Alex Miller Era

[Jonnyboy]

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Alex Miller did a great job for Hibs over the piece. He was fully committed to the job to the extent that - as pointed out by then chairman Dougie Cromb - he stuck by the club through our darkest hour when he had other offers and could have walked - and went on to win us a nigh on miraculous trophy!
After that he went on to put some more than decent sides together - interspersed by some spells of utter mediocrity as emerging stars were sold on (sounds familiar?)

On the down side, the flip side to a meticulous approach was that he could be an overly cautious manager - while I remember some great seasons with exciting signings I also remember some football that would make your eyes bleed! By the time he left hibs he'd definately taken us as far as he could and I was glad to see him go.

Since then I've seen a lot of managers come and go and if I'm fair to Auld Lexo there are few that I'd say were an improvement - McLeish, Mowbray and maybe Collins. Most of the rest couldn't hold a candle to him - he managed hibs through some difficult times but still managed to take the club forwards on the whole IMO.

So the question is would I like to go back to the Alex Miller days? The answer is NO - although a great technical manager he lacked flamboyance and imagination IMO. I've seen better since and, though undoubtably we could do a lot worse, I'd like to see better again.

This

[Jonnyboy]

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Said before that Lexo would be a very good addition to the Hibs board. Think I said it when Scott Lindsay said he was going to send the next year exploring scouting opportunities...

I once got a ticking off from Dougie Cromb for calling Miller that in the fanzine

[AK86]

Alex Miller wore a maroon sweatshirt on matchdays while manager of Hibs. nuff said
We were outfought time and time again in derbies
he gave games to his laddies, joe T (about 350!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mark mcgraw
im out

[Stevie Reid]

I have to end up writing this on every Miller thread but he managed Hibs mostly in the pre-Bosman era and when there were just 2 (or latterly 3) substitutes making for much smaller matchday squads.

This meant that free transfers were incredibly rare, and there were no wholesale changes every close season, with 5-6 players going out and coming in - he had to build a team gradually as he went on, adding only one or two every year with the same number going out, culminating in 2 excellent teams, the 1991 Skol Cup Final and the 1993 side that finished 3rd, split the Old Firm, missed 2nd place by a point, and lost as few games as Champions Rangers who were in the middle of 9 in a row.

If the first few years were boring, it was because we were crap and the only way to improve was to make us hard to beat, which he certainly did - but the gradual building of the team meant more and more exciting players coming in, and any team that includes Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay in it was certainly not boring. Would he have lasted 4 years in the current climate? Probably not. But could we have been in a far worse situation had someone else managed us during the Mercer take over bid? Absolutely.

To win a trophy so soon after we faced oblivion was a remarkable achievement, and the lack of appreciation for that ranks alongside those who make derogatory comments about JC as one the most perplexing things about the Hibs support. Yes Lexo was dour and many folk disliked him for that (but then many hated Yogi for being a "character" too), and the derby record was shocking but I don't think history has judged Miller fairly.

In his second last season we finished 3rd in the SPL, one point behind Motherwell in 2nd place and lost as few games as the league winners. We scored one less goal than Motherwell and had +12 goal difference compared to their zero. We finished 2 points ahead of Celtic (admittedly in dark days for them), and scored 10 more goals than them. In his last full season we finished 5th in the SPL (10 teams).

The following season Miller resigned after another disastrous derby against Hearts which we lost 3-1 - by this point we had played 7 games and had 10 points from our 3 wins, 3 defeats and a draw. We were dealing with a reduced budget due to the reconstruction of ER, and the squad suffered as a result - we brought in the likes of Ian Cameron to replace Michael O'Neill, for example. At this point, Hearts were doing the opposite - signing Neil McCann, Colin Cameron, Davie Weir and Jim Hamilton whilst getting extension after extension to keep that embarrassment of an away end open - so it shows just how long they've been overspending to gain success on the field at the expense of their infrastructure, and why the council should NEVER be allowed to help them out.

This transitional period under Miller and Hearts' renaissance under Jefferies (along with his dreadful derby record) definitely worked against AM, who was never the most popular even during the best times of his tenure. The 7-0 defeat at Ibrox certainly didn't help either, much like Celtic's resurgance under Tommy Burns, and both the OF turned us over by some considerable scores both home and away, which had been a rarity for all of Miller's tenure until that point. Basically the huge gap in spending between the OF and Hearts and the rest of the league was starting to show (I'm sure Aberdeen were still spending in their old fashioned ways at this point, but without any results).

