years yet still drive around in their Porches then have the brass neck to ask us for more !. Don't forget we have an EPL level training centre that cost £ 5 million in the most god awful windswept place that has no link to the city or the fans, someone had delusions of grandeur which has cost us big time and for that the club is paying the price on the park.

[Hibs7]

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You are right, Mikey and Co should be asking how this board have squandered millions on dud managers and players over the last few years yet still drive around in their Porches then have the brass neck to ask us for more !. Don't forget we have an EPL level training centre that cost £ 5 million in the most god awful windswept place that has no link to the city or the fans, someone had delusions of grandeur which has cost us big time and for that the club is paying the price on the park.

Sorry but what has the location of the training centre got to do with anything, a sensible location at a reasonable price, and I am sure buses run close by. Who cares if it is windswept, this is Scotland we are in.

[LeithBoozy]

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You are right, Mikey and Co should be asking how this board have squandered millions on dud managers and players over the last few years yet still drive around in their Porches then have the brass neck to ask us for more !. Don't forget we have an EPL level training centre that cost £ 5 million in the most god awful windswept place that has no link to the city or the fans, someone had delusions of grandeur which has cost us big time and for that the club is paying the price on the park.

You are right, we should have just trained with the students, when the pitch was free, up at Wreckerton.

[--------]

I can fully appreciate the difficulties of getting someone to take over from Farmer; however, whatever he himself has said about being ready to hand over, he doesn't exactly sound to me as if he really means it.

After Farmer's ringing endorsement of Petrie at last AGM, I can't see Petrie going anywhere anytime soon. So we're stuck with him, and we just have to hope that Pat Fenlon is the right man for the job and stays around long enough to get us back on a more stable foundation teamwise. AND that Farmer and Petrie give him the backing - financial and otherwise - to do just that.

But as far as I can see the club has been in a state of turmoil for the past few years - huge turnover of playing staff, a manager every 14 months or so, slowly sliding down the League, and now, two games from the end of the season, still not safe from relegation. I say turmoil, but to me we're stagnating with a leadership that really has no proper plan for progress on the pitch, that seems fixated on the balance sheet and on material infrastructure - ER and East Mains - and no real desire at the top of the club to see results improve. The Cup Final I suspect is seen as their get-out-of-jail card for next season; well, it's League form that's the measure of the real health of a football club, and we're the sick man of the SPL and no mistake. Gross under-achievers, to say the least.

they want me to buy an ST - well, this season, with Sunday games and games kicking off on different weeknight evenings, more than half the fixtures were at times I was working or had prior engagements. No one can plan to be at games on a regular basis if tose games are scattered all over the calendar the way SPL fixtures now are.

And unless I've grossly misunderstood the situation, THEY are the people responsible for putting a team on the pitch that's worth MY paying £20 plus of my hard-earned cash to watch. A day at ER with my son costs us nigh on £100 between us - for the dross that's been on show for far too long and an owner, board and CEO whose genuine commitment to the team I take leave to doubt? No way.

If they want me at ER, they have a responsibility to fulfil their obligation to get the club running efficiently with a half-decent team on the pitch. I am NOT going to feed their failures out of my less-than-bulging wallet.

So all in all, I agree with the OP. Time for the heid yins to either shape up or ship out.

[DH1875]

It's got nothing to do with STF or Petrie. It all boils down to poor management and choices. If you look back over the last couple of years we could easily have had:

Manager: Stuart McCall.

GK: Cammy Bell.

LB: Paul Dixon.
CB: McPake.
CB: Charlie Mulgrew.
RB: Steven Saunders.

LM: Chris Humphrey.
Mid: Kari Anderson.
Mid: Manu Pascali.
RM: Mackay-Steven.

ST: Fran Sandaza.
ST: Garry O

With a squad made up from the likes of;

Darren Randolph.
Dean Shiels.
Nicky Law.
Paul McGowan.
Kujabi.
Michael Higdon.
Jim Goodwin.
Henrick Ojamaa.
Griffiths.


Would walk the league .

[Brebners Bookie]

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So your quite happy to stick with mediocrity aye....unbelievable

We as fans should be rattling the boards cages for some kind of improvement for next season and you come on here and say don't..

