38 games, 22 defeats. Impossible to defend that record. ENDOF.

[Hibs On Tour]

To avoid all the 'selective statistics' crowd, here's the only one that matters - 38 games in charge, 22 defeats.

Inherited a ***** squad? - so have other managers. Time to make an impact? Been here 10 months now including 2 transfer windows [given that they've already said that business is finished for this one]. If it wasn't for an injury time goal we would be bottom of the table and 3 points adrift already. The game midweek tired our players? Well then, use different players from the squad - no rocket science is it? If you wanted a settled team for the derby without them being tired, why play them midweek? Can't have it both ways. Can't say the board haven't backed him either - backed him on transfers and backed him when he blatantly wanted away but the 'suitors' wouldn't stump up the cash.

Well Mr Petrie, I trust that £50-100k or whatever short of your valuation is sufficient 'justification' for the shambles that is unfolding because its looking at this stage like its going to cost us a lot more than that in terms of less fans through the gates, lower league position and not a chance of a cup run on this evidence. Congratulations.

Just very, very pissed off...

[Prawn Sandwich]

Bill Leckie in the Sun says today "Under Colin Calderwood Hibs are a shambles."

Read on http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...rnian-0br.html

[connerg]

38 games in charge, well that's a season, so that would give us 34 points. Take away the Berwick Rangers win because that was the cup, we would have 31 points. Dycing with death there, ie relegation.

How do other teams with new managers and new players seem to bed in quicker than they do at Hibs?

[Sir David Gray]

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38 games in charge, well that's a season, so that would give us 34 points. Take away the Berwick Rangers win because that was the cup, we would have 31 points. Dycing with death there, ie relegation.

How do other teams with new managers and new players seem to bed in quicker than they do at Hibs?

If you're not counting cup games then he's been in charge for 35 league matches because he was also in charge for the two Scottish Cup games against Ayr.

P-35
W-9
D-5
L-21

32 league points in a period that is 3 games short of a full league season would probably see us relegated if we were talking about this run being from August-May.

[KiddA]

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38 games in charge, well that's a season, so that would give us 34 points. Take away the Berwick Rangers win because that was the cup, we would have 31 points. Dycing with death there, ie relegation.

How do other teams with new managers and new players seem to bed in quicker than they do at Hibs?

Look at Stuart Mccall for example he has probably less resources than CC does and they are doing exceptionally well.

[HibsMax]

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How do other teams with new managers and new players seem to bed in quicker than they do at Hibs?

That's a great question. Whenever I have used that as a reason it's always been at the back of my mind that other teams manage so why can't Hibs. I use it as an excuse not because it's definitely the reason but because I'm looking for a reason and it would scare the crap out of me if this is the best we can expect from our current collection of players.

The NFL is arguably a more complicated game than "soccer" (IMO) because of all the schemes they play on defence, offence and special teams. The coach or QB makes a call and EVERYONE on the team has to know what they are doing. If one player screws up, it's a busted play. It could be the offensive line doesn't protect the QB and he's sacked or hurried. The receiver could run the wrong route. There are many things that could wrong. Now if a player can join a new team and learn the playbook well enough to not blow plays, how can't "soccer" players do the same thing? I know that "soccer" and NFL are different - "soccer" is a more fluid game with practically unlimited possibilities. NFL is more structured than that but unplanned things can and do happen. So while I say that the players need time to gel, I still think that there is a lot more they could be doing better. I don't know whose fault that is though. Either they are being poorly coached or they don't learn quickly enough. But I'm still giving them more time because I have to. I've given Hibs time up until now, I'm not going to lose my bottle at this stage. If we're still in the doldrums at Christmas, I will be singing a different tune because everyone has their limit.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Look at Stuart Mccall for example he has probably less resources than CC does and they are doing exceptionally well.

I think we have a support who'd prefer us to wait for any success we should get, there's nothing like having a little patience as little Gary Barlow once said.

Motherwell must be devastated they dont have to wait for their team to gel, imagine having a manager managing someone elses players, and getting them results. What the hell does M'Call think he's playing at?

[skipster7]

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Bill Leckie in the Sun says today "Under Colin Calderwood Hibs are a shambles."


