Alexander Redundant

[happiehibbie]

If Neil Alexander gets made redundant today i think Hibs should snap him up

Forget we can not afford him ETC the guy is out a job and we should offer him one

[PeterboroHibee]

We cant really forget about not affording him, the guy is on ridiculous wages, especially for a reserve SPL keeper. I agree that he would be an excellent signing, and he does need to get playing first team football again, but I imagine he will have quite a lot of offers if he gets released.

[bingo70]

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If Neil Alexander gets made redundant today i think Hibs should snap him up

Forget we can not afford him ETC the guy is out a job and we should offer him one

He's being released outwith the transfer window so i'm not sure we can sign him even if we wanted to, although IIRC from the Gretna situation if we appealed to UEFA the players may be allowed to join.

Even if we can though i'm not sure we can justify a third keeper on the books between now and the end of the season, IMO we're strong enough to stay up without him so for the wages he's likely to want i'm not sure it'd be worthwhile, would be delighted if we were to sign him for next season though.

[Thecat23]

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He's being released outwith the transfer window so i'm not sure we can sign him even if we wanted to, although IIRC from the Gretna situation if we appealed to UEFA the players may be allowed to join.

Even if we can though i'm not sure we can justify a third keeper on the books between now and the end of the season, IMO we're strong enough to stay up without him so for the wages he's likely to want i'm not sure it'd be worthwhile, would be delighted if we were to sign him for next season though.

If a player is freed from his contract during a season then he becomes a free agent, and therefore free to sign for any club out with the transfer window.

[bingo70]

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If a player is freed from his contract during a season then he becomes a free agent, and therefore free to sign for any club out with the transfer window.

Thats not the case though, they need to be a free agent at the start of the window opening, thats why you normally get a raft of players getting freed from their contracts on the last day of the window

[Scouse Hibee]

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Thats not the case though, they need to be a free agent at the start of the window opening, thats why you normally get a raft of players getting freed from their contracts on the last day of the window

So it seems, I never realised that!


Players who are out of contract and do not have a club, can be signed outside of the transfer window if they were unattached free agents when the previous window closed.

[bingo70]

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Players who are out of contract and do not have a club, can be signed outside of the transfer window if they were unattached free agents when the previous window closed.

Aye, thats what i said! (or tried to)

Alexander had a club when the previous window closed therefore he cannae be signed now according to transfer window rules, whether UEFA are flexible with this if a player is freed because a club goes into administration is a bit unclear i think.

[greenlex]

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Aye, thats what i said! (or tried to)

Alexander had a club when the previous window closed therefore he cannae be signed now according to transfer window rules, whether UEFA are flexible with this if a player is freed because a club goes into administration is a bit unclear i think.

You would think they would have to be flexible. Players out of a job through no fault of here own not able to find work? Absolute nonsense if the exception is not made.

[El Gubbz]

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Aye, thats what i said! (or tried to)

Alexander had a club when the previous window closed therefore he cannae be signed now according to transfer window rules, whether UEFA are flexible with this if a player is freed because a club goes into administration is a bit unclear i think.

That rule is brutal. If a player is released on the first of february then he is expected to provide for his family until the next window opens without a job? Not every player is on ridiculous wages and can afford it. Imagine getting sacked and had to wait 4/5 months with no income until you can even try and get a job again

[happiehibbie]

I think that football has just realised its on it ASS the days of huge wages are over people are losing jobs and businesses are closing everyday Footballers demands are reducing the dayd of the Agents and them bleeding our teams are over. (to many footbalers not enough teams)

I belive we are desprate for a goalie and think he can fill the gap and I sure BIG ROD can put a deal together to get him.

As contract goes I belive that any players being released will be able to get a new club as the are free from contracts

[bingo70]

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You would think they would have to be flexible. Players out of a job through no fault of here own not able to find work? Absolute nonsense if the exception is not made.

I'm trying to see it from UEFA's point of view and think of the justification for not letting them sign for another club but i'm struggling, maybe unfair on the players who were free agents at the start of the window who still don't have clubs?

I'm struggling a bit though, thinking about it though did any Gretna players join other clubs? thinking Chris Innes maybe did?

[Hibbyradge]

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Thats not the case though, they need to be a free agent at the start of the window opening, thats why you normally get a raft of players getting freed from their contracts on the last day of the window

So players who are made redundant have to get jobs outwith football if they want to continue to eat and pay their mortgage until the next transfer window??

That can't be the case. In fact, I expect that would be illegal.

