Our Problem with Hearts

[Wellbankhibby]

I have followed Hibs for 50 years through good and bad. There is no doubt that the Yams are our bogie team. This is not a new thing even when we had the famous five, Lawrie Reilly in his book stated that in his day we often played them off the park only to be hit by the usual sucker punch. As far as im concerned this has continued take yesterday, again an injury time goal to secure the game for them. Even going back to that infamous game when we were 4-2 ahead in injury time and they somehow grab two goals to steal a draw. The truth is that half our team are beaten before they even kick off where as they obviously feel that they will win the game. Over the years we have had better teams than them and we often play much better football these are facts what we lack is a belief to win the game, our mentality is very poor. We are also far too soft and there is a real lack of fight. if we are to get any place we have to start competing and getting stuck in. I believe that on our day we can do this against any team in the league apart from the yams. Unfortunately we are rebulding just now and we are not playing well and this has been ongoing for a good few seasons now. I can only hope that we start to play good football again and dig in as we still have plenty to play for. You never know we could go on to win the elusive scottish cup something the famous five or turnbulls tornadoes couldnt do and I still think with a positive attitude we will survive this seasons and be stronger next year in the SPL. I am always down when we are beaten by hearts but survival and the chance of the scottish cup at ER will do for me.

[dmc1875]

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I have followed Hibs for 50 years through good and bad. There is no doubt that the Yams are our bogie team. This is not a new thing even when we had the famous five, Lawrie Reilly in his book stated that in his day we often played them off the park only to be hit by the usual sucker punch. As far as im concerned this has continued take yesterday, again an injury time goal to secure the game for them. Even going back to that infamous game when we were 4-2 ahead in injury time and they somehow grab two goals to steal a draw. The truth is that half our team are beaten before they even kick off where as they obviously feel that they will win the game. Over the years we have had better teams than them and we often play much better football these are facts what we lack is a belief to win the game, our mentality is very poor. We are also far too soft and there is a real lack of fight. if we are to get any place we have to start competing and getting stuck in. I believe that on our day we can do this against any team in the league apart from the yams. Unfortunately we are rebulding just now and we are not playing well and this has been ongoing for a good few seasons now. I can only hope that we start to play good football again and dig in as we still have plenty to play for. You never know we could go on to win the elusive scottish cup something the famous five or turnbulls tornadoes couldnt do and I still think with a positive attitude we will survive this seasons and be stronger next year in the SPL. I am always down when we are beaten by hearts but survival and the chance of the scottish cup at ER will do for me.

Its all mental when it comes to Hearts. Its something that has been a problem with every hibs team I've watched apart from maybe 00/01 and Mixu's season.

They have an arrogance that we don't have, from staff, players, fans right through the club. We on the other hand have the exact opposite. Even when we are favourites you know that they have the ability to sucker punch us as they have done time and time again.

Remember the cup QF? We played them off the pitch with over 70% possession if I recall... yet only won 1-0 and it was nervy for the last ten minutes.

Guaranteed if that was Hearts rather than us it would have been a much more comfortable win.

I dont know how we change our mentality but we need to think of something!

[blackpoolhibs]

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I have followed Hibs for 50 years through good and bad. There is no doubt that the Yams are our bogie team. This is not a new thing even when we had the famous five, Lawrie Reilly in his book stated that in his day we often played them off the park only to be hit by the usual sucker punch. As far as im concerned this has continued take yesterday, again an injury time goal to secure the game for them. Even going back to that infamous game when we were 4-2 ahead in injury time and they somehow grab two goals to steal a draw. The truth is that half our team are beaten before they even kick off where as they obviously feel that they will win the game. Over the years we have had better teams than them and we often play much better football these are facts what we lack is a belief to win the game, our mentality is very poor. We are also far too soft and there is a real lack of fight. if we are to get any place we have to start competing and getting stuck in. I believe that on our day we can do this against any team in the league apart from the yams. Unfortunately we are rebulding just now and we are not playing well and this has been ongoing for a good few seasons now. I can only hope that we start to play good football again and dig in as we still have plenty to play for. You never know we could go on to win the elusive scottish cup something the famous five or turnbulls tornadoes couldnt do and I still think with a positive attitude we will survive this seasons and be stronger next year in the SPL. I am always down when we are beaten by hearts but survival and the chance of the scottish cup at ER will do for me.

That is true, most clubs have a bogey team or ground, we have both. Hearts are our bogey team and easter road is our bogey ground.

