Was our safety put at risk last night.

[silverhibee]

As it says, were we Hibs fans put at risk last night, i seen the fire engines arrive at the ground fifteen minutes in to the game, if there was a fire in the away stand and if so why was the game not abandoned straight away, the match commander has now admitted that there was a fire and there was a possibility it may have reignited again and they took the decision to call off the game.

Hibs FC should be asking serious questions regarding last night, if the fire brigade were called that early in to the game to attend a fire and three fire engines turned up to the ground along with several police cars also, then it was quite clear that there was a major incident taking place in the away stand at Motherwell FC ground, the fire brigade must have dealt with the fire but were concerned that it may have started again, this is the worry for me that they knew this but still allowed the away fans to stay in the stand and allow the game to go ahead until half time, and even then a decision wasn't taking for about another 25 minutes to evacuate the ground.

Was this a disaster waiting to happen at Fir Park, i dont know who would be to blame for this madness that took place last night, firstly they announce over there sh***y tannoy system that the game had been abandoned and to evacuate the stadium but dont get the Hibs fans away from under the away stand as they decide to give out tickets where a fire may take place again, the Police should have moved us to a safe area before handing out tickets and made sure the fans safety came first, but no we had Hibs fans causing trouble, Police and stewards being heavy handed to people that dare ask what the f*** is going on here.

Not good enough in my eyes, so who is to blame here, Strathclyde Fire Brigade Strathclyde Police or Motherwell FC for taking so long to call of the game when it was clear that there was a serious risk of endagerment to life last night.

[BEEJ]

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The fire brigade must have dealt with the fire but were concerned that it may have started again, this is the worry for me that they knew this but still allowed the away fans to stay in the stand and allow the game to go ahead until half time, and even then a decision wasn't taking for about another 25 minutes to evacuate the ground.

I would guess that they took the view that having put out the first fire and with the fire crews still on site there was little danger of any recurrent fire getting seriously out of hand.

[BurghHibby]

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As it says, were we Hibs fans put at risk last night, i seen the fire engines arrive at the ground fifteen minutes in to the game, if there was a fire in the away stand and if so why was the game not abandoned straight away, the match commander has now admitted that there was a fire and there was a possibility it may have reignited again and they took the decision to call off the game.

Hibs FC should be asking serious questions regarding last night, if the fire brigade were called that early in to the game to attend a fire and three fire engines turned up to the ground along with several police cars also, then it was quite clear that there was a major incident taking place in the away stand at Motherwell FC ground, the fire brigade must have dealt with the fire but were concerned that it may have started again, this is the worry for me that they knew this but still allowed the away fans to stay in the stand and allow the game to go ahead until half time, and even then a decision wasn't taking for about another 25 minutes to evacuate the ground.

Was this a disaster waiting to happen at Fir Park, i dont know who would be to blame for this madness that took place last night, firstly they announce over there sh***y tannoy system that the game had been abandoned and to evacuate the stadium but dont get the Hibs fans away from under the away stand as they decide to give out tickets where a fire may take place again, the Police should have moved us to a safe area before handing out tickets and made sure the fans safety came first, but no we had Hibs fans causing trouble, Police and stewards being heavy handed to people that dare ask what the f*** is going on here.

Not good enough in my eyes, so who is to blame here, Strathclyde Fire Brigade Strathclyde Police or Motherwell FC for taking so long to call of the game when it was clear that there was a serious risk of endagerment to life last night.

Once the fire brigade have attended, they are then in charge and have final say on all safety matters, so I would say the blame lay with them.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Could the decision have also been with the police in having to deal with dispersal at an unknown time which may have disrupted their evenings plans ? Not like the first time this has happened to hibs fans. Even l&bs finest had had enough of the encroachment onto the pitch after the CIS cup victory and pulled the plug on the whole thing

[IWasThere2016]

The Polis called it off.

[down-the-slope]

i know little about actual chain of events (other than 2nd hand reports)

BUT refunds are due as i understand if a match fails to reach half time....is this something that could / did influence a clubs view of how long to leave making a desicion

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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The Polis called it off.

There you go then probably didn't fancy 1400 disgruntled hibees who'd have had longer time to get hacked off about the situation.

That said if it were me i would have been able to sleep well with the swift decision to abandon - and I'm assuming no one was hurt in the "evacuation" - so decision vindicated. If you want to watch football in an envoriment with a lax h&s approach try abroad

I still do think the muthers have some questions to answer
- maintenance schedules of key operational equipment (eg tannoy floodlights)
- the distribution of the tickets at the end
- emergency procedures review (if they were walked through thoroughly surely this situation and it's flaws in approach would have been spotted)

[Www1875hfc]

As i have stated in a previous thread,on speaking with an over zealous policeman outside the stadium,he quite abruptly told me,
"There is a fire in the away stand,and we have to evacuate the away end"
On looking back as you go up the hill,all you could see was the Motherwell staff looking out from the windows of the said stand?

