Why oh Why?

[beensaidbefore]

Can anyone give me a logical reason why Hibs for several years now have failed to cash in on any of the revenue generated by the festivals? Years agoi i sent an email to Mr Lindsay asking why i could only buy hibs strips form ER. Still nothing has changed. Do you not think tourist must think scotland only has 2 teams, and judging form Princes Street who could blame them?

Get it sorted hibs, cos even as a supporter i cant be arsed coming to the shop, let alone some guy from the pother side of the world when he can buy Arsenal, rangers, madrid, all in princess street??

Anyone know a real reason why we couldnt tap into this market? The population of edinburgh doubles during the festival ffs .

[oldbutdim]

I think the view was that very few Hibs tops would be sold in such outlets, as the demand was greater for Old Bigots tops and the shops wouldn’t really stock them up – and by the time you knocked off the manufacturers and shops profits there was hee-haw left for Hibs.
Selling them ONLY from Hibs shop means that the bulk of the strips which would have been bought (ie from Hibs fans) are still bought, and all the cash goes to Hibs rather than share with a shop.


Presumably a bit of market research was done to suggest this.

[Barney McGrew]

Although the OP's username says it all, it's worth looking at the current Celtc shop as an example of the running costs of a retail outlet in the centre of town, especially seeing that they are closing it down and looking for a new tenant for it and the figures are available (so obviously it can't be that profitable )

Rent £60,000 per annum (plus VAT)
Rates Payable £27,760 per annum
Wages probably around £80,000 minimum inc PAYE
Plus utilities, insurances, and other expenses
The shop fit initially won't be cheap either, as well as ongoing marketing costs etc.

Although that's back of the fag packet stuff, by the time you add it up it will probably cost around £200,000 a year just to open the doors. If you work off a 50% profit margin, you need to take around £8k a week to break even.

That's a lot of merchandise to shift to tourists to make it wipe it's face let alone bring in some more revenue.

[beensaidbefore]

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I think the view was that very few Hibs tops would be sold in such outlets, as the demand was greater for Old Bigots tops and the shops wouldn’t really stock them up – and by the time you knocked off the manufacturers and shops profits there was hee-haw left for Hibs.
Selling them ONLY from Hibs shop means that the bulk of the strips which would have been bought (ie from Hibs fans) are still bought, and all the cash goes to Hibs rather than share with a shop.


Presumably a bit of market research was done to suggest this.

I agree to a point. in order to expand the hibs 'brand' (some may laugh) there should perhaps be an attempt to accumulate through a little speculation.

I see no reason that an 'Edinburgh Sports'(you heard ot here first) shop offering hibs, hearts, even livingston football, scotland, edinburgh rugby, speedway, ice hockey, basketball, and any others, would not be a success. The shop could be designed with a hibs n hearts halfs to highlight the edinburgh rivalry. If run in conjunction with hearts, the club could play a part in the running/ownership which could result in another source of income??

I pesonally dont have the finances or ability to pull this off, but for a long time have thought this idea would work, as we are a year round destination.

[Barney McGrew]

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I agree to a point. in order to expand the hibs 'brand' (some may laugh) there should perhaps be an attempt to accumulate through a little speculation.

I see no reason that an 'Edinburgh Sports'(you heard ot here first) shop offering hibs, hearts, even livingston football, scotland, edinburgh rugby, speedway, ice hockey, basketball, and any others, would not be a success. The shop could be designed with a hibs n hearts halfs to highlight the edinburgh rivalry. If run in conjunction with hearts, the club could play a part in the running/ownership which could result in another source of income??

I pesonally dont have the finances or ability to pull this off, but for a long time have thought this idea would work, as we are a year round destination.

If Celtc, who have a fanbase far bigger than Hibs/Hertz/Livi/Edinburgh Rugby and anyone else you've mentioned combined can't make it work, then there's no way we would.

It doesn't stack up.

[smurf]

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Although the OP's username says it all, it's worth looking at the current Celtc shop as an example of the running costs of a retail outlet in the centre of town, especially seeing that they are closing it down and looking for a new tenant for it and the figures are available (so obviously it can't be that profitable )

Rent £60,000 per annum (plus VAT)
Rates Payable £27,760 per annum
Wages probably around £80,000 minimum inc PAYE
Plus utilities, insurances, and other expenses
The shop fit initially won't be cheap either, as well as ongoing marketing costs etc.