Anyway, after Jocky Scott took over in the interim, followed by Jim Duffy, both were allowed to sign players in a classic example of funds only being made available in panic situations (IIRC, Scott was allowed to spend a quarter of a million on Yogi) - had these funds been made available to Miller when he was there, his signing record would strongly suggest that we would continue progressing. It would also have saved us spending the fortune that we did after McLeish came in, and getting out of the 1st Division.

As it was, having finished 3rd and 5th in his last two seasons, we were 5th in the league when Miller left - and finished the season in 9th place. The following season we finished 10th, and were relegated.

Would happily have him as Director of Football.

[JustSimplyHibs]

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Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??

Alex Miller moulded a team that won the Scottish Cup months after him leaving to join Hibs in 86/87 season (St Mirren), won the league cup in 91, cup final in 93, helped guide Liverpool to European success in fact did Rafa no indicate that Miller's tactics proved to the contributing factor to his side's success.

Got Hibs into Europe for the first time in decades.

Was appointed a manger of some Asian team to help them avoid relegation - which he done.

Watched some of the football his teams's played after the failed merger...tell you what some good football played, a real team ethic and probably good enough to win the league nowadays, they certainly wouldn't have lay down and took all ways like we have recently against Killie, Motherwell, St Mirren FACT!

The club now has a better infrastructure and is more finacially secure than it was back in the dark days.

His management record at Hibs is probably better than, Yogi, Mixu, Calderwood, Collins + others put together since his sacking, His European record for Hibs is probably the best out of all recent managers as well as league standings. Yes we may have finished 9th or whatever under him but given the situation he done well.

His commitment to Hibs is without a doubt unquestionable compared to Mowbray, Collins and others

A steady pair of hands something which this club is crying out for, (better the devil you know than you dont), I would have more faith in him than what i would have with say Fenlon. O'Neil, BUTCHER (give me a break) and his commitment to Hibs would be so much better compared to Strachan, Davies or anyother (less likely to jump ship at the first offer).

[Andy74]

Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.

[JustSimplyHibs]

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Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.

What year was that, the cup?

How many games did they play for Hibs? Was it more than Alan O'Brien?

[Andy74]

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How many games did they play for Hibs?

Not many but should never have got close to the opportunity.

There is a plus side of no reserve football. We used to have a team of players of decent age who still used to hang about in the squad despite being nowhere near good enough.

[JustSimplyHibs]

Just looking at the real candidates and comparing them to Miller.......


Terry Butcher (please no),
Jim Jeffries (no no noo),
Fenlon (nae idea who he is but by the sounds of things would be the only one to compete against Miller)
Michael O'Neil in my eyes is earmarked for the NI job and i probably wouldn't want him either because of the former player going to management failures we have had recently.
Steve Clarke is a hit or a miss but a bit like BB but younger with a bit more time on his hands - never been tested.
John Collins - he walked out so not interested in him and wouldn't get my full backing for that reason beside would jump ship at the near sniff of the Selick job.

[Dashing Bob S]

The 80's Miller - no thanks.
The 90's Miller - yes please.

'Lexo' was a manager of two halves.

[truehibernian]

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I once got a ticking off from Dougie Cromb for calling Miller that in the fanzine

Good old Douglas....he always reminded me of Tessio from the Godfather films.

[Sunny1875]

Miller was a manager that got time. Whilst the previous few managers have not been inspiring, the way the squads are dismantled after bosman does not help in building a squad. I would accept a manager who was even mediocre in taking the team forwards for a two or three years. Before any expectations are placed on them, A manager must be allowed time, time to bring his own players in, to bring youth through and to impress upon those players both brought in and promoted the way that they want the team to perform and way in which they are expected to be ambassadors for our club. think of the most successful managers around and which ones have instantly transformed their sides or which have had time to build.

[--------]

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Alex Miller wore a maroon sweatshirt on matchdays while manager of Hibs. nuff said
We were outfought time and time again in derbies
he gave games to his laddies, joe T (about 350!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mark mcgraw
im out

He could wear a freakin' pink tutu so long as the team wasn't rolling over the way it is now.

Nor do I remember us being repeatedly 'outfought in derbies' - my recollection is that we regularly played well, didn't carry much of the luck, and a certain rotund centre-forward of the Hearts persuasion punished us over and over again.

The team was organised, properly set up and prepared for matches, and had a lot of very good players in it.

And please, speak no ill of Joe T - he could play half our present squad off the park, and frustrating as he was, there was never any question of his commitment to the cause. (Ask Gordon Strachan!)

Mark McGraw was, I thought, shaping OK until he was injured. As for his laddies, by that time the writing was on the wall - he and Dougie Cromb were being pushed out by a group on the board who wanted change at any price. He knew well we needed a striker, but he was allowed no money to bring one in. Maybe Greg and Graeme were Alex's way of making a point.