As a previous poster has already stated how can clubs like Motherwell, Killie and even the yams attract a better quality of player than us? what's happened to the conveyor belt of young talent we used to have? if the under 19s are so good then why no progress to the first team instead of loan players?

These questions need to be answered mate

What you're talking about there isn't a problem with investment it's a problem with scouting. Which i believe to be the club's biggest problem (maybe changing now).

We DO pay the 4th highest amount in the league, but whereas we could have used those wages to pay the likes of Jennings, Pascali, Higdon. We payed the same amount to Agogo.

[Kaiser1962]

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If we (and will ) survive this season in my opinion Farmer should either sell up or put the club up for grabs, never again should we the fans have to endure this penny pinching board any longer and REAL investment is required, I'm not saying get in to Yam type debt but for goodness sake lets start attracting a decent brand of player to Easter Road, it's not like it's overdue,

Discuss...

How much of a return do you expect from this "investment" ?

Having watched the shenanigans at the Hun and how much they appear to "worth", after all they are the most successful club in the world apparently, bust, but successful. If there's a billionaire out there then fine, crack on, but there isnt, not one that isnt hiding.

As others have pointed out our problems are down to bad management on the playing side. The inevitable argument is then "but who appointed them" and thats fair enough but the guy who who has forked out well over £10m wants Rod there so Rod stays there. If there's someone else with that sort of wealth to throw around then let them step forward and they can employ whoever they want, now would be a good time for them to make themselves known.

That is not accepting mediocrity, it's facing reality.

[--------]

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How much of a return do you expect from this "investment" ?

Having watched the shenanigans at the Hun and how much they appear to "worth", after all they are the most successful club in the world apparently, bust, but successful. If there's a billionaire out there then fine, crack on, but there isnt, not one that isnt hiding.

As others have pointed out our problems are down to bad management on the playing side. The inevitable argument is then "but who appointed them" and thats fair enough but the guy who who has forked out well over £10m wants Rod there so Rod stays there. If there's someone else with that sort of wealth to throw around then let them step forward and they can employ whoever they want, now would be a good time for them to make themselves known.

That is not accepting mediocrity, it's facing reality.

Then the man who pays the piper (or in this case the CEO) and calls the tune shouldn't be surprised when people like me aren't conned by the "Hibernian family" nonsense and decide to vote with our feet for as long as the tune he's calling isn't to our taste. That's facing reality.

Farmer would never have allowed top managers in his other businesses as much leeway with similar unsatisfactory results as he's allowed RP at Hibs.

[stanton53]

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Then the man who pays the piper (or in this case the CEO) and calls the tune shouldn't be surprised when people like me aren't conned by the "Hibernian family" nonsense and decide to vote with our feet for as long as the tune he's calling isn't to our taste. That's facing reality.

Farmer would never have allowed top managers in his other businesses as much leeway with similar unsatisfactory results as he's allowed RP at Hibs.

Spot on.

[ScottB]

NOBODY is going to buy Hibs and pump in millions while being happy to never see it again, because they wouldn't.

This demanding Farmer to sell up and wanting more money is an utter nonsense. The club has effectively been up for sale since the day he took over, nobody in their right mind (and I include Wild Bill Miller) would buy an SPL club. There's no money in this league to be won. The only chance would be some as yet unknown mega rich Hibs fan, but those don't exist.

Besides, as others have pointed out, Motherwell are pushing second place on a budget far lower than ours. Our issue is not, and has not been a lack of budget. As far as I'm concerned it's an urban legend. Our problems are a result of Hughes and Calderwood wasting most of their budget on shocking players. Moving forward, if we could get in place as good a scouting system as Motherwell and Dundee United seem to have, that uncovers talent in the SFL and less attractive European leagues (y'know, the sort of players that the moaners on here inevitably decry as beneath us) then we would be in business.

The answer to our problems isn't more money. It's using the money we have more effectively. If on the 4th largest wage budget in the league we mostly seem to sign crap, what exactly suggests bumping that up is the way to have a better squad than the 7 teams above us that spend less?

