Billy Brown

[Hibees07]

I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

[hibbymac]

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

So are you saying it was all Billy Brown's fault, or do you think Pat Fenlon maybe had a wee say in matters.

[JimBHibees]

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

I think you are right Billy must have been telling the players prior to the game not to pick up at corners or put pressure on the Celtc players.

[Hibees07]

What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

[MSK]

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What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

Fenlon has watched numerous celtic matches since & probably before he came to Scotland so he himself would know what is required when up against them, however dont let that stop you putting the boot into Brown ..

[Andy74]

Brown and Fenon can't do much about when people don't do their jobs well enough.

We are, however, improving at the back against teams that are actually in our own sort of league.

[Scouse Hibee]

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

So he's an ex jambo get over it!

[marinello59]

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

If Pat Fenlon wants Billy Brown beside him he will remain there, after all the buck stops with him. The reason Celtic had so much time on the ball is because they had better (and much more expensive) players in virtually every position who unfortunately for us are all performing near the top of their game.

[Hibees07]

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So he's an ex jambo get over it!

I don't care who Billy was with before, and I have absolutely nothing against the guy.

He is supposed to be Fenlon's aid, right hand man, the man with experience & knowledge, yet the tactics (which I presume were planned) were absolutely wrong for a high flying Celtic team, most supporters in the stands would have noticed that after 15 - 20 minutes. An experienced assistant like Billy must surely have know it was suicide. Was he not there at the 4-1 cup game?.

[Twa Cairpets]

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What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

Yes, because in other football leagues the concept of space is entirely different and alien to what we see in Scotland.

The second goal was down to superb movement from Stokes, moving sharply to the wide left the instant Celtic got the ball with a supporting midfielder pushing up the middle to draw defenders away.

It was indicative of the fact that we were, simply, beaten by a team who were just much better than we were, in both general terms and on the day in particular.

Celtic have taken five off St Mirren and Dundee Utd this season, as well as four off Hearts and Motherwell. Presumably all the coaches at those clubs have an insufficient knowledge of Scottish Football and should jack it as well?

[MSK]

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I don't care who Billy was with before, and I have absolutely nothing against the guy.

He is supposed to be Fenlon's aid, right hand man, the man with experience & knowledge, yet the tactics (which I presume were planned) were absolutely wrong for a high flying Celtic team, most supporters in the stands would have noticed that after 15 - 20 minutes. An experienced assistant like Billy must surely have know it was suicide. Was he not there at the 4-1 cup game?.

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

Nothing against Brown .....however you want rid ...

[iain nolan]

am sure the coaching team win ,lose or drew will be working together to inprove our league postion and you cant blame Billy Brown when we get beaten .

Brown was in for manages job but the board thought Fanlon was the better manager for the club.

Adams knew the scottish game and he never done anything with calderwood .

[StevieC]

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yet the tactics (which I presume were planned) were absolutely wrong for a high flying Celtic team

The tactics for the last 3 games seem to have been that of movement off the ball and trying to create space (especially in wide areas). It looked like this continued on Sunday and, for the first 20 minutes at least, I thought that we looked quite good coming forward.

I suppose that PF may have had to make the difficult decision of changing things entirely for the visit of Celtic or to try and continue with the same tactics and spend an extra week or so working on this with players that are still getting to know each others playing abilities.

It's all guess work, but I'm willing to give PF (and anyone he chooses to assist him) the benefit of the doubt.

[Cropley10]

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Celtic have taken five off St Mirren and Dundee Utd this season, as well as four off Hearts and Motherwell. Presumably all the coaches at those clubs have an insufficient knowledge of Scottish Football and should jack it as well?

Nail hit firmly on head.

[hibs0666]

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What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

The players were utter ******. Ulitimately there's nothing managers can do about players bottling it.

[jdships]

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What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

Wearing your managers hat I see
Remember you can only coach players until they go on the park after that is is down to what is " between their ears".
Always find it sad when people have a go at the easy touch manager/ass manager when it is fairly obvious that the players failed to deliver.
Is PF not being very much up front and doing exactly that ?.

We were beaten , on the day , by a far better footballing side . A side which has taken 4/5 off St Mirren/ Dundee Utd/ Hearts and M'well all teams much better than us .
Post mortems prove nothing except make you more annoyed than you possibly were on the day.

Let's just move on

[Twa Cairpets]

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The players were utter ******. Ulitimately there's nothing managers can do about players bottling it.

Actually, I dont think they were, and I dont think they did.

Celtic were just, unfortunately, very good.

[Hibees07]

[QUOTE=jdships;3122511]Wearing your managers hat I see



Absolutely JD!

[son of haggart]

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The tactics for the last 3 games seem to have been that of movement off the ball and trying to create space (especially in wide areas). It looked like this continued on Sunday and, for the first 20 minutes at least, I thought that we looked quite good coming forward.

I suppose that PF may have had to make the difficult decision of changing things entirely for the visit of Celtic or to try and continue with the same tactics and spend an extra week or so working on this with players that are still getting to know each others playing abilities.

It's all guess work, but I'm willing to give PF (and anyone he chooses to assist him) the benefit of the doubt.

