are hearts able to play in Europe next season?

[Fergus52]

this has been mentioned on another thread, but I would like it to be clarified.

Will the fact they did not have audited accounts by the end of march prevent them from playing in Europe next season, should they qualify?

[jgl07]

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this has been mentioned on another thread, but I would like it to be clarified.

Will the fact they did not have audited accounts by the end of march prevent them from playing in Europe next season, should they qualify?

This has been coming for some time.

It hasbeen missed by all the (alleged) journalists in Scotlland.

Hearts have struggled to get audited accounts submitted for ntwo or three years. This year Vlad has more or less admitted that Hearts are on their own financially. This has been backed up by the failure of Hearts to pay wages on time. They manged to make some payments thanks to one transfer during the January window and the season ticket 'dynamic pricing' scam in March.

If Hearts had ther accounts audited, this would have been splashed all over the sports pages. It has not been so publicized, so I supsect that it has not happened.

Hearts are (two weeks) late with the submission of audited accounts, and hence will not get a European licence for 2012-13.

By my reckoning, hat means that Hibs will take their place in the Paly-off Round of the Europa Cup on 23-30 August 2012.

[Fergus52]

thank you!

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://splstats.wordpress.com/2012/0...ope-an-update/

picked this up on another thread

If Hibs win the Scottish Cup
Hibs will enter the Europa League along with the 4th and 5th placed SPL sides. They will enter at the following stages of the competition.
Hibs – Play-off Round
4th in SPL – 3rd Qualifying Round
5th in SPL – 2nd Qualifying Round


If Hearts finish 2nd/3rd in the SPL and win the Scottish Cup
Hearts will qualify for the Champions League if they finish 2nd or 3rd. If a Champions League qualifying team wins the Scottish Cup, then the runners-up get into Europe as the cup representatives. That would mean that Hibs would qualify for Europe.
4th in SPL – Play-off Round
5th in SPL – 3rd Qualifying Round
Hibs – 2nd Qualifying Round


If Hearts finish 4th-6th in SPL and win the Scottish Cup
Even if they also qualify for Europe via the league, Hearts will officially be considered to be the cup representatives in the Europa League. As a result, the cup runners-up would not get a place in Europe, and it would instead go to the next placed side in the SPL. This would mean that all the clubs (except Rangers) in the top 6 would qualify for Europe.
Hearts – Play-off Round
4th in SPL (5th if Hearts finish 4th) – 3rd Qualifying Round
5th in SPL (or 6th if Hearts finish 4th/5th) – 2nd Qualifying Round

[cabbageandribs1875]

jgl , once again...i hope you're right

[Brebners Bookie]

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This has been coming for some time.

It hasbeen missed by all the (alleged) journalists in Scotlland.

Hearts have struggled to get audited accounts submitted for ntwo or three years. This year Vlad has more or less admitted that Hearts are on their own financially. This has been backed up by the failure of Hearts to pay wages on time. They manged to make some payments thanks to one transfer during the January window and the season ticket 'dynamic pricing' scam in March.

If Hearts had ther accounts audited, this would have been splashed all over the sports pages. It has not been so publicized, so I supsect that it has not happened.

Hearts are (two weeks) late with the submission of audited accounts, and hence will not get a European licence for 2012-13.

By my reckoning, hat means that Hibs will take their place in the Paly-off Round of the Europa Cup on 23-30 August 2012.

I would not be at all surprised if they got a license anyway, wonder why nothing has been made of this?

[jgl07]

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If Hearts finish 2nd/3rd in the SPL and win the Scottish Cup
Hearts will qualify for the Champions League if they finish 2nd or 3rd. If a Champions League qualifying team wins the Scottish Cup, then the runners-up get into Europe as the cup representatives. That would mean that Hibs would qualify for Europe.
4th in SPL – Play-off Round
5th in SPL – 3rd Qualifying Round
Hibs – 2nd Qualifying Round


If Hearts finish 4th-6th in SPL and win the Scottish Cup
Even if they also qualify for Europe via the league, Hearts will officially be considered to be the cup representatives in the Europa League. As a result, the cup runners-up would not get a place in Europe, and it would instead go to the next placed side in the SPL. This would mean that all the clubs (except Rangers) in the top 6 would qualify for Europe.
Hearts – Play-off Round
4th in SPL (5th if Hearts finish 4th) – 3rd Qualifying Round
5th in SPL (or 6th if Hearts finish 4th/5th) – 2nd Qualifying Round



[/FONT][/COLOR]

The question remains in the above scenarios if Hearts fail to get a 2012-13 European Licence.

