My response to Club / Directors to latest ST reminder email

[down-the-slope]

Like many Season Ticket holders I have watched Hibs through thick and (mostly) thin over the past 25 + years.

Like many others I know – and a quick look at the main football forums would confirm this strength of feeling – the current situation regarding the Old Firm / Voting rights / Rangers apparent soon liquidation, is causing more disillusionment than all the years of thin success.

The hardly questioned clamour in many parts of the media, and even among other SPL chairmen, to bend over backwards to see any NewCo Rangers catered for in the SPL is alarming in terms of basic sporting integrity. While we accept as Hibs supporters that at the beginning of a season our chances of success are slim, we live for the times when we do achieve something. However the idea that the rules of the sport can be run rough shod over, to say nothing of alleged illegality and withholding of taxes due, and that this could go unpunished and leaving a situation where they in fact benefit by being debt free is too much. A level of basic fairness is required to know that all who make up the league have a voice and are treated the same. How should those of us parents explain things to our children? If you are big enough and have friends in high places, and money is at stake…the rules don’t apply?

I therefore – again like many – find it impossible to consider renewing our Season Tickets until this situation is resolved and an outcome that restores fairness to the league and applies suitable punishment to those who don’t abide by the rules as they stand.

The early renewal date falling before the meeting on voting rights in the SPL is very unfortunate. It would perhaps show the club understands the strength of feeling if the deadline were delayed until after this meeting when I like many hope that a fairer voting arrangement can be established. Alternatively if things remain the way they are and / or a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

[JeMeSouviens]

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a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

Well said and I hope everybody who feels like this takes the time to email the club.

(Slightly pedantic) point of order though: the liquidated club will no longer exist and so cannot be penalised. The media campaign is to railroad a completely new entity (with no legal connection whatsoever to the existing Rangers) directly into the SPL. Any new club starting out in the Scottish league structure must apply for entry at the bottom. Anything else is corrupt and completely undermines Scottish football.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Fair points but I'm not really interested in them, they will survive no matter what.

What I want is an end to this taking on loan players and actually investing in some quality on the park, the board have failed big time and have some cheek asking us for money when this (and last) season were nothing short of disgraceful.

Sort it on the playing field then they will see a response, it's not rocket science is it?

That is all...

[CentreLine]

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Like many Season Ticket holders I have watched Hibs through thick and (mostly) thin over the past 25 + years.

Like many others I know – and a quick look at the main football forums would confirm this strength of feeling – the current situation regarding the Old Firm / Voting rights / Rangers apparent soon liquidation, is causing more disillusionment than all the years of thin success.

The hardly questioned clamour in many parts of the media, and even among other SPL chairmen, to bend over backwards to see any NewCo Rangers catered for in the SPL is alarming in terms of basic sporting integrity. While we accept as Hibs supporters that at the beginning of a season our chances of success are slim, we live for the times when we do achieve something. However the idea that the rules of the sport can be run rough shod over, to say nothing of alleged illegality and withholding of taxes due, and that this could go unpunished and leaving a situation where they in fact benefit by being debt free is too much. A level of basic fairness is required to know that all who make up the league have a voice and are treated the same. How should those of us parents explain things to our children? If you are big enough and have friends in high places, and money is at stake…the rules don’t apply?

I therefore – again like many – find it impossible to consider renewing our Season Tickets until this situation is resolved and an outcome that restores fairness to the league and applies suitable punishment to those who don’t abide by the rules as they stand.

The early renewal date falling before the meeting on voting rights in the SPL is very unfortunate. It would perhaps show the club understands the strength of feeling if the deadline were delayed until after this meeting when I like many hope that a fairer voting arrangement can be established. Alternatively if things remain the way they are and / or a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

What he said

[Eaststand]

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Like many Season Ticket holders I have watched Hibs through thick and (mostly) thin over the past 25 + years.

Like many others I know – and a quick look at the main football forums would confirm this strength of feeling – the current situation regarding the Old Firm / Voting rights / Rangers apparent soon liquidation, is causing more disillusionment than all the years of thin success.