Although that's back of the fag packet stuff, by the time you add it up it will probably cost around £200,000 a year just to open the doors. If you work off a 50% profit margin, you need to take around £8k a week to break even.

That's a lot of merchandise to shift to tourists to make it wipe it's face let alone bring in some more revenue.

They could though look at much shorter term 'premises'...

[beensaidbefore]

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Although the OP's username says it all, it's worth looking at the current Celtc shop as an example of the running costs of a retail outlet in the centre of town, especially seeing that they are closing it down and looking for a new tenant for it and the figures are available (so obviously it can't be that profitable )

Rent £60,000 per annum (plus VAT)
Rates Payable £27,760 per annum
Wages probably around £80,000 minimum inc PAYE
Plus utilities, insurances, and other expenses
The shop fit initially won't be cheap either, as well as ongoing marketing costs etc.

Although that's back of the fag packet stuff, by the time you add it up it will probably cost around £200,000 a year just to open the doors. If you work off a 50% profit margin, you need to take around £8k a week to break even.

That's a lot of merchandise to shift to tourists to make it wipe it's face let alone bring in some more revenue.

First point, iv only bee a member for a couple of weeks so who knows whats posted in the past.

However the figures you mention, i agree are not really workable, didnt know thats how much it cost. Still think it could be workable tho if not focussing on hibs alone...

[beensaidbefore]

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If Celtc, who have a fanbase far bigger than Hibs/Hertz/Livi/Edinburgh Rugby and anyone else you've mentioned combined can't make it work, then there's no way we would.

It doesn't stack up.

But how may places sell celtic tops??, you can get them all over the world, you dont need to get one in edinburgh, if your a toursit and like celtic, you prob go to parkhead to see the stadium and but a top/scarf. Dont think ER has the same appeal for stadium/trophy tours.

How many places can you buy sports items representing the Edinburgh sports?

[Barney McGrew]

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They could though look at much shorter term 'premises'...

They could, and IIRC from a previous fans forum I was at it's something they have looked at. Any retail unit, particularly in the centre of town won't let on anything less than a six month lease so all you'd do is pro-rata the figures down - unfortunately the break even figure would remain the same.

The other option that's been mooted is some sort of mobile caravan of the likes you see outside Hampden selling the Official Scotland Merchandise, but there's not really many places they could site it in the centre and it would no doubt cost a lot for the pitch too.

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But how may places sell celtic tops??, you can get them all over the world, you dont need to get one in edinburgh, if your a toursit and like celtic, you prob go to parkhead to see the stadium and but a top/scarf. Dont think ER has the same appeal for stadium/trophy tours.

How many places can you buy sports items representing the Edinburgh sports?

I don't think many tourists would bother TBH. They're far more likely to get the strip of a team they know. How many people going on holiday to Mallorca or Tenerife for example buy the strip of a local team and how many buy a Barca or Real Madrid one?

[johnrebus]

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They could though look at much shorter term 'premises'...

Exactly.
Why could we not hire a church hall to sell merchandise?
That has never been done befo... No - wait....,

[Darth Hibbie]

I would expect the costings of a city centre shop have been looked at several times in a variety of different forms. If the board thought it would be profitable then there would be one.

[smurf]

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They could, and IIRC from a previous fans forum I was at it's something they have looked at. Any retail unit, particularly in the centre of town won't let on anything less than a six month lease so all you'd do is pro-rata the figures down - unfortunately the break even figure would remain the same.

The other option that's been mooted is some sort of mobile caravan of the likes you see outside Hampden selling the Official Scotland Merchandise, but there's not really many places they could site it in the centre and it would no doubt cost a lot for the pitch too.



I don't think many tourists would bother TBH. They're far more likely to get the strip of a team they know. How many people going on holiday to Mallorca or Tenerife for example buy the strip of a local team and how many buy a Barca or Real Madrid one?

The mobile caravan was what I was thinking off.