Anyway, we got change; Dougie was pushed out, Alex moved on to better things (CL winner as assistant manager with Liverpool), and we settled down to life after Alex Miller.

The price we paid for the change, IIRC, was Jim Duffy and relegation.

[Stevie Reid]

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He could wear a freakin' pink tutu so long as the team wasn't rolling over the way it is now.

Nor do I remember us being repeatedly 'outfought in derbies' - my recollection is that we regularly played well, didn't carry much of the luck, and a certain rotund centre-forward of the Hearts persuasion punished us over and over again.

The team was organised, properly set up and prepared for matches, and had a lot of very good players in it.

And please, speak no ill of Joe T - he could play half our present squad off the park, and frustrating as he was, there was never any question of his commitment to the cause. (Ask Gordon Strachan!)

Mark McGraw was, I thought, shaping OK until he was injured. As for his laddies, by that time the writing was on the wall - he and Dougie Cromb were being pushed out by a group on the board who wanted change at any price. He knew well we needed a striker, but he was allowed no money to bring one in. Maybe Greg and Graeme were Alex's way of making a point.

Anyway, we got change; Dougie was pushed out, Alex moved on to better things (CL winner as assistant manager with Liverpool), and we settled down to life after Alex Miller.

The price we paid for the change, IIRC, was Jim Duffy and relegation.

Good post, Doddie.

RE: Joe Tortolano - I felt so sorry for him. I remember when the team was read out when we played Clyde in the SC at ER in 1994, Joe T had had a good run in the first team and was playing well, and when his name was read out it wasn't met with any boos (pretty momentous stuff for him) - he broke his leg that day.

I remember the story someone on here told about speaking to Andy Goram and him mentioning that he couldn't get near JT's free kicks in training.

[--------]

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Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.

So do I - it was in January 1990. Season 1990/91 was fairly eventful IIRC - Duff and Gray had us on the brink of financial ruin, Mercer launched the takeover bid, BBC News announced that 'it is understood that Hibs have played their last game' (I remember that newscast VERY well) - so maybe it wasn't all Alex's fault that the team was going so badly? Of course, maybe having the club disintegrating around their ears is just the sort of thing that managers and players hould be able to take in their stride. What do YOU think, Andy?

IMO it was astonishing that we managed to avoid bottom spot in the League and stay in existence.

And IIRC the following season was a lot better - didn't the same players, under the same manager, win the League Cup and considerably improve their League placing? In fact, we'd played 14 and only lost the one League game - at Ibrox - at the time we won the League Cup, and we beat and outplayed Rangers in the LC semi-final in what was IMO one of the best games I've seen Hibs play in Glasgow.

"A fair few talented players... played out of position"? That is a total misrepresentation of the situation. Goram, Budgie, Leighton our goalkeepers. Defenders like Willie Miller, McIntyre, Hunter, Mitchell, Steve Tweed. A midfield with players like McAllister, Weir, Hamilton, Orr, Murdo McLeod, Paul Kane, Mike O'Neill, Pat McGinlay. Forwards like Keith Wright, Darren Jackson, Steve Archibald, Keith Houchen.

FYI, Greg played 15 games for Hibs, Graeme 2. Starts, I don't know about - those are their appearances.


Funny you picked a game from the season we nearly went out of existence to slam Alex Miller. You remembered the game, but you didn't remember what was going on in the boardroom? Memory's a strange thing, isn't it?

[--------]

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Good post, Doddie.

RE: Joe Tortolano - I felt so sorry for him. I remember when the team was read out when we played Clyde in the SC at ER in 1994, Joe T had had a good run in the first team and was playing well, and when his name was read out it wasn't met with any boos (pretty momentous stuff for him) - he broke his leg that day.

I remember the story someone on here told about speaking to Andy Goram and him mentioning that he couldn't get near JT's free kicks in training.

Joe's leg-break - and it was a bad one - did affect him in his later years at ER. I always like him.

[tamig]

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Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??

My own view is the negative stigma that was attached to AM was undeserved. People forget that he broke our first Jamboo hoodoo - from 83-87 - and I think the general view that his teams were negative is a bit of a myth. Sure there were some bad times - but that was when we were really in the financial doldrums. The man retained dignity and kept the club going during the Mercer atrocity. His team of the mid 90s with the likes of McAllister, O'Neill, Wright and Jacko gave me some of my best times as a Hibee. We really held the upper hand in derbies around that time. In summary, I don't complain about the AM era and I thank him for providing me with some good memories.

