Is racism a problem compared to sectarianism in Scottish football?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'd say no.

[Dashing Bob S]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd say no.

I'd agree, but would add the caveat that only because we largely live in a mono-ethnic city with a monotonic support.

Sectarianism has poisoned Scotland for generations.

[steakbake]

Sectarianism is more widespread, more co-ordinated and unfortunately, more accepted than racism in football. There is no place for either but I sometime wish the hard words, resolve and support that "show racism the red card" gets could be poured into anti-sectarianism. Instead we have a slippery battle of semantics about what is sectarian abuse and what isn't. Fact of the matter is that both cheeks of the plooky arse of Glasgow have lots to gain from perpetuating tribalism and tacitly allowing sectarian behavior in their support.

As for trying to legislate for it, I think the Scottish Gov are on a hiding to nothing but fair play for actually trying to do something.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Very true, might be more worthwhile for the club to spend a fiver to protest against sectarianism then.

[Spudster]

I don't actually believe sectarianism is the problem. If religion didn't exist they would still act exactly the same, religion and sectarianism is just an (poor) excuse for behaving like PS They = OF fans

[Sas_The_Hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd agree, but would add the caveat that only because we largely live in a mono-ethnic city with a monotonic support.

Sectarianism has poisoned Scotland for generations.

This was perhaps true 50 years ago, but I don't believe it's true today, and Edinburgh's a much richer city for it IMO.

Racism's still an issue in Scotland (though no more than anywhere else in Europe) but I think it's much less of an issue in Scottish football than it apparently is in some other European countries.

[steakbake]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't actually believe sectarianism is the problem. If religion didn't exist they would still act exactly the same, religion and sectarianism is just an (poor) excuse for behaving like PS They = OF fans

Yes, also true.

In an alternate reality, they'd find other reasons. The problem in this picture is that the clubs have no interest in combatting it genuinely. It defines them, gives them meaning and gives them victim or villain status as and when it suits their needs.

[RIP]

I hear sectarian behaviour at 2 matches per season

Sadly I've heard racism at over a dozen Hibs games in the last 12 months

[Franck Stanton]

Unfortunately I think it is a bigger problem than most football supporters realise. I have, for a variety of reasons,[ too many and boring to list,] had the misfortune to attend a number of Dundee games over last few seasons and have found them to be extremly vocal in their racist remarks to quite a few players. Now I am not claiming they are the only supporters that partake in this, as I am sure we have a small number who do likewise, but they have a large proportion of bigoted idiots shouting some truly horrendous comments. Needs to be stamped out. As for me, - yes I am colour predudiced, ----- I hate Maroon.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

With the OF only sectarianism, without neither bar a few *****. Haven't seen racism at a football match for some time now.

[Jack]

I suspect we’re (Scottish football fans) better at keeping the lid on racism but as others have said sectarianism has its place in the hearts OF too many.

I also suspect however, that scratch the surface of our Scottish population and racism would be all too apparent.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

How can folks truly know whether they are racist if they've not been exposed to a multicultural environment or another culture? Ignorance

Are these statements racist...
I hate the English
I've got good English mates but can't stand them as a nation

[lucky]

The Edinburgh song is racist yet it is song by some usually on enroute to the PBS. There is a problem but it is now regarded as unacceptable to make jokes or spout vile over someones ethnic origin. We are driving it out of football but with organisations such as SDL hanging on to some clubs we must continue to show our disgust at those who behave in this manner.

[Makaveli]

Dunno about anyone else but from my experience you hear more racism in the pub/street/media than at the football, and with sectarianism it's the other way round.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Dunno about anyone else but from my experience you hear more racism in the pub/street/media than at the football, and with sectarianism it's the other way round.

Correct. You get the odd idiot but its not played out by large scale chanting or behaiour that is inherently racist these days. Not here anyway.

Down the list of current issues for football clubs to tackle. The lack of volunteers jumping to help on a previous thread suggests its just not a key issue for people.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I am not really sure if I see any difference between racism and sectarianism TBH.

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I hear sectarian behaviour at 2 matches per season

Sadly I've heard racism at over a dozen Hibs games in the last 12 months

In a nutshell.