[frazeHFC]

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That is true, most clubs have a bogey team or ground, we have both. Hearts are our bogey team and easter road is our bogey ground.

Having a bogey team is annoying, but being our rivals is gutting. Having a bogey ground is annoying, but being the one we play half our matches is just horrific.

Only Hibs eh!

[matty_f]

I think the derby stats show that the derby means infinitely more to them than it does to us.

I hope Fenlon's got a plan to sort that out.

[3pm]

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I think the derby stats show that the derby means infinitely more to them than it does to us.

I hope Fenlon's got a plan to sort that out.

Or it may be they have spent more money and are just more effective?

[Onion]

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Or it may be they have spent more money and are just more effective?

We often claim that money difference is the issue but i don't believe that. It is purely mental. How often over the years have the Yams had numerous injuries, players out, weakened sides and yet they've still managed to turn us over. How often has Hibs gone into matches v the Yams as the better side, yet still get beat ?

The Yams could be completely bankrupt, playing in the 2nd div, and I'd put money on them beating any Hibs side. It is a mental thing.

They say form goes out the window in Derbies, and they are right. Irrespective of form, the Yams invariably win. Lets hope we don't get them in the Cup Final.

[matty_f]

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Or it may be they have spent more money and are just more effective?

Yeah, it could be that, however football's full of teams who punch above their weight against their rivals or other teams. Celtc spend more money and are more effective than Killie, yet Killie have a trophy and Celtc have runner up medals.

Difference was Killie were bang up for that game from first whistle to last. We weren't.

[matty_f]

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Ditto! But I'm starting to wonder about the alleged feisty aggression that Fenlon has.When you marry it up to Brown's knowledge of Hearts and the Scottish game, That performance yesterday was pretty hard to justify

I was expecting much more from Hibs, to be honest. To have comments about the team not turning up for the first half is just mind-boggling.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I was expecting much more from Hibs, to be honest. To have comments about the team not turning up for the first half is just mind-boggling.

Apparently Stack has apologised for the teams attitude in yesterdays 1st half ? Virtually another new team and we still have attitude problems.

[essexhibee]

It's all mental. You looked at ESPN prior to the game in the hearts dressing room and it was all laughy jokey....they had no fear. Rather go out to the sheep than get them in the cup final. Defeatist view yes it is because quite frankly they would beat us almost certainly.

Our record against them is woeful and even more so recently. No win in three years is abysmal.

[Hibrandenburg]

This is a phenomena that I can't share. When I left Scotland we fully expected to give them a doing every time we played. If we got a draw I was gutted. We need to man up and put this hoodoo to bed. Kick the **** out of them when we play them and show them who's the daddy. Get 11 gorillas in the team for derby day, I'm sure Rod would even stretch the budget to a few sacks of bananas and yes I have been drinking.

[3pm]

It can't all be mental. How many different players have all played in the last 3 years? Why would, for example, Tom Soares **** himself at the thought of playing at the PBS?

[Emerald]

Hearts teams always close down quickly and hunt in packs, they have done this as long as I can remember. They put as completely off our stride and bully us all over the park. We then make mistakes which are punished. They do this to every team at tyncastle but the intensity of a derby and the need for them to win makes them work that much harder against us than say St Mirren. Until we learn to play them at their own game, get stuck in and hunt in packs, we will always be hoping things will happen rather than making things happen. Billy Brown for one must know their tried and trusted tactics you would think.

[Kato]

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Ditto! But I'm starting to wonder about the alleged feisty aggression that Fenlon has.When you marry it up to Brown's knowledge of Hearts and the Scottish game, That performance yesterday was pretty hard to justify

No matter what Brown knows or whatever aggression Fenlon would like to bring we had 6 players who have never played in that fixture before and the players who had sh*t themselves time and again. Their team is full of players who have been over the course before and who know exactly how far they can push their "aggression".

Fact is we need to change the whole outlook in these games. Our board never say anything other than ask for money, our players look scared before a ball is kicked (new signings excepted as I still think they can learn from what happened yesterday). I reckon Fenlon realises the importance of winning derbies (gets the fans on board and behind the team for other games, creates a "feel good" platform to work from) but I do not think the board does. If they want the team to start winning these games they need to try and gain every edge they can. Saying that the Gorgoyles may well be weakened next season anyway and we could find things being on more of an even keel.

Something needs to give anyway, I don't think any board member other the Tache realises what it feels like going into work to face the toothless cackling twats after each and every derby. I honestly do not think they care.

