U21 to full team

[frazeHFC]

Once again, a brilliant performance by our youngsters, this time against the mighty Ducth! If our U21s can beat the U21s of these countries, what goes wrong from there? Are we not good at blooding them into the full team, or what is your thoughts?

Hopefully some of these youngsters progress and become big players for the full team.

[AlbertK86]

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Once again, a brilliant performance by our youngsters, this time against the mighty Ducth! If our U21s can beat the U21s of these countries, what goes wrong from there? Are we not good at blooding them into the full team, or what is your thoughts?

Hopefully some of these youngsters progress and become big players for the full team.

Simple what goes wrong is Craig levein only plays negative football

[Future17]

Given that this problem has existed for a long time, it obviously isn't Craig Levein's fault - as much as we might want to blame him for everthing that ever goes wrong ever.

I think there's a number of answers to this question:

1) At Under 21 level, the footballing experience of our guys is pretty much on a par with major countries. By which I mean that the starting XI is made up of a combination of players who are regular first team players at average clubs and some who are at better clubs but aren't getting regular first team football.

However, in full internationals there are no major countries who include players in their starting XIs who are not regular first team players for their clubs. Historically, Scotland have done this and suffered as a result.

In praise of Levein, he has said previously that he would only pick players who are first team regulars for their clubs and on form. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he's really stuck to that policy as stringently as he might have.

2) Systems and style. Scottish football teams (at least the few that have traditionally provided the bulk of international players) play a certain way. Once players start playing regular first team football in that specific style and using certain rigid formations and tactics, it can be very difficult to teach them to play any other way. It usually results in our national team playing in a very one-dimensional manner or, if we try something different, it not working as the players don't understand it or can't adapt to it.

Contrast that to major international countries who tend to be selecting players from a multitude of leagues around the world. Their players also tend to be better travelled and have experience of different systems of play.

3) Developmental drop-off. Until Darren Fletcher, you have to go back a number of years to find a Scottish international player who has improved and progressed year after year. In order to improve, players have to have the desire and motivation to do so and a massive part of that comes from environment.

I think most people would agree that Rangers and Celtic (as the clubs that tend to supply the most players to the international team) have gone backwards in the past 10-20 years in terms of the quality of player they put on the pitch.

It's a sweeping generalisation/assumption but I believe that players who choose to stay and play in the uncompetitive environment of the SPL lack the necessary desire and motivation to improve once they are established first team players at the age of 23/24. There are numerous examples of this - past and present - and a few examples of those who have taken the other route and become better players (D Fletcher, S Fletcher, Adam etc.).

Again, this isn't such a problem in other major countries as the leagues are generally more competitive.

I'm sure there are many other reasons, but there's a start.

[Jonnyboy]

We should be doing what Wales have been doing. Dump all the old 'had yer chance' faces and concentrate on youth to build a team that might just be able to qualify for something

[nonshinyfinish]

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Once again, a brilliant performance by our youngsters, this time against the mighty Ducth! If our U21s can beat the U21s of these countries, what goes wrong from there? Are we not good at blooding them into the full team, or what is your thoughts?

Hopefully some of these youngsters progress and become big players for the full team.

Q: Hibs' U19 team won a league and cup double a couple of years ago. Why are we still waiting for our double-winning senior team to emerge?

A: Because even if they have great success at that level, very few youth players make the cut in top-level senior football (and I am stretching the phrase 'top-level' to breaking point in order to include the SPL). The same applies to international youth teams - if all international teams were just their U21 team from 3 years ago, then things would look very different, but that's not how it works.

[clerriehibs]

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Given that this problem has existed for a long time, it obviously isn't Craig Levein's fault - as much as we might want to blame him for everthing that ever goes wrong ever.

I think there's a number of answers to this question:

1) At Under 21 level, the footballing experience of our guys is pretty much on a par with major countries. By which I mean that the starting XI is made up of a combination of players who are regular first team players at average clubs and some who are at better clubs but aren't getting regular first team football.

However, in full internationals there are no major countries who include players in their starting XIs who are not regular first team players for their clubs. Historically, Scotland have done this and suffered as a result.

In praise of Levein, he has said previously that he would only pick players who are first team regulars for their clubs and on form. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he's really stuck to that policy as stringently as he might have.

2) Systems and style. Scottish football teams (at least the few that have traditionally provided the bulk of international players) play a certain way. Once players start playing regular first team football in that specific style and using certain rigid formations and tactics, it can be very difficult to teach them to play any other way. It usually results in our national team playing in a very one-dimensional manner or, if we try something different, it not working as the players don't understand it or can't adapt to it.

Contrast that to major international countries who tend to be selecting players from a multitude of leagues around the world. Their players also tend to be better travelled and have experience of different systems of play.

3) Developmental drop-off. Until Darren Fletcher, you have to go back a number of years to find a Scottish international player who has improved and progressed year after year. In order to improve, players have to have the desire and motivation to do so and a massive part of that comes from environment.

I think most people would agree that Rangers and Celtic (as the clubs that tend to supply the most players to the international team) have gone backwards in the past 10-20 years in terms of the quality of player they put on the pitch.

It's a sweeping generalisation/assumption but I believe that players who choose to stay and play in the uncompetitive environment of the SPL lack the necessary desire and motivation to improve once they are established first team players at the age of 23/24. There are numerous examples of this - past and present - and a few examples of those who have taken the other route and become better players (D Fletcher, S Fletcher, Adam etc.).

Again, this isn't such a problem in other major countries as the leagues are generally more competitive.

I'm sure there are many other reasons, but there's a start.

Another major reason is that we have no reserve league - the youngsters cannot be expected to stay performing at 1st team level without burning out, but they still need some kind of competitive match when not in the 1st team. In Scotland, they get to kick their heels on the bench, at best, on match days.