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How can folks truly know whether they are racist if they've not been exposed to a multicultural environment or another culture? Ignorance

Are these statements racist...
I hate the English
I've got good English mates but can't stand them as a nation

No, they are xenophobic IMHO.

[franks]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am not really sure if I see any difference between racism and sectarianism TBH.

Tend to agree with the above. No room for either at the football or society in general.

[Hibbyradge]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How can folks truly know whether they are racist if they've not been exposed to a multicultural environment or another culture? Ignorance

Are these statements racist...
I hate the English
I've got good English mates but can't stand them as a nation

They're xenophobic statements rather than racist, but that's just semantics.

They're still poisonous.

[Jack]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How can folks truly know whether they are racist if they've not been exposed to a multicultural environment or another culture? Ignorance

Are these statements racist...
I hate the English
I've got good English mates but can't stand them as a nation

I'm English and can relate to that, that's how I feel sometimes, where does that leave me

[Geo_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm English and can relate to that, that's how I feel sometimes, where does that leave me

Self-abuser?

[basehibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd say no.

It would be burying our heads in the sand just to blythly say we don't have any problem with racism, but it is dwarfed by our problems with sectarianism.

People in Scotland have largely cottoned on pretty willingly to the concepts of political correctness and anti-racism (notwithstanding OTT interpretations) and, on the whole we are a nation that fully relates to the idea of racial equality ("a man's a man for a' that....").

With sectarianism the attitudes are more ingrained, being intwined as they are with feeble minded "traditions" as perpetuated by Rangers and Celtic football clubs in particular. These nonsensical attitudes have been clung onto by various inadequate morons who cling onto the backward notions of sectarianism as some kind of badge of honour - associating them as they do, with the greater communities of ******ed f***wits that congregate at Parkhead and Ibrox every other weekend.

[heretoday]

Interesting question. In the 60s/70s it was quite acceptable to stand and sing "I'd rather be a darkie than a hun". The Celtic player Paul Wilson was a terracing target with an example being "Paul Wilson - he's jungle-fresh" sung to the tune of a TV soft drinks advert of the time.

It's hard to believe those sentiments have entirely disappeared but it's true to say that anyone carrying on like that at a match now would quickly be pointed out by fellow fans. So that's good.

Sectarianism, however, is doing great business.

[khib70]

Clearly both things are a problem, but there is a vital distinction.

Racism, as several posters correctly point out, can be encountered at any game at any ground in Scotland or elsewhere. At the StJ game, the guy sitting next to me in the Lower West ventured the remark that "none of the darkies are playing well today", which is clearly a racist remark. You overhear this rubbish every game of the season, and clearly the perpetrators don't see anything wrong in it. It needs to be challenged, and indeed I did challenge the above comment. More than that, it needs to be eliminated.

However, sectarianism will always be a more significant factor, for the simple reason that it puts bums (literally) on seats at the two largest clubs in the country, and contributes directly to their position of dominance. That's why the two clubs with by far the biggest problem will continue to pay lip service to combatting sectarianism, then go away and do nothing about it/whine and whinge when the government proposes to do something about it.

[lEXO]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd say no.

I,d tend to agree H. I have encountered it at Hibs games, one in particular when a Hibs fan in the wrong seat racially abused a steward at the PBS.
I challenged him on it and he shut up and i think supporters are more likely to challenge racism more thn sectarian abuse.

[Moody Mulder]

here's my ten bobs worth and it might not sit all that well in this topic but i am far more concerned about physical violence than name callling !!!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

here's my ten bobs worth and it might not sit all that well in this topic but i am far more concerned about physical violence than name callling !!!!!

I'd tend to agree with that, I cant recall anything thats particularly offended me in all my time of going to the football apart from the time a policeman at Ibrox threatened me with a breach of the peace charge for shaking my head at him!

[IndieHibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd tend to agree with that, I cant recall anything thats particularly offended me in all my time of going to the football apart from the time a policeman at Ibrox threatened me with a breach of the peace charge for shaking my head at him!

What did he actually want you to do?

[Hibs Class]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I hear sectarian behaviour at 2 matches per season

Sadly I've heard racism at over a dozen Hibs games in the last 12 months

I'd probably agree with those stats, but add that the racist comments tend to be shouts by single supporters whilst the sectarian stuff will involve a large number of those in the south stand.