[Beefster]

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That rule is brutal. If a player is released on the first of february then he is expected to provide for his family until the next window opens without a job? Not every player is on ridiculous wages and can afford it. Imagine getting sacked and had to wait 4/5 months with no income until you can even try and get a job again

In the vast majority of cases, players have contracts until one of the windows. So, if they are released outside a window, either they have agreed a settlement with the club (and so should have agreed enough to see them through), they've been sacked for something that they have done (so tough titties) or they have been made redundant (the only one completely outside their control). Only redundancy really has any need for the player to be allowed to sign for another club outside a window.

[bingo70]

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I think that football has just realised its on it ASS the days of huge wages are over people are losing jobs and businesses are closing everyday Footballers demands are reducing the dayd of the Agents and them bleeding our teams are over. (to many footbalers not enough teams)

I belive we are desprate for a goalie and think he can fill the gap and I sure BIG ROD can put a deal together to get him.

As contract goes I belive that any players being released will be able to get a new club as the are free from contracts

Well ye believe wrong! if it's outside the transfer window they definately can't as i say unless UEFA bend the rules due to the club going into administration.

If players could just be freed outwith the transfer window and join other clubs then say celtic wanted to buy a hibs player and we agreed a fee we could just free the player who could then join celtic and they'd find a way of getting the money to us.

[Shaggy]

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So players who are made redundant have to get jobs outwith football if they want to continue to eat and pay their mortgage until the next transfer window??

That can't be the case. In fact, I expect that would be illegal.

Completely agree, that has to be against free employment laws,

I always thought Alexander was top class, he is better than stack,
no doubt in my mind

[bingo70]

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So players who are made redundant have to get jobs outwith football if they want to continue to eat and pay their mortgage until the next transfer window??

That can't be the case. In fact, I expect that would be illegal.

It won't be illegal as technically speaking there wont be anything to stop another club employing them, they just won't be allowed to register them so therefore can't play them which obviously means no club is going to employ them.

No offence intended to yourself but i'm surprised about the confusion this is causing, it's the same every transfer window.

[Hibbyradge]

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It won't be illegal as technically speaking there wont be anything to stop another club employing them, they just won't be allowed to register them so therefore can't play them which obviously means no club is going to employ them.

No offence intended to yourself but i'm surprised about the confusion this is causing, it's the same every transfer window.

It's not the same. Players aren't made redundant every transfer window.

No offence to yourself, but I'm surprised how literal you're being.

[Hibbyradge]

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It won't be illegal as technically speaking there wont be anything to stop another club employing them, they just won't be allowed to register them so therefore can't play them which obviously means no club is going to employ them.

Seriously?

[bingo70]

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Seriously?

Aye, a team could employ them they just couldn't play them so that's unlikely to happen as they'd just wait till the transfer window opens.

[bingo70]

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It's not the same. Players aren't made redundant every transfer window.

No offence to yourself, but I'm surprised how literal you're being.

Players are freed every transfer window, that's why they are otherwise they would just stay employed at the club until they found another club to join.

If rules were different for players being redundant then that'd just be a loophole the clubs and players would exploit and i've already said they may bend rules for individual cases but as the rules stand if Alexander is released today it's not as simple as him just signing for someone else.

[Hibbyradge]

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Aye, a team could employ them they just couldn't play them so that's unlikely to happen as they'd just wait till the transfer window opens.

Oh come on.

The illegality is that the rules would stop someone plying their trade.

[Captain Trips]

I would imagine any player they let go will still be able to move on and remain on roughly the same pay, the only players we may be in with a chance are ones whom have not played yet, there maybe a youth or two in there.

[Caversham Green]

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So players who are made redundant have to get jobs outwith football if they want to continue to eat and pay their mortgage until the next transfer window??

That can't be the case. In fact, I expect that would be illegal.

It's certainly a restriction of trade. Most clubs supplement their income by selling players and the transfer window arrangement effectively prevents them from doing so. It is arguable that Rangers could have avoided administration if they were able to sell (say) McGregor in February. It's also made worse by the fact that the window slams shut on different dates in different countries, so e.g. a Russian club in the latter stages of a Euro competition could bolster their squad while a Scottish one couldn't.

I'd like to see a legal challenge to the whole system.

[bingo70]

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Oh come on.

The illegality is that the rules would stop someone plying their trade.

Ah dinnae ken, i'm no an employment lawyer, i just know if a player is freed outwith the transfer window they can't sign for anyone else until the transfer window opens again and to my knowledge there's nothing in the rules to state the rules are any different if a player is freed due to the club being in administration.

[Keith_M]

Back to the point...


He's not going to sign for Hibs, as we already have two keepers and, as already said, I'd imagine he could get paid more elsewhere.