I've mooted this idea before but it could also be used outwith the festival for school visits etc

There's potential. Would allow the club to save money on other outdoor advertising its currently using etc

[grunt]

Heh heh, selling Hibs gear from a caravan in Princes Street gardens...
Perhaps if we sold clothes pegs from the caravan as well, our neighbours' dreams would come true!

[Albion Hibs]

We dont have a big enough fan base to justify our own shop in town, no where near it I would suspect. The hertz one has closed down, as did the rangers one, if the celtic one is still there I would assume it does little to no trade, may even be a loser for them, but with there finances and support they can probably afford to lose that money.

In terms of putting our gear in existing shops I suppose we are then into sharing the profit from the strips and the risk that our own fans end up just picking one up in town rather than in the club shop where we get all of the money.

Not a massive fan of the idea of a hibs caravan! which out with the month of august (festival) would be used for school trips, dont know what that means, but I think our money would be better spent on the team rather than one of those VW passion wagon vans - Rod and Scott would look a little sill driving about in that!

[Fantic]

Another angle would be for Easter Road to be made available as a venue for fringe shows. This would get tourists down to the shop and some may buy a ticket for a cat b game if we had one at the weekend.

[smurf]

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Heh heh, selling Hibs gear from a caravan in Princes Street gardens...
Perhaps if we sold clothes pegs from the caravan as well, our neighbours' dreams would come true!

If it was nicely branded it would look good and not be tacky.

[beensaidbefore]

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Another angle would be for Easter Road to be made available as a venue for fringe shows. This would get tourists down to the shop and some may buy a ticket for a cat b game if we had one at the weekend.

Very good idea indeed. Tbh could probably host quite a big name due to the potential crowd. How many could Forth suite hold? could make sure shop was open befeore and after and shows and give discound vouchers etc to get them through the door.


Re caravan in town, i wouldnt give a monkeys whay our neigbours say, if it brings in a little bit money, even selling pin badges and scarfs and t-shirts would be better than nothing. how much would it cost to have a couple people working one of stalls on the Royal Mile, cant be that much judging by the tat thats usually on sale.

hibs could in addition to stalls or even on its own do keepy uppy comps , crossbar challenge tyep things for kids, both tourist and local, get them all having fun at the minor expense of hibs. happy memories of hibs as kids may bring their support and £'s as adults.

[greenlex]

Could we sell Calum Booth and buy a shop in Princes Street.?

[HibsCan]

I remember vaguely early 70's Ronnie Simpson had a shop on Rose Street and Thompsons on Great Junction Street and Leith Street sold Hibs/Hearts stuff no?

[jakki]

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I remember vaguely early 70's Ronnie Simpson had a shop on Rose Street and Thompsons on Great Junction Street and Leith Street sold Hibs/Hearts stuff no?

I remember that. I bought my first Hibs scarf from the shop in Great Junction Street over 50 years ago. Also bought the Hibs kit for my wee 4yo foster brother.

[Gala Foxes]

Its not rocket science - a shop in Edinburgh City Centre would not be financially viable. Selling a couple of shirts at best a day would not pay wages, rent and rates. Other than at the start of a season and at Xmas the shop would be dead. I walked past the old Hearts shop in St James Centre every day, rarely even one punter in the shop.

Hibs are also right to sell shirts exclusively through our own shop - rather than getting modest monies for shirts sold through the nationals like JJB etc

Hearts have shut their shop down, Celtic's store is up for lease - tells its own story

[cocopops1875]

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I agree to a point. in order to expand the hibs 'brand' (some may laugh) there should perhaps be an attempt to accumulate through a little speculation.

I see no reason that an 'Edinburgh Sports'(you heard ot here first) shop offering hibs, hearts, even livingston football, scotland, edinburgh rugby, speedway, ice hockey, basketball, and any others, would not be a success. The shop could be designed with a hibs n hearts halfs to highlight the edinburgh rivalry. If run in conjunction with hearts, the club could play a part in the running/ownership which could result in another source of income??

I pesonally dont have the finances or ability to pull this off, but for a long time have thought this idea would work, as we are a year round destination.

Yeah I did hear this here 1st but around 2 years back ;-).