I think that's a very perceptive comment and explains the risky open set up. I guess one problem is that it will have not done the confidence any good, especially in defence to have been exposed so often.

Motherwell will be a big test, especially given how well you were doing with the 'old team' first time out.

[hibiedude]

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I was under the impression that Pat Fenlon retained the services of Billy Brown for his knowledge on the Scottish game. So the question is was it Billy's inside knowledge that decided to leave the Celtic players unmarked and the Hibs players mark the wide open spaces.

I have just watched the re-run of the game on SKY and I cannot believe the amount of time the Celtic players had on the ball, it looked bad at the game but even worse on TV.

There is no way Billy Brown would have had his team playing like that when he was Jefferies sidekick at Hearts, Celtic wouldn't have got a yard of space.

He has contributed zero in my eye's considering the experience & knowledge he must have, the sooner we get rid the better.

We have been rank rotten for the past 3 seasons mate long before Billy came to Hibs. Or are you just talking about this game ?

[fatbloke]

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We have been rank rotten for the past 3 seasons mate long before Billy came to Hibs. Or are you just talking about this game ?

Just the 3 - I reckon almost 5 years actually.

[Speedway]

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I think you are right Billy must have been telling the players prior to the game not to pick up at corners or put pressure on the Celtc players.

Exactly. Pat and Billy had the players set up to close down all over the pitch before Liam O'Brien said, 'naw boys, the platics are harmless, let them roam'. Pat and Billy looked at each other nodded and then told the players to forget what they'd said, Liam was right. 'Now let's go and get shaaaaafffteeeeeeeed' said Pat as he rallied his troops before they entered the tunnel.

[J-C]

Don't think you can blame BB for 11 players all deciding to have a stinking game all at the same time but TBH I still think he's not had the same impact here as with Hearts, maybe JJ had a wee bit to do about that eh!

[Deek01]

I know exactly what you mean, I totally blame Mike Phelan for Man Uniteds defending during their gubbing to Man City Earlier in the season!

[Phil D. Rolls]

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What I am saying is, Billy Brown is the man with years & years of SPL experience and he is the one who knows most about all the SPL sides. In his role as assistant Paddy must be seeking his assistants input (as any manager would). Ultimately any tactical / formation errors are the responsibility of the manager, absolutely, and Paddy needs to take that on the chin.

Surely Fenlion, with his detailed knowledge of who's who at Easter Road, who is best placed to judge? After all, he'll carry the can.

[FitbaFolkKen]

If the Assistant Manager was anyone else no one would be interested. Realistically how do we measure Browns input and how do we measure how much is taken on board by Fenlon. It's impossible!

I think we are clutching at straws as to who to blame next, there is always someone at fault at ER.... good teams get beat, bad teams like us get beaten more often. Despite everyone trying to get the right result Celtic were just too good for us, sometimes you just need to put your hands up and accept it.

Pat clearly doesn't accept slackers so on that basis alone i'm quite happy to have BB as no 2 for all the difference it makes as Pat is clearly very much his own man.:pfgwa

[scoopyboy]

My take is BB was employed by Hibs to season end.

PF when he got the job was he had BB until season end and it was then up to him what happened.

At the end of his contract I think it will be over and out from BB.

[--------]

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If the Assistant Manager was anyone else no one would be interested. Realistically how do we measure Browns input and how do we measure how much is taken on board by Fenlon. It's impossible!

I think we are clutching at straws as to who to blame next, there is always someone at fault at ER.... good teams get beat, bad teams like us get beaten more often. Despite everyone trying to get the right result Celtic were just too good for us, sometimes you just need to put your hands up and accept it.

Pat clearly doesn't accept slackers so on that basis alone i'm quite happy to have BB as no 2 for all the difference it makes as Pat is clearly very much his own man.:pfgwa

[iain nolan]

100% right m8

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If the Assistant Manager was anyone else no one would be interested. Realistically how do we measure Browns input and how do we measure how much is taken on board by Fenlon. It's impossible!

I think we are clutching at straws as to who to blame next, there is always someone at fault at ER.... good teams get beat, bad teams like us get beaten more often. Despite everyone trying to get the right result Celtic were just too good for us, sometimes you just need to put your hands up and accept it.

Pat clearly doesn't accept slackers so on that basis alone i'm quite happy to have BB as no 2 for all the difference it makes as Pat is clearly very much his own man.:pfgwa

[Hibees07]

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We have been rank rotten for the past 3 seasons mate long before Billy came to Hibs. Or are you just talking about this game ?

I was specifically taking about about this game, but in his time at Easter Road he has hardly lived up to be the success many on here thought he would be and I for one don't know why he is still here.

I will say again that I have nothing against the guy or the fact he was a Jambo, I couldn't care less.

He was supposedly brought in to help CC and made zero or little difference, he applied for the job when CC was booted out and missed out to a guy who had absolutely Nil SPL experience & previously managed at 1st Division standard in Ireland (yes that can be disputed till the cows come home but that is my opinion). He has assisted Paddy for several months & there is still very little improvement.

Therefore the only reasons I can see for Billy still being at ER is Paddy uses his knowledge of the other SPL teams (which goes back to my original thread post) or Hibs cannot afford to punt him.