[Hibbyradge]

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Ah dinnae ken, i'm no an employment lawyer, i just know if a player is freed outwith the transfer window they can't sign for anyone else until the transfer window opens again

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and to my knowledge there's nothing in the rules to state the rules are any different if a player is freed due to the club being in administration.

I know it's not clear, but I think we'll find that they can, and will.

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Ah dinnae ken, i'm no an employment lawyer, i just know if a player is freed outwith the transfer window they can't sign for anyone else until the transfer window opens again and to my knowledge there's nothing in the rules to state the rules are any different if a player is freed due to the club being in administration.

Maybe you've just not found it yet.

FYI...

At Livingston in 2004, Lovell was among a number of players to take a wage cut, but that did not prevent redundancies being made. Since the administrator asked the squad to voluntarily reduce their wages, the players' contracts were effectively breached, and Marvin Andrews negotiated an early release from his deal to sign on a free transfer for Rangers. It is less clear what the affect on contracts would be if the players themselves instigate a wage cut.

Any individuals sacked are paid to the end of that working day. They are entitled to redundancy payments, but effectively become unsecured creditors, joining the rest of the people owed money by the club. When Dundee were in administration in 2010, the 10 released players were able to block the creditors' vote on the Company Voluntary Agreement required to exit administration, so the PFA Scotland negotiated future payments from the club in return for them voting in favour the CVA.

This is unlikely at Ibrox, though, since Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs would be the major creditor if the first tier tax tribunal delivers its verdict against Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts. Because the football creditors rule applies only in England – ensuring that football debts are paid first in the event of an administration – any players released by Rangers would face having to hope that they might receive some money later on, and in the meantime find a new club.

"On the basis that the contracts have been unilaterally terminated by the administrator, there is a powerful argument that they would be classified as free agents and therefore would be able to sign for another club outside of the transfer window," says Richard Cramer, a sports law expert. "My argument if I was representing the player would be that the termination of the contract would mean there is no transfer between clubs and therefore there is nothing to stop the player signing for another club."

From here http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source...w=1680&bih=935

[happiehibbie]

Just spoken to a man in the know

Players become free agents and are, free to find new clubs and play !!!

for the record Alexander is on 12k a week and 1k bonus if on the bench

[bingo70]

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[B]

I know it's not clear, but I think we'll find that they can, and will.



Maybe you've just not found it yet.

FYI...

At Livingston in 2004, Lovell was among a number of players to take a wage cut, but that did not prevent redundancies being made. Since the administrator asked the squad to voluntarily reduce their wages, the players' contracts were effectively breached, and Marvin Andrews negotiated an early release from his deal to sign on a free transfer for Rangers. It is less clear what the affect on contracts would be if the players themselves instigate a wage cut.

Any individuals sacked are paid to the end of that working day. They are entitled to redundancy payments, but effectively become unsecured creditors, joining the rest of the people owed money by the club. When Dundee were in administration in 2010, the 10 released players were able to block the creditors' vote on the Company Voluntary Agreement required to exit administration, so the PFA Scotland negotiated future payments from the club in return for them voting in favour the CVA.

This is unlikely at Ibrox, though, since Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs would be the major creditor if the first tier tax tribunal delivers its verdict against Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts. Because the football creditors rule applies only in England – ensuring that football debts are paid first in the event of an administration – any players released by Rangers would face having to hope that they might receive some money later on, and in the meantime find a new club.

"On the basis that the contracts have been unilaterally terminated by the administrator, there is a powerful argument that they would be classified as free agents and therefore would be able to sign for another club outside of the transfer window," says Richard Cramer, a sports law expert. "My argument if I was representing the player would be that the termination of the contract would mean there is no transfer between clubs and therefore there is nothing to stop the player signing for another club."

From here http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source...w=1680&bih=935

My interpretation of that is that as the rules stand a player can't join another club if released due to being redundant however the sports lawyer believes that's in breach of laws you stated earlier on which means if we wanted Alexander for example we would have to appeal to UEFA and possibly go through the courts although the case of Marvin Andrews (and possibly Chris Innes if i was right about him) would suggest the appeal would be upheld.

certainly not as simple as him just becoming a free agent and able to sign for another club straight away with no complications.

[brydekirk]

Goalkeeping coach till end off season !!!

[basehibby]

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Thats not the case though, they need to be a free agent at the start of the window opening, thats why you normally get a raft of players getting freed from their contracts on the last day of the window

Would have thought that rule would be against Alexander's human rights - ie his right to have a job and earn a living - therefore I suspect you've somehow misread it as it would be against the law in the EU for such a rule to exist.