Read on http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...rnian-0br.html

he also said in another piece about harry potter "hes got rid of the trouble makers and bad influences from the squad !" cant stand leckie he changes like the wind.what he should have said is guys with actual talent like faddy and fletch are surplus to potter for guys like mikail ? smith despite drooling over faddy in his column for years.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I think we have a support who'd prefer us to wait for any success we should get, there's nothing like having a little patience as little Gary Barlow once said.

Motherwell must be devastated they dont have to wait for their team to gel, imagine having a manager managing someone elses players, and getting them results. What the hell does M'Call think he's playing at?

I think it shows our superiority to Motherwell fans that we're prepared to suffer constant defeats from mediocre teams while playing dull hoofball with no real sign of any game plan for improvement.

Give me that anytime before the fool's paradise of playing decent football and winning games against poor teams in one of Europe's worst leagues.

It will come back to haunt them, this points on the board nonsense - mark my words.

[--------]

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I think we have a support who'd prefer us to wait for any success we should get, there's nothing like having a little patience as little Gary Barlow once said.

Motherwell must be devastated they dont have to wait for their team to gel, imagine having a manager managing someone elses players, and getting them results. What the hell does M'Call think he's playing at?

I was once told, bh, that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

It's also sometimes the only way to adequately express one's feelings. I agree with you 100%.


Petrie got lucky - VERY lucky - when he signed Mowbray. Since then, two questions have become more and more pressing - how much does Petrie interfere in what would usually be considered the team manager's domain? And how well does he (and the owner and board as well, IMO) back the managers they appoint - financially and morally? Does the Hibs manager have a reasonable transfer budget? And (more important, I think) can he be sure he has the unequivocal backing of RP and the board in regard to the way he does his job? And if he does, are the players convinced that he does?


IMO we have the resources to be doing a lot better than we are.

I do NOT like it when players start giving quotes to the press about what a great guy the boss is, and how much they're enjoying working under him, as Ian Murray and others at ER have done recently. THAT smells of *****.

I do NOT like it when the owner really doesn't seem to care about what's going on at the club - the revolving door to the manager's office, the massive turnover in players, the team's total inability to convince the fans (who, by the way, DO know something about the game - you can't help learning about the dark side of football watching Hibs for 45 years or so) that they (the players) really care about winning games for the fans who pay their wages.

I do NOT like it when one person at the club - guess who? - seems to be Teflon-coated and untouchable regardless of what he decides or how his decisions turn out.

I'm thinking of taking a drive over to Fir Park next home game - see if I can work out what's going wrong there.


In the meantime, could we perhaps get rid of THIS >>>>> :cgwa?

At least until it begins to mean something?

[hibs0666]

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Look at Stuart Mccall for example he has probably less resources than CC does and they are doing exceptionally well.

Craig Brown's done brilliantly at Aberdeen too.

[Phil MaGlass]

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Bill Leckie in the Sun says today "Under Colin Calderwood Hibs are a shambles."

Read on http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...rnian-0br.html

surprised Booth doesnt get it tight in that report.

[Speedway]

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I think we have a support who'd prefer us to wait for any success we should get, there's nothing like having a little patience as little Gary Barlow once said.

Motherwell must be devastated they dont have to wait for their team to gel, imagine having a manager managing someone elses players, and getting them results. What the hell does M'Call think he's playing at?

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surprised Booth doesnt get it tight in that report.

He does. He gets it for not tracking Hammil for the cross for the opening goal.

[Stevie Reid]

Whilst their blind faith in Calderwood is admirable to a point (I don't mean that in an insulting way, it can be nothing other than blind faith due to the fact that we have made NO progress under him), one of the most infuriating things to read on this board is that people are some how being selective in their use of statistics to castigate CC - 38 games is his ENTIRE record, there's nothing selective about it. In fact, the only selective use of statistics was used by Petrie in a statement that looks more stupid with every passing game.

As for claiming that last season is finished and things are reset, such allowances were made for no other manager, and certainly not our last, who was pilloried for our terrible home record stretching back into the previous season (whilst ignoring the fact that we took 7 points from 9 from away league games against top 6 opposition over the end of one season/start of the other).