[cocopops1875]

I agree there is a market for this type of thing as i would always buy a shirt from where I go( assuming its not a hideous maroon affair), that said I would happily make the trip to the stadium to make this purchase. If it was a viable option the gold bros would have looked into tying up a deal with Hibs, hearts, sfa, sru, Edinburgh rugby, livi, hockey team, basketball team, and speedway. Also it has to be mentioned that we have a specialist football shirt shop in the city center who sells niether our shirt or hearts so you would assume they have enquired about it at some point.

[Brizo]

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I don't think many tourists would bother TBH. They're far more likely to get the strip of a team they know. How many people going on holiday to Mallorca or Tenerife for example buy the strip of a local team and how many buy a Barca or Real Madrid one?

In a nutshell. That applies even in the UK. I was in Bristol in summer , didnt even cross my mind to buy one of their two clubs strips. Why would someone from there buy a Hibs strip when up here. Were not a household name in England let alone the USA or mainland Europe and buying a fitba tops bound to be at the bottom or pretty near to it of your average tourists "to do" list.

What the club should be doing is maximising the potential of the club shop. I find most of the stuff pretty naff and while they have made some improvements in that area theres still scope for further improvement

[carnoustiehibee]

On a side note, is there still a big polish community in leith?

Just thought we might've bought an old polish international, to encourage more fans down to Easter road

[marinello59]

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On a side note, is there still a big polish community in leith?

Just thought we might've bought an old polish international, to encourage more fans down to Easter road

I'd rather we bought we new one. The second hand marked for old Polish internationals can be a bit of a minefield.

[Jack]

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I agree to a point. in order to expand the hibs 'brand' (some may laugh) there should perhaps be an attempt to accumulate through a little speculation.I see no reason that an 'Edinburgh Sports'(you heard ot here first) shop offering hibs, hearts, even livingston football, scotland, edinburgh rugby, speedway, ice hockey, basketball, and any others, would not be a success. The shop could be designed with a hibs n hearts halfs to highlight the edinburgh rivalry. If run in conjunction with hearts, the club could play a part in the running/ownership which could result in another source of income?? I pesonally dont have the finances or ability to pull this off, but for a long time have thought this idea would work, as we are a year round destination.

I wrote a couple of weeks ago about how little the SPL appear to do in promoting the SPL. Part of that was SPL shops, selling all SPL kits, in the bigger cities in Scotland and the airports.

[superfurryhibby]

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I remember that. I bought my first Hibs scarf from the shop in Great Junction Street over 50 years ago. Also bought the Hibs kit for my wee 4yo foster brother.

John Paterson, the father of Craig Paterson and centre half from the title winning teams of the 50's worked there for many years. They still have an outlet on Elm Row.

[LancashireHibby]

Don't think there's anywhere near the footfall to justify a city centre shop, although I do like the idea of a temporary store that would include all the other Edinburgh sports teams.

Do not though underestimate the power of the tourist - I know I've probably told this story on here in the past, but the whole reason I began to follow Hibs was coming up for a weekend away with my parents when I was 7/8 years old and saw Easter Road from Calton Hill; HFC have since had probably thousands of pounds out of me and my family since then, so it's worth following up in the long term!

[Calvin]

Even if a shop is not viable, we should still be pushing the matches to the tourist market. We had home matches against St Johnstone, St Mirren and Berwick during the festival. How were any of the hundreds of thousands of tourists meant to know about this? Even if you are a big football fan visiting, your mindset is to look through the International Festival and Fringe brochures, not to be checking up on the Hibs website in case there's a match on.

If countless dire English student groups can get people through the doors for their pathetic productions by flyering on the Royal Mile, then I have no doubt at all that Hibs could. Especially with matches on Saturday at 3pm, when the peak of the festival isn't in full flow and tourists are looking not for shows but for attractions to visit, a football match would surely be an attractive proposition for a lot of people.

Some flyposters about the place advertising a Scottish Premier League match at Easter Road Stadium and a few guys on the Royal Mile trying to target getting some new fans through the door could work wonders. Tickets could be sold directly by the guys on the street so that they didn't have to trek down to Easter Road twice, and getting people to matches would also boost merchandise sales because they wouldn't come all the way down to ER without having a browse in the shop.

Fair enough if we tried this and it was concluded that it was not worthwhile as tourists simply aren't interested in Scottish football, but it's worth a shot for a year at least.