If Hearts are in a Champions' League qualification place, the CL place will go to the next (4th placed) team. I would guess that would leave Hibs as the notional 'Cup Winner' as far as the Europa League was concerned but it could be detrmined that the Europa League place should go to the seventh placed team in the League.

It appears more clear cut if Hearts do not finish in a CL qualifying place as the Europa Cup (cup winners) place would go to Hibs.

[Halifaxhibby]

they are the diet huns, just like their big brothers, the sfa will pull out all the stops for them, then introduce a rule the day after their admitted to europe saying their tightening up the rules, as i posted on another thread, what is there to stop hibs signing 2 or 3 world class players on loan from another league til the end of the season,then refusing to pay them(not saying thats what hertz have done but you catch my drift regarding beattie). Scottish football is a joke, we have suffered on the park because we adhered to the rules and now the cheats will receive nothing more than a slap on the wrists.

[Titch]

Not going to matter one little bit WE ARE WINNING IT.
GGTTH

[Hibby_G]

i do not think they will i think hibees will

[Caversham Green]

The rules (which take effect for the first time this year) are not just that clubs have to have submitted audited accounts by 31 March, but also that the audit report must not contain a qualification or emphasis of matter relating to 'going concern'. HoMFC's accounts have had one or the other every year since 2005.

A further problem for them is that the qualifications/EoMs have stated that the club was only a going concern because of the continued financial support of its owners. A few months ago the owners stated in the press and on the club's own website that financial support had been withdrawn - the inevitable conclusion is that the club is no longer a going concern. In practice that means that the auditors would be unlikely to sign a report of any sort. This has been partially alleviated by a subsequent statement that limited support would continue, and that probably is enough to produce a (heavily qualified) audit report, but there is not a snowflake's chance of getting a clean one.

Their only hope of playing in Europe is that the authorities are lenient because this is the first year of the regulations, but that would be unfair to the 10 clubs in the SPL who have abided by the rules.

Edit: Just had a look at Cos Hos and they haven't been submitted there yet - they're due by the end of this month

[happiehibbie]

Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/07/2010 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2011 OVERDUE
Last Return Made Up To: 22/08/2011
Next Return Due: 19/09/2012

copied this from Companies house looks to me they are over due

[Spike Mandela]

I talke it we submitted audited accounts this year then?

[Caversham Green]

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I talke it we submitted audited accounts this year then?

Presumably. They were signed on 29 August 2011 and published on 14 October, so I'd be astonished if they hadn't been submitted by 31 March.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/07/2010 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2011 OVERDUE
Last Return Made Up To: 22/08/2011
Next Return Due: 19/09/2012

copied this from Companies house looks to me they are over due

That means that they are overdue at Companies House. It doesn't mean that they haven't been lodged with the SFA.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The rules (which take effect for the first time this year) are not just that clubs have to have submitted audited accounts by 31 March, but also that the audit report must not contain a qualification or emphasis of matter relating to 'going concern'. HoMFC's accounts have had one or the other every year since 2005.

A further problem for them is that the qualifications/EoMs have stated that the club was only a going concern because of the continued financial support of its owners. A few months ago the owners stated in the press and on the club's own website that financial support had been withdrawn - the inevitable conclusion is that the club is no longer a going concern. In practice that means that the auditors would be unlikely to sign a report of any sort. This has been partially alleviated by a subsequent statement that limited support would continue, and that probably is enough to produce a (heavily qualified) audit report, but there is not a snowflake's chance of getting a clean one.

Their only hope of playing in Europe is that the authorities are lenient because this is the first year of the regulations, but that would be unfair to the 10 clubs in the SPL who have abided by the rules.

I reckon this is the way it will go, Cav. It'll be a bit like the OSCR scenario, where charities were allowed a period of grace to get used to the new regime, and then... bang, the sanctions kicked in.

[Caversham Green]

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I reckon this is the way it will go, Cav. It'll be a bit like the OSCR scenario, where charities were allowed a period of grace to get used to the new regime, and then... bang, the sanctions kicked in.

I think the difference is that being lenient here has a direct impact on other clubs who have followed the rules. Then there's the political fallout from the Rangers predicament - will they want to let HoMFC in when RFC are banned?

[Spike Mandela]

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Presumably. They were signed on 29 August 2011 and published on 14 October, so I'd be astonished if they hadn't been submitted by 31 March.