But let's ignore being fair to other managers for a minute - most importantly, how the **** is any supporter who went to ER last season supposed to just forget how awful we were? The shocking performances and defeats towards the end of last season were defended by many as being experimental and in the name of progress - yet now we've lost 4 out of 5 league games, we're told just to forget last season, the defeats this season are in the name of progress. So I will ask - WHERE have we progressed? And please don't tell me we have made good signings, this seems to have been the case with everyone except Mixu, yet the reality turned out somewhat differently. Good players poorly managed was the belief of many (myself included) under Mixu and Yogi, which was eventually revised to crap players poorly managed. Where are we now? New players poorly managed is the only thing I can say, time will tell if they are good or not, though perhaps not if CC cannot utilise them properly.

If Mowbray, JC, Mixu or Yogi had that record after their first 38 games, they would have been emptied - the belief now seems to be that we should stick with CC for longer, purely because we haven't done it with our previous 3 managers. Unfortunately they are applying the policy to someone who is clearly the wrong man, there is nothing in our make up that is better than under our previous managers, we are worse in EVERY department. Why on earth people will think we will just suddenly improve the longer he is here is beyond me - such belief may turn out to be merited if we can undergo what will have to be an unbelievably dramatic transformation over the next month. I just can't see any way that it will happen.

The comparisons to Jim Duffy's disastrous reign in terms of defeats and the board being willing to stick by him are terrifying, quite frankly - the only difference is that the appointment of McLeish saw enough improvement for the fans to believe that we would get back into the SPL quickly, we bought into the positive effect that he had an were willing to support Hibs in great numbers through the tough times that followed our relegation. There will be no such desire this time, I feel - many will be driven away never to come back. This is a pivotal time in our club's history, we can only hope that the board's faith is rewarded, despite all the evidence - but a poor performance and defeat against Aberdeen will cause furious scenes at ER IMO.

[Andy74]

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Whilst their blind faith in Calderwood is admirable to a point (I don't mean that in an insulting way, it can be nothing other than blind faith due to the fact that we have made NO progress under him), one of the most infuriating things to read on this board is that people are some how being selective in their use of statistics to castigate CC - 38 games is his ENTIRE record, there's nothing selective about it. As for claiming that last season is finished and things are reset, such allowances were made for no other manager, and certainly not our last, who was pilloried for our terrible home record stretching back into the previous season (whilst ignoring the fact that we took 7 points from 9 from away league games against top 6 opposition over the end of one season/start of the other).

But let's ignore being fair to other managers for a minute - most importantly, how the **** is any supporter who went to ER last season supposed to just forget how awful we were? The shocking performances and defeats towards the end of last season were defended by many as being experimental and in the name of progress - yet now we've lost 4 out of 5 league games, we're told just to forget last season, the defeats this season are in the name of progress. So I will ask - WHERE have we progressed? And please don't tell me we have made good signings, this seems to have been the case with everyone except Mixu, yet the reality turned out somewhat differently. Good players poorly managed was the belief of many (myself included) under Mixu and Yogi, which was eventually revised to crap players poorly managed. Where are we now? New players poorly managed is the only thing I can say, time will tell if they are good or not, though perhaps not if CC cannot utilise them properly.

If Mowbray, JC, Mixu or Yogi had that record after their first 38 games, they would have been emptied - the belief now seems to be that we should stick with CC for longer, purely because we haven't done it with our previous 3 managers. Unfortunately they are applying the policy to someone who is clearly the wrong man, there is nothing in our make up that is better than under our previous managers, we are worse in EVERY department. Why on earth people will think we will just suddenly improve the longer he is here is beyond me - such belief may turn out to be merited if we can undergo what will have to be an unbelievably dramatic transformation over the next month. I just can't see any way that it will happen.

The comparisons to Jim Duffy's disastrous reign in terms of defeats and the board being willing to stick by him are terrifying, quite frankly - the only difference is that the appointment of McLeish saw enough improvement for the fans to believe that we would get back into the SPL quickly, we bought into the positive effect that he had an were willing to support Hibs in great numbers through the tough times that followed our relegation. There will be no such desire this time, I feel - many will be driven away never to come