[Hibercelona]

Our problem is focusing on "playing them off the park". While they focus on simply scoring goals and winning the game.

This means they're willing to win at ANY costs.

Passing the ball around neatly and doing a few fancy flicks is totally pointless if you can't do the basics of defending and scoring.

Our problem against Hearts is blatantly obvious, yet we approach these games in the exact same fashion every single time. Hearts never need to change their tactics against us, because they know they already have us beaten.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Our problrm with Hearts is that we let them. Let's get a bit more indignation at this.

[The Green Goblin]

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Celtc spend more money and are more effective than Killie, yet Killie have a trophy and Celtc have runner up medals. .

Scott Brown doesn't... :-)

[hibeesjoe]

We could get the Man City team on loan and my money would still be on Hearts too get a result. The thing is though they are absolutely gash and every other club in the league gets results against them at some point in the season.

[Jim44]

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We could get the Man City team on loan and my money would still be on Hearts too get a result. The thing is though they are absolutely gash and every other club in the league gets results against them at some point in the season.

If they are gash where does that put our losers? I don't subscribe to the 'bogey team' theory. They are, more often than not, sharper, hungrier, better prepared,and vastly more confident than us. The sickening and astonishing thing is that they are able to consistently maintain superiority over us in spite of the perceived shambles that exists in Gorgie. There again, what we see as a complete circus, might be organised chaos and, who knows, Vlad might have method to his madness. If I were a neutral, looking at the Edinburgh Derby situation, I would expect them to win 9 out of 10 matches.

[Hibs90]

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Its all mental when it comes to Hearts. Its something that has been a problem with every hibs team I've watched apart from maybe 00/01 and Mixu's season.

They have an arrogance that we don't have, from staff, players, fans right through the club. We on the other hand have the exact opposite. Even when we are favourites you know that they have the ability to sucker punch us as they have done time and time again.

Remember the cup QF? We played them off the pitch with over 70% possession if I recall... yet only won 1-0 and it was nervy for the last ten minutes.

Guaranteed if that was Hearts rather than us it would have been a much more comfortable win.

I dont know how we change our mentality but we need to think of something!

81%

[Alan62]

The interesting thing here is that although we want to win derbies, we don't really want to watch the kind of team that does well in derbies. The game on Sunday was typical of a derby. Ridiculous pace, ball in the air all the time, fouls all over the pitch. That's the kind of game that suits players who are big and physically strong rather than players with a bit of skill. Even though we've been extremely poor this season, we will continue to try to recruit players that at least try to play a good passing game. Those aren't the kind of players who win very often when the game turns into a battle.

The good news in all of this is that there will be a reduction in quality at Hearts next season. They fielded a few strong lads on Sunday who made a big difference - particularly Webster and Beattie, even Black who may not be much in stature but has a high degree of aggression to go with his undoubted skill. Can't really see Webster and Beattie being there next season - along with a few others.

Having said all of that, it's imperative that Pat Fenlon continues to improve our squad - and attempt to overcome our physical shortcomings by improving the tactics and the mental attitude.

[3pm]

An oberservation from a Jambo I work with.

If the performance was as bad as suggested, why were the players cheered off for their efforts after being gubbed 2-0? Why did Leigh Griffiths (?) hand his shirt to the crowd? Why did Fenlon come over to applaud one and all?

The suggestion was that had the reversed happened then there is no way that this show of affection would have been displayed.

I am not fishing by any matter of means but maybe the mental side isn't just down to the players? Maybe it's the fans that are too accepting? Maybe we are all just bored now?

[Wellbankhibby]

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If they are gash where does that put our losers? I don't subscribe to the 'bogey team' theory. They are, more often than not, sharper, hungrier, better prepared,and vastly more confident than us. The sickening and astonishing thing is that they are able to consistently maintain superiority over us in spite of the perceived shambles that exists in Gorgie. There again, what we see as a complete circus, might be organised chaos and, who knows, Vlad might have method to his madness. If I were a neutral, looking at the Edinburgh Derby situation, I would expect them to win 9 out of 10 matches.

I think they are gash and you are right we are losers, I would agree with much that you say they do seem hungrier and more determined. My question would be why do the authorities let them cheat throughout the season, they are no diffrent to Rangers with all their financial problems. How can they sign Beattie when they cant even pay wages, Its a total Disgrace they always come out smelling of roses as rangers do when the truth is they smell and play like the S**** that helps grow the roses.