The hardly questioned clamour in many parts of the media, and even among other SPL chairmen, to bend over backwards to see any NewCo Rangers catered for in the SPL is alarming in terms of basic sporting integrity. While we accept as Hibs supporters that at the beginning of a season our chances of success are slim, we live for the times when we do achieve something. However the idea that the rules of the sport can be run rough shod over, to say nothing of alleged illegality and withholding of taxes due, and that this could go unpunished and leaving a situation where they in fact benefit by being debt free is too much. A level of basic fairness is required to know that all who make up the league have a voice and are treated the same. How should those of us parents explain things to our children? If you are big enough and have friends in high places, and money is at stake…the rules don’t apply?

I therefore – again like many – find it impossible to consider renewing our Season Tickets until this situation is resolved and an outcome that restores fairness to the league and applies suitable punishment to those who don’t abide by the rules as they stand.

The early renewal date falling before the meeting on voting rights in the SPL is very unfortunate. It would perhaps show the club understands the strength of feeling if the deadline were delayed until after this meeting when I like many hope that a fairer voting arrangement can be established. Alternatively if things remain the way they are and / or a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

Your post sums it up pretty well for me DTS and also for a few other Hibbies I know too.

GGTTH

[muzzhfc]

Scottish football is in such a bad state. Not the quality on the parks but in the boardroom of the SPL. Rangers & Celtic pretty much decide whats "best" for the "league" due to the voting system. They get the magority of the TV revenue, fixtures are changed to accomodate the TV companies. Talk of Rangers getting rail roaded back into the SPL if they go out of business. And a certain team in pink also failing to pay wages/taxes on time (no one really talks about this anymore - its all about Rangers. The team in pink have done exactly what Rangers have done - just saying) and goes unpunnished. IF the voting system isnt changed, the tv money isnt shared more equally, and the boards of the 10 dont do anything about this, then I will no longer follow Scottish football. If the voting system, etc is changed but Rangers United get rail roaded back into the SPL I would also stop following as Gretna had to re start from the 3rd Division, they didnt get allowed back into the First Division, Livingston were sent to the 3rd Division not so long ago for entering administration.
Its ridiculous. Time for change. And the boards MUST listen and follow the supporters, not the other way round

[Andy74]

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Fair points but I'm not really interested in them, they will survive no matter what.

What I want is an end to this taking on loan players and actually investing in some quality on the park, the board have failed big time and have some cheek asking us for money when this (and last) season were nothing short of disgraceful.

Sort it on the playing field then they will see a response, it's not rocket science is it?

That is all...

You say that as if we habitually loan players...

[WindyMiller]

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Like many Season Ticket holders I have watched Hibs through thick and (mostly) thin over the past 25 + years.

Like many others I know – and a quick look at the main football forums would confirm this strength of feeling – the current situation regarding the Old Firm / Voting rights / Rangers apparent soon liquidation, is causing more disillusionment than all the years of thin success.

The hardly questioned clamour in many parts of the media, and even among other SPL chairmen, to bend over backwards to see any NewCo Rangers catered for in the SPL is alarming in terms of basic sporting integrity. While we accept as Hibs supporters that at the beginning of a season our chances of success are slim, we live for the times when we do achieve something. However the idea that the rules of the sport can be run rough shod over, to say nothing of alleged illegality and withholding of taxes due, and that this could go unpunished and leaving a situation where they in fact benefit by being debt free is too much. A level of basic fairness is required to know that all who make up the league have a voice and are treated the same. How should those of us parents explain things to our children? If you are big enough and have friends in high places, and money is at stake…the rules don’t apply?

I therefore – again like many – find it impossible to consider renewing our Season Tickets until this situation is resolved and an outcome that restores fairness to the league and applies suitable punishment to those who don’t abide by the rules as they stand.

The early renewal date falling before the meeting on voting rights in the SPL is very unfortunate. It would perhaps show the club understands the strength of feeling if the deadline were delayed until after this meeting when I like many hope that a fairer voting arrangement can be established. Alternatively if things remain the way they are and / or a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

My shift patterns have never made an ST a viable option, but I attend 15-20 games per season and I agree entirely with your post.
Although non attendance would directly effect my Club, I couldn't condone the Huns just being allowed to carry on as before.

I'd rather be a part of the SFL.

[Hibs Class]

I've sent something similar to the club, I agree it's important that they understand how at least some supporters feel about this.

[down-the-slope]

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I've sent something similar to the club, I agree it's important that they understand how at least some supporters feel about this.

good stuff - its important that the board (Rod in particular) know this when they goto meeting next week and others start softening their stance as I suspect they will....