Confused.com

[Alfred E Newman]

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I would guess that they took the view that having put out the first fire and with the fire crews still on site there was little danger of any recurrent fire getting seriously out of hand.

I would have thought there was little chance of a serious fire breaking out after the first minor fire and with the fire brigade in attentance. Comparisons with the disastrous Bradford fire in todays press were nonsense. The Valley Parade stand was a largely wooden structure with a bitumen coated wooden roof, the South stand at Fir park is mostly breeze block and steel. If there had been a serious fire the biggest risk to safely last night was the inaudable tannoy and a possible panic situation on the exit stairs due to lack of information.

[Arch Stanton]

I remember hearing/reading that the panic of an evacuation could be a bigger danger than the fire itself.

However, I would still like the decision making explained to me why there was no evacuation while the fire was in progress but when the fire was out and the fire brigade were in attendance the game was then abandoned.

Perhaps the decision not to evacuate was a perfectly reasonable one taken by a professional fire officer who was already on site before the fire engines got there, but I'd still like to know that a correct decision was made and that it wasn't a case of indecision - that would be worrying.

[BEEJ]

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I would have thought there was little chance of a serious fire breaking out after the first minor fire and with the fire brigade in attentance. Comparisons with the disastrous Bradford fire in todays press were nonsense. The Valley Parade stand was a largely wooden structure with a bitumen coated wooden roof, the South stand at Fir park is mostly breeze block and steel. If there had been a serious fire the biggest risk to safely last night was the inaudable tannoy and a possible panic situation on the exit stairs due to lack of information.

Agree with that.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Wonder if this means that fir park loses it's safety certificate (yes I'm guessing)

[Hibbyradge]

Nope.

Safety was not put at risk.

[WindyMiller]

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Agree with that.

Me too.

[Alfred E Newman]

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I remember hearing/reading that the panic of an evacuation could be a bigger danger than the fire itself.

However, I would still like the decision making explained to me why there was no evacuation while the fire was in progress but when the fire was out and the fire brigade were in attendance the game was then abandoned.

Perhaps the decision not to evacuate was a perfectly reasonable one taken by a professional fire officer who was already on site before the fire engines got there, but I'd still like to know that a correct decision was made and that it wasn't a case of indecision - that would be worrying.

Regardless of the seriousness of the fire there are many questions needing answered. Surely the risk to the safety of the crowd due to a further small fire with the fire brigade already in attendance was less than the original fire before the fire brigade arrived. If there was a risk to the safely at all the stand should have been evacuated immediately. Given the strength of the floodlights I would have thought that even after the faulty pylon was switched off the pitch looked pretty well lit and the game could have been completed. If they had started the second half on time we would have been well through the half by the time they eventually decided to switch off the light and abandon the game.

[WindyMiller]

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Wonder if this means that fir park loses it's safety certificate (yes I'm guessing)

This should lose a safety certificate;

[steakbake]

No, I don't think so. Perhaps we're being a bit to precious about all of this.

if there was a significant fire alert, I would say that the place would have been emptied pronto. I think there was a controllable situation and the event was left to go on for as long as they could postpone a definitive position.

Comparisons with Bradford are OTT.

Motherwell didn't cover themselves in glory but then neither did the actions of some Hibs fans. It was not the fault of the police and the security staff who were just doing their job.

[Alfred E Newman]

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This should lose a safety certificate;

Joking apart, you are probably right. I would include the Tannadice stand as well. They are both disasters waiting to happen.

[Arch Stanton]

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No, your safety was not at risk because they abandoned the match.
The police had asked for a guarantee that there would be no further fire if the game was to go ahead. That guarantee could not be given so the police called the game off in the interests of public safety.
No other decision could have been made.

Not convinced.Can you give a guarantee that there won't be a fire in you're home tonight?

If the police take a black and white view on these situations then the discovery of the initial fire would have required an immediate evacuation - no questions asked!

[Scouse Hibee]

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Absolutely the point, it couldn't be guaranteed which is why no other decision could have been reached.
Can't have the fire brigade sitting at a football match in case a fire starts again. common sense to abandon the game.
The whole situation will have been managed by dynamic risk assessment where you start asking questions and take appropriate action based on the answers.That started when the fire was discovered and ended when the game was called off

Yes just a pity that one of the control measures evaluated in doing that dynamic risk assessment would have been the use of the tannoy to effectively empty the stadium in a controlled manner!