Excuse my ignorance thought every big team took it to the wire

[greenginger]

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That means that they are overdue at Companies House. It doesn't mean that they haven't been lodged with the SFA.

Yeah, but considering the late filing penalty doubles for more than 3 months late, why not file if the accounts have been signed off.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yeah, but considering the late filing penalty doubles for more than 3 months late, why not file if the accounts have been signed off.

Oh, agreed. I'm just being a bit cautious, is all.

But, considering that Companies House is a public record, they might take the view that they want the accounts hidden from view for as long as possible. That's what big companies do, after all.

[Caversham Green]

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Excuse my ignorance thought every big team took it to the wire

I see I edited the wrong post .

The edit on Post #11 was meant for Post #14. Looks like Hibs are starting to act like a big team at last.

[jgl07]

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The rules (which take effect for the first time this year) are not just that clubs have to have submitted audited accounts by 31 March, but also that the audit report must not contain a qualification or emphasis of matter relating to 'going concern'. HoMFC's accounts have had one or the other every year since 2005.

A further problem for them is that the qualifications/EoMs have stated that the club was only a going concern because of the continued financial support of its owners. A few months ago the owners stated in the press and on the club's own website that financial support had been withdrawn - the inevitable conclusion is that the club is no longer a going concern. In practice that means that the auditors would be unlikely to sign a report of any sort. This has been partially alleviated by a subsequent statement that limited support would continue, and that probably is enough to produce a (heavily qualified) audit report, but there is not a snowflake's chance of getting a clean one.

Their only hope of playing in Europe is that the authorities are lenient because this is the first year of the regulations, but that would be unfair to the 10 clubs in the SPL who have abided by the rules.

But this is not a totally new rule for European Competition. In the case of the 2010-11 Europa Cup, Portsmouth were denied a European Licence because they failed to submit accounts on time after going into administration. They had qualified after finishing runners up in the FA Cup:

"Portsmouth, the runners-up of the 2009–10 FA Cup to Champions League-qualified Chelsea, did not obtain a UEFA licence, meaning they could not qualify for Europe. Portsmouth had appealed to UEFA, the Premier League and the English FA, but the latter two would not allow late applications for the licence.[9] As a result, the seventh-placed team of the 2009–10 Premier League, Liverpool, claimed the Europa League spot in the third qualifying round".

Also Vetra and Mallorca were denied places in the European Cup on financial grounds.

I understood that the new rules affected the ability of the club in question to play domestic as well as European football.

[Caversham Green]

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But this is not a totally new rule for European Competition. In the case of the 2010-11 Europa Cup, Portsmouth were denied a European Licence because they failed to submit accounts on time after going into administration. They had qualified after finishing runners up in the FA Cup:

"Portsmouth, the runners-up of the 2009–10 FA Cup to Champions League-qualified Chelsea, did not obtain a UEFA licence, meaning they could not qualify for Europe. Portsmouth had appealed to UEFA, the Premier League and the English FA, but the latter two would not allow late applications for the licence.[9] As a result, the seventh-placed team of the 2009–10 Premier League, Liverpool, claimed the Europa League spot in the third qualifying round".

Also Vetra and Mallorca were denied places in the European Cup on financial grounds.

I understood that the new rules affected the ability of the club in question to play domestic as well as European football.

I thought that Portsmouth had just failed to apply rather than specifically failing to submit accounts - I could be wrong though. The new rules do indeed apply to domestic football as well, but I suspect there is greater scope for flexibility - i.e. they can override the rule if they believe it to be in the interests of Rang....I mean the league.

[jgl07]

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I thought that Portsmouth had just failed to apply rather than specifically failing to submit accounts - I could be wrong though.

I think that initially they did not apply because they were in administration but after a CVA was agreed they tried to apply retrospectively. That the impression that I get from reading the footnote regarding their appeal.

[MB62]

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I see I edited the wrong post .

The edit on Post #11 was meant for Post #14. Looks like Hibs are starting to act like a big team at last.

I don't get post numbers or time or date of posts now. That all disappeared a while back after some update or other with .net providers I think it was.

[HibbyAndy]

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i do not think they will i think hibees will

Up early boyo


And aye, A agree

[PaulSmith]

Why doesn't someone just tweet Stewart Regan, Scottish FA or Hearts and ask them if they have can confirm the clubs that have met the criteria to be put forward for Europe next season?