My aim in posting my email was to encourage others to make their views known to the club so that they trealise its a watershed

[SquashedFrogg]

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Fair points but I'm not really interested in them, they will survive no matter what.

What I want is an end to this taking on loan players and actually investing in some quality on the park, the board have failed big time and have some cheek asking us for money when this (and last) season were nothing short of disgraceful.

Sort it on the playing field then they will see a response, it's not rocket science is it?

That is all...

So why comment?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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So why comment?

Surely you know the answer?

Rangers (and Celtic) will always continue to dictate what is and what isn't, any communications regarding these two will be binned no matter who you email or write to.

I want us as Hibernian fans to lobby the board on what's good for us, not other teams! why waste your time moaning about the old firm?, pointless in my book.

[hibbymac]

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Surely you know the answer?

Rangers (and Celtic) will always continue to dictate what is and what isn't, any communications regarding these two will be binned no matter who you email or write to.

I want us as Hibernian fans to lobby the board on what's good for us, not other teams! why waste your time moaning about the old firm?, pointless in my book.

Ehhh, is that not the point the OP was making?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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Ehhh, is that not the point the OP was making?

FFS It doesn't look that way to me!

What I'm getting at is that it's pointless giving our board a hard time for not doing anything about the huns, as I've stated it does not matter who we shake a stick at they will be here for the long run so what's the point in this?, nothing wrong with venting your displeasure at it but I would have thought we would be better lobbying the board on OUR needs not either of the OF...

Lordy!

[hibbymac]

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FFS It doesn't look that way to me!

What I'm getting at is that it's pointless giving our board a hard time for not doing anything about the huns, as I've stated it does not matter who we shake a stick at they will be here for the long run so what's the point in this?, nothing wrong with venting your displeasure at it but I would have thought we would be better lobbying the board on OUR needs not either of the OF...

Lordy!

If you really think the OP was just "giving our board a hard time for not doing anything about the huns", I think you should try reading it again.

...... or maybe the OP, will tell me I have got him/her all wrong.

[Onion]

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Like many Season Ticket holders I have watched Hibs through thick and (mostly) thin over the past 25 + years.

Like many others I know – and a quick look at the main football forums would confirm this strength of feeling – the current situation regarding the Old Firm / Voting rights / Rangers apparent soon liquidation, is causing more disillusionment than all the years of thin success.

The hardly questioned clamour in many parts of the media, and even among other SPL chairmen, to bend over backwards to see any NewCo Rangers catered for in the SPL is alarming in terms of basic sporting integrity. While we accept as Hibs supporters that at the beginning of a season our chances of success are slim, we live for the times when we do achieve something. However the idea that the rules of the sport can be run rough shod over, to say nothing of alleged illegality and withholding of taxes due, and that this could go unpunished and leaving a situation where they in fact benefit by being debt free is too much. A level of basic fairness is required to know that all who make up the league have a voice and are treated the same. How should those of us parents explain things to our children? If you are big enough and have friends in high places, and money is at stake…the rules don’t apply?

I therefore – again like many – find it impossible to consider renewing our Season Tickets until this situation is resolved and an outcome that restores fairness to the league and applies suitable punishment to those who don’t abide by the rules as they stand.

The early renewal date falling before the meeting on voting rights in the SPL is very unfortunate. It would perhaps show the club understands the strength of feeling if the deadline were delayed until after this meeting when I like many hope that a fairer voting arrangement can be established. Alternatively if things remain the way they are and / or a liquidated club is not appropriately penalised many will walk away from the game altogether, with myself likely to be among them

Well said. I also responded to the mailing along the same lines yet sadly there is no comment from Hibs about any of the things that concern Hibs fans - they just expect you to stump up as usual

[JeMeSouviens]

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What I'm getting at is that it's pointless giving our board a hard time for not doing anything about the huns, as I've stated it does not matter who we shake a stick at they will be here for the long run so what's the point in this?

Says who? The current Rangers is a dead club walking. Assuming somebody digs up the corpse before it goes cold and tries to present it for direct SPL entry, it only takes 2 clubs to block them. What's going to make clubs vote against NewHuns in the SPL? Their supporters being so pissed off that they lose more money by allowing it than they would by blocking it. This is easily achievable imo.

The media clamour that says NewHun entry is inevitable are the same empty voices that said they would never go into administration and that liquidation was unthinkable.

It will only happen if we sit on our hands and allow it to happen!