[tamig]

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Andy Millen
Brian Hamilton
Keith Houchen
Mark McGraw
Joe McLaughlin
Ian Cameron

and to top the lot

Ray Wilkins

Does anyone reminiscing, want to provide any evidence that since he's left he's grasped the importance of a youth policy and progression? The Miller era was 10 wasted years for our youth set up. The much maligned Stanton did more in his criticised 2 years than Miller did in a decade.

17 in a row, quickly followed by 22 in a row points to a deep rooted problem, and I'm sure Miller would find a way to lose to Hearts under 19s next season.

Football to make your eyes bleed, 11 men back at corners.

So, it's a big no from the P&G jury.

Full of inaccuracies.

You can't pin 17 in a row on Miller. That run started in 83 and Miller didn't arrive til November 86. Soon put that run to bed the following season.

And some of the players you list did a good turn for Hibs. Hamilton - although not liked by a lot of fans - was a mainstay of the midfield that won the cup. Him and McGinlay worked brilliantly together. Joe McLaughlin did well in the short time he was here - a class defender imo.

McGraw looked a real prospect until he got a bad injury against Dunfermline a few weeks before the final. You forget we beat Liverpool to sign him?

I also reckon AM signed Wilkins with a role in mind. What that role was we'll never know as he was emptied soon after.

Not too much thought in your post imo.

[Bostonhibby]

to both Tamig's posts above, the best reflection of how I recall the Miller era and events, and I was around a lot then!

[E10 Rifle]

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During that time I went every home game at ER & many away games, never entered my head to miss a match. Now I no longer go at all.

Great thread, some really good points ...but the above post says it all for me.

I would love to think there is a role for Alex Miller at the club. He did stay too long (he should have walked after we were gubbed 4-0 at Ibrox IMHO where we didn't even try to score, and he looked like he was out of ideas), but beyond that I feel he is as much to do with Hibs still being here as STF.

[Jonnyboy]

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Good old Douglas....he always reminded me of Tessio from the Godfather films.

A fanzine nickname for DC was "Davros"

Unkind really because DC was/is a lovely bloke

[Jonnyboy]

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Great thread, some really good points ...but the above post says it all for me.

I would love to think there is a role for Alex Miller at the club. He did stay too long (he should have walked after we were gubbed 4-0 at Ibrox IMHO where we didn't even try to score, and he looked like he was out of ideas), but beyond that I feel he is as much to do with Hibs still being here as STF.

Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?

[truehibernian]

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A fanzine nickname for DC was "Davros"

Unkind really because DC was/is a lovely bloke

Indeed JB.........davros did make me smile though.

DC had what I think those being respectful would call a 'lived in' appearance Like a Scottish Walter Matthau.

A very, very courteous man. Great humility.

[Jonnyboy]

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Indeed JB.........davros did make me smile though.

DC had what I think those being respectful would call a 'lived in' appearance Like a Scottish Walter Matthau.

A very, very courteous man. Great humility.

[judas]

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We expect miracles in a matter of months nowadays. Instant gratification.

Agreed.

I hope we do not become an Aberdeen, with a culture of management changes and ridiculous expectation.

[Eyrie]

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Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?

Think we were 2-0 down with 15 minutes left when the roof fell in at Ibrox.

[Hal Jordan]

Davros - I nearly peed myself laughing the first time I read that

[truehibernian]

http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com...er011096_2.jpg

Good wee article this. Who'd have thought.....a chairman in tears when a manager hands in his resignation, saying he will go on to better things (and proved correct). An ex player (and legend) saying he knows the game inside out................a manager who goes with dignity. And fans wanting Gordon to replace to unite the club............seems we have been pining for GS for a lot longer than I thought

[Hal Jordan]

I remember the 'Lexo' years very well, just as I remember Joe Totolano having lightning pace and being able to whip in a brilliant cross about 3 times out of 10. He needed time to build a team, just as he needed to keep us up and consolidate in the first few years in charge.
It's fashionable to slag him off now, but take a look at this team, they'd rip the rest of the SPL apart today...


http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com...squad93-94.jpg

[Musselbound]

Ten years is a long time to be in charge. In the last ten years Hibs have won a league cup, finished third once and fourth a couple of times. I don't think Alex Miller did any better than that. Yes, there were one or two very good teams, particularly around '93, and some quality players, but also a lot of mediocrity - much like the last 10 years.

Serious rose-tinted glasses stuff from anyone thinking about taking Miller back at this time. During most of those ten years a lot of people wanted him out and that would not change if he came back. By today's football standards he would not last two years and probably less at Hibs!