[JimBHibees]

I think that generally we are just not as good as them at present hopefully PF can bring about the necessary improvements in the close season assuming we stay up. Personally thought their first goal was very decent both in terms of Black's pass and the way Beattie controlled and scored. We were short on Sunday that is for sure especially IMO in midfield however for a good part of the second half we looked like we might nick an equaliser. The breakaway goal flattered them a bit.

Guys like Soares assuming he stays fit will get get better with games and we missed Ozzy's ability and Sproule's drive out wide. I think we will do ok against a decent Utd side on Saturday

[Seveno]

If we were as delusional as their fans then the confidence would be transmitted to the team. Instead, Hibs fans go into these matches terrified that we are going to lose and the players endout a bag of self-defeated nerves.

[21.05.2016]

We don't have the arrogance they have, they go into every derby confident of beating us, us on the other hand go into derbys a lot more timid. They bully us on the park and get stuck into us, something a lot of our players are feared to do back to them. I've seen us countless times go 1 nil up against them and they have fought back to beat us, we NEVER do that to them, especially at tynecastle because the belief dies and the heads go down which usually results in them going on to score more. As mentioned above, the derby attitude at this club has to change and it has to be drilled into our players heads that this is a big game and one we despretly want to win and not just now and again but on a regular basis.

Our time will come though, Romanov is crippling that shambles of a club bit by bit. Our future is a hell of a lot brighter than theirs!

[Andy74]

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I think that generally we are just not as good as them at present hopefully PF can bring about the necessary improvements in the close season assuming we stay up. Personally thought their first goal was very decent both in terms of Black's pass and the way Beattie controlled and scored. We were short on Sunday that is for sure especially IMO in midfield however for a good part of the second half we looked like we might nick an equaliser. The breakaway goal flattered them a bit.

Guys like Soares assuming he stays fit will get get better with games and we missed Ozzy's ability and Sproule's drive out wide. I think we will do ok against a decent Utd side on Saturday

I think that's right. We've got a team thrown together in January against one who have been together a reasonable time in the main and who have been assembled with about 3 to 4 times the wage bill that we have.

We invariably seem to go into these games missing players or just having players come back in when they haven't played much.

Hearts do as well but then they can bring people in who are also better players than we can call in from our fringe players.

I think as a club they do have a bit of a different mind set though but that's mainly just now backed up by some recent success due to thei overspending and made worse by our very bad form generally.

We wouldn't expect to wander in to Tannadice right now and do any better than we do at Tynecastle. Form doesn't really go out the window, the better team tends to do better.

Someone looked at the stats a wee while ago in terms of league position and derby outcome.

What happended to Hearts will to win and our ingrained weakness when McLeish was manager and Sauzee and Latapy were around? Better players, better results.

The Beattie thing shows we will still be waiting a wee while for the scales to come back into line but I'm pretty sure that our time will come.

[BT58]

Theres a few jambos on my shift,, some who are actually ok
However there are the usual clowns with the 22 in a row T- shirts at the ready
What the majority of them were saying was that they had read in the press what mcpake/ PF. Had been saying in the press all last week,, and that would just have got locke and the players wound up
Dont know the answer,, maybe them going bust would help!!!!
Bt

[JimBHibees]

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I think that's right. We've got a team thrown together in January against one who have been together a reasonable time in the main and who have been assembled with about 3 to 4 times the wage bill that we have.

We invariably seem to go into these games missing players or just having players come back in when they haven't played much.

Hearts do as well but then they can bring people in who are also better players than we can call in from our fringe players.

I think as a club they do have a bit of a different mind set though but that's mainly just now backed up by some recent success due to thei overspending and made worse by our very bad form generally.

We wouldn't expect to wander in to Tannadice right now and do any better than we do at Tynecastle. Form doesn't really go out the window, the better team tends to do better.

Someone looked at the stats a wee while ago in terms of league position and derby outcome.

What happended to Hearts will to win and our ingrained weakness when McLeish was manager and Sauzee and Latapy were around? Better players, better results.

The Beattie thing shows we will still be waiting a wee while for the scales to come back into line but I'm pretty sure that our time will come.

Agree completely back then we had the better players now in guys like Webster, Black, Beattie they do. In saying that it would hardly have been a great surprise if we nicked a goal in the second half. It was a poor game decided by a decent goal by them. Important we dont overreact and think everything is awful as IMO it isnt and we are a better them now than 8 weeks ago. We have a reasonable run of 3 games coming up then the semi-final it would be good if we can avoid injury and stupid suspensions and allow the team to go on a run of regular selection and a few points.