[bawheid]

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Surely you know the answer?

Rangers (and Celtic) will always continue to dictate what is and what isn't, any communications regarding these two will be binned no matter who you email or write to.

I want us as Hibernian fans to lobby the board on what's good for us, not other teams! why waste your time moaning about the old firm?, pointless in my book.

You're quite spectacularly missing the point.

[kennyh]

[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;3167243]Says who? The current Rangers is a dead club walking. Assuming somebody digs up the corpse before it goes cold and tries to present it for direct SPL entry, it only takes 2 clubs to block them. What's going to make clubs vote against NewHuns in the SPL? Their supporters being so pissed off that they lose more money by allowing it than they would by blocking it. This is easily achievable imo.


As I understand its not as simple as two clubs blocking entry of 1690RFC from the SPL, its a comittee decision of which there are 5 or 6 members, a few chairmen and Neil Doncaster. I cant recall who they all are but CFC and Neil D will vote them back in, the DUFC chairman is involved and he may go against entry and I cant recall who the other 2 or 3 are that will decide. To me they will be voted in then its up to all non OF fans to decide how best to protest.

[JeMeSouviens]

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As I understand its not as simple as two clubs blocking entry of 1690RFC from the SPL, its a comittee decision of which there are 5 or 6 members, a few chairmen and Neil Doncaster. I cant recall who they all are but CFC and Neil D will vote them back in, the DUFC chairman is involved and he may go against entry and I cant recall who the other 2 or 3 are that will decide. To me they will be voted in then its up to all non OF fans to decide how best to protest.

The committee you refer to is the SPL board, currently made up of Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief exec) and Ralph Topping (SPL chairman) plus club reps from Celtic, St Johnstone, Motherwell and United. The spin that has been put out is that the decision is up to them. In fact, if you read the SPL's articles of association, the board merely carries out the wishes of the SPL in general meeting.

SPL articles of association - clause 14:

that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such other person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.

A Qualified Resolution has to receive 11/12 votes, hence 2 clubs together can block the transfer of the liquidised Huns' SPL share.

[Northern Hibby]

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It will only happen if we sit on our hands and allow it to happen!

Dad things happen when good people do nothing!

[JeMeSouviens]

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Dad things happen when good people do nothing!

... isn't that when they don't take precautions?

[Northern Hibby]

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... isn't that when they don't take precautions?

bad things happen when good people wear nothing

different quote

[Sandy]

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FFS It doesn't look that way to me!

What I'm getting at is that it's pointless giving our board a hard time for not doing anything about the huns, as I've stated it does not matter who we shake a stick at they will be here for the long run so what's the point in this?, nothing wrong with venting your displeasure at it but I would have thought we would be better lobbying the board on OUR needs not either of the OF...

Lordy!

You really have missed the OP's point on this. We need to get this ridiculous 10 - 2 voting system changed for a start, with the Huns out of the way it would be a good way forward.

[Jones28]

Well said

It's not as though the SPL will listen to the fans so the only way we can lobby against Rangers and the voting system is to go through our clubs - applying to all SPL supporters

[kennyh]

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The committee you refer to is the SPL board, currently made up of Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief exec) and Ralph Topping (SPL chairman) plus club reps from Celtic, St Johnstone, Motherwell and United. The spin that has been put out is that the decision is up to them. In fact, if you read the SPL's articles of association, the board merely carries out the wishes of the SPL in general meeting.

SPL articles of association - clause 14:



A Qualified Resolution has to receive 11/12 votes, hence 2 clubs together can block the transfer of the liquidised Huns' SPL share.

Thanks for that ~ this certainly makes more sense so Vlad and Rod could possibly work together.

[down-the-slope]

No response from board / Mr Russel as yet.

surely they can confirm that it was not just rhetoric when RP was on the TV debate....and that he / the club will vote for 'sporting integrity' via a fairer voting system.

While I realise there is every likelyhood other clubs will not want to upset the 'bullies' and vote otherwise when the crunch comes - we I would hope will stick to some principal

in response to some other comments..

Yes i know that in principal 'a liquidated club can't be punished' - but in reality we all know it would be just the same out fit with a new name above the door and in this case punishment would be not re-entering the SPL unless sanctions were applied - or even refused entry.