[Alfred E Newman]

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Absolutely the point, it couldn't be guaranteed which is why no other decision could have been reached.
Can't have the fire brigade sitting at a football match in case a fire starts again. common sense to abandon the game.
The whole situation will have been managed by dynamic risk assessment where you start asking questions and take appropriate action based on the answers.That started when the fire was discovered and ended when the game was called off

Don`t see why evacuating 7000 people was better than having one fire engine sitting on stand by for three quarters of an hour.

[Arch Stanton]

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Absolutely the point, it couldn't be guaranteed which is why no other decision could have been reached.
Can't have the fire brigade sitting at a football match in case a fire starts again. common sense to abandon the game.
The whole situation will have been managed by dynamic risk assessment where you start asking questions and take appropriate action based on the answers.That started when the fire was discovered and ended when the game was called off

I'm sorry, but the situation has all the appearances of no decision being made until no one in authority could be seen to be making a bad decision.

Your argument says that the game, or any other game for that matter, should never have been scheduled - after all, anyone who knew there wouldn't be a fire last night was in actual fact wrong!

[Dalkeith]

the fact that the fire engines went to the main stand first then had to turn round and head to south stand should be investigated, that small mistake could have been costly if the fire was major.

[Arch Stanton]

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the fact that the fire engines went to the main stand first then had to turn round and head to south stand should be investigated, that small mistake could have had been costly if the fire was major.

Indeed - someone obviously phoned 999 and the fire engines followed their Sat Nav to Motherwell FC.

The notion that some "Risk Assessed" system kicks into place is baloney.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Maybe some are going a bit ott with this , my take is that it may not have taken much more for there to be a major incident , as people have said about the tannoy , you couldnt make head nor tale of it, hibs fans only started to leave when they seen the fir park main stand emptying , there was no instruction from the stewards/police in the away stand, and there was at least one exit cut off , if the fire had produced more smoke then panic/crushing may easily have ensued

[Arch Stanton]

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Because you choose not to believe it doesn't make it untrue.
The notion that public arenas can operate without risk assessment is baloney.

##

Whoever said that I don't believe Risk Assessments exist? I know full well they do! The concept of evaluating "impact vs likelihood" is well known to me.

However, the notion that some well-oiled, well rehearsed, and well disciplined regime kicked into place last night rather belies the utter shambles that transpired.

[Arch Stanton]

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Cheaper.

Plus they were 0-1 down!

[woody47]

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Maybe some are going a bit ott with this , my take is that it may not have taken much more for there to be a major incident , as people have said about the tannoy , you couldnt make head nor tale of it, hibs fans only started to leave when they seen the fir park main stand emptying , there was no instruction from the stewards/police in the away stand, and there was at least one exit cut off , if the fire had produced more smoke then panic/crushing may easily have ensued

Agree 100%. The fact was that EVERYONE around where I was had no idea what was happening. The tannoy announcement was a waste of time because no one could make out what had been said. One rumour coming down the stairs as I was leaving was that someone had been smoking too near a smoke alarm! There was no panic where I was simply because no one had any adea what had actually happened. In fact I didn't know there had been any fire at all until I heard it on the radio on the way back.

[francobaresi]

In answer to the question, no...

Why are we looking to blame someone here? A small electrical fire occurred so they switched off the floodlight at half time. It probably kept tripping so isolated it. It is that simple. If it was a confirmed fire with an AFA being activated then the PA system would alert all personnel within that area to evacuate, it didn't! And the notion that Strathclyde's finest would just standby just in case is laughable, they respond to emergency calls and waiting for a game of football to finish is not top of their priority list. Their PDA turned up for this incident hence the Height Appliance, investigated and isolated fault, game called off, no panic or evacuation required, refund supporters with ticket for rescheduled game... Simple...

Move on people, nothing to see here...

[JimBHibees]

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I would have thought there was little chance of a serious fire breaking out after the first minor fire and with the fire brigade in attentance. Comparisons with the disastrous Bradford fire in todays press were nonsense. The Valley Parade stand was a largely wooden structure with a bitumen coated wooden roof, the South stand at Fir park is mostly breeze block and steel. If there had been a serious fire the biggest risk to safely last night was the inaudable tannoy and a possible panic situation on the exit stairs due to lack of information.

And from what I remember the gates were padlocked with no stewards on them hence people couldnt get out from under the stand.