[Kaiser1962]

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Then the man who pays the piper (or in this case the CEO) and calls the tune shouldn't be surprised when people like me aren't conned by the "Hibernian family" nonsense and decide to vote with our feet for as long as the tune he's calling isn't to our taste. That's facing reality.

Farmer would never have allowed top managers in his other businesses as much leeway with similar unsatisfactory results as he's allowed RP at Hibs.

But what do you define as "unsatisfactory results" from Farmer's POV Doddie? We are gash on the pitch, of that there is no argument, but off it we are reasonably healthy, or as reasonably healthy as it is for a football team to be in the SPL.

Rangers, on the other hand, are hugely successful (the most successful football club in the world apparently) but their owners should be in jail.

[Spike Mandela]

Why not go for a strategy of reckless spending now, enjoy the benefits as fans and then pay nobody the money we owe them. Then do a deal with someone on the cheap and form newco Edinburgh Hibernian wth ER, the players and the history and leave all the toxic stuff in the oldco.

I reckon it's a legitamate( copyright Duff and Phelps) strategy to follow and could work. I'm sure there is a template somewhere.

[--------]

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But what do you define as "unsatisfactory results" from Farmer's POV Doddie? We are gash on the pitch, of that there is no argument, but off it we are reasonably healthy, or as reasonably healthy as it is for a football team to be in the SPL.

Rangers, on the other hand, are hugely successful (the most successful football club in the world apparently) but their owners should be in jail.

Kaiser, if Farmer hasn't realised that the fans won't turn out to watch garbage - which is what he and his board have been serving up for too long now - then he's not the businessman I take him for. The team on the pitch is the merchandise he's offering for sale. If that merchandise is substandard, no one's going to buy it - well, some might, for a while, but you can guarantee that the customer base is going to suffer severe shrinkage if the situation isn't rectified and he doesn't start applying some fairly strict quality control.

I usually shop in Tesco, but if Tesco starts selling me rotten eggs, stale bread, and sour milk, I'll go to Morrisons or ASDA, right? Maybe I'm getting too old for this, but after half a century I'm getting a wee bit tired of the people at Hibs just assuming they have the right to count on my money regardless of how they're running the club. First it was Bill Harrower, then Tom Hart, then Kenny Waugh, then DuffanGray. now Tom Farmer.

I appreciate that we'll never be able to spend big money like the top clubs, but when East Mains was announced, my understanding was that the plan - the long-term plan - was to use those facilities to develop young players to come into the team, to stay for 3/4 years and then move on, bringing revenue into the club through transfer fees. This seemed to me to be a good plan, but it's a plan that depends on the people at the top of the club gettin certain things right - like the appointment of the right manager and coaching staff, like the imaginative marketing of the club to young players, their families and agents, like not appointing manager after manager on a 14-month cycle and setting out to break world record after world record for the biggest number of complete diddies ever signed by a football club over a five-year period.

If our situation rigth now was new - if Hughes had left us in good nick and Calderwood had come in and proved to be the uselss waste of space he proved to be and now the board had to somehow sort things out, avoiding relegation after a one-off bad season, I wouldn't be so brassed-off as I undoubtedly am. But 7 years ago, with Mowbray in place, we were on the up, without gimmicks, without the 'family' nonsense, just a medium-sized club playing decent football and looking OK. FIVE years ago we won the League Cup in a style almost unprecedented for a non-OF team - when does anyone other than Rangers or Celtic win 5-1 in a Hampden final? How have we got to where we are now?

And supposing PF DOES turn us around? (Personally, I think he will, but ... who can tell?) Are Farmer and Petrie sufficiently serious about the club and team to make a serious effort to keep him? Can they get the youth development program working more effectively? Will we ever be a real football team ever again? (Just joking on the last one.)

Staying up will be the first step. That needs doing Monday night. If farmer and Petrie can then move on to get the club running as a football club should run, with the team as the top priority and everyone pulling together, no one will be more delighted than I. But the last 5 years have given them a lot of work to do; IMO they dug the hole, and they're the ones who have to get us out of it. Or hand it over to someone who will.