(in reality they will remain in some form so its imperitive we get the voting sorted why Gers are a wounded animal - this way we will have a voice in the future change that is so needed)


To those saying nothing can be done / don't care about Gers / only interested in Hibs... missing the point big time...this IS all about Hibs (and other non-OF clubs) as we have to make our clubs understand we will not just turn up and pay to be the chourus line for the bigots when there is no fair level playing field.

[Speedway]

I think Hibs should adopt a zero tolerance policy now and just send out a single email on the subject of STs

Dear Ersewipe,

I'd say thank you for your email but I'd be lying. It constitutes (buy a dictionary) 10 minutes of my life I'm never gettng back.

The points you made in your email don't matter; here's what does - either buy a ST or **** off. I don't care which.

It's like this numbnuts, we run a football club and a business right? Our owner whilst minted wants us to be self-sufficient. (Look again, you'll find it under 'S')

This means that all the greenbacks that we can raise go into the club. Yeah some cash gets spent on us directors but by Griffin do we earn it. Mostly we take flak off informed knee jerkers like you and your remedial mates but at least we do 100%. You spend most of your work time on .net moaning about us. Nae wonder you're a lower income sort.

Now, read this carefully or get a grown up to help you. ST cash means we go after players. Nae ST cash means we dinnae. Got it. Wait, it gets better.

Nae **** worth his salt wants to come to this club, hell even the players who are here will play anywhere so long as its not Easter Road. Getting any clues yet Poirot?

So, if you want us to attract even less talent even later in the transfer window then dinnae renew, see if I care. It'll be your fault though, when we have a muslims transfer window.

Try pinning it on us and ye can suck ma chebs.

Now give us yer ******** money and **** off.

Mary Hen
Communications Director

[Mikey]

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I think Hibs should adopt a zero tolerance policy now and just send out a single email on the subject of STs

Dear Ersewipe,

I'd say thank you for your email but I'd be lying. It constitutes (buy a dictionary) 10 minutes of my life I'm never gettng back.

The points you made in your email don't matter; here's what does - either buy a ST or **** off. I don't care which.

It's like this numbnuts, we run a football club and a business right? Our owner whilst minted wants us to be self-sufficient. (Look again, you'll find it under 'S')

This means that all the greenbacks that we can raise go into the club. Yeah some cash gets spent on us directors but by Griffin do we earn it. Mostly we take flak off informed knee jerkers like you and your remedial mates but at least we do 100%. You spend most of your work time on .net moaning about us. Nae wonder you're a lower income sort.

Now, read this carefully or get a grown up to help you. ST cash means we go after players. Nae ST cash means we dinnae. Got it. Wait, it gets better.

Nae **** worth his salt wants to come to this club, hell even the players who are here will play anywhere so long as its not Easter Road. Getting any clues yet Poirot?

So, if you want us to attract even less talent even later in the transfer window then dinnae renew, see if I care. It'll be your fault though, when we have a muslims transfer window.

Try pinning it on us and ye can suck ma chebs.

Now give us yer ******** money and **** off.

Mary Hen
Communications Director

[Baldy Foghorn]

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I think Hibs should adopt a zero tolerance policy now and just send out a single email on the subject of STs

Dear Ersewipe,

I'd say thank you for your email but I'd be lying. It constitutes (buy a dictionary) 10 minutes of my life I'm never gettng back.

The points you made in your email don't matter; here's what does - either buy a ST or **** off. I don't care which.

It's like this numbnuts, we run a football club and a business right? Our owner whilst minted wants us to be self-sufficient. (Look again, you'll find it under 'S')

This means that all the greenbacks that we can raise go into the club. Yeah some cash gets spent on us directors but by Griffin do we earn it. Mostly we take flak off informed knee jerkers like you and your remedial mates but at least we do 100%. You spend most of your work time on .net moaning about us. Nae wonder you're a lower income sort.

Now, read this carefully or get a grown up to help you. ST cash means we go after players. Nae ST cash means we dinnae. Got it. Wait, it gets better.

Nae **** worth his salt wants to come to this club, hell even the players who are here will play anywhere so long as its not Easter Road. Getting any clues yet Poirot?

So, if you want us to attract even less talent even later in the transfer window then dinnae renew, see if I care. It'll be your fault though, when we have a muslims transfer window.

Try pinning it on us and ye can suck ma chebs.

Now give us yer ******** money and **** off.

Mary Hen
Communications Director

It is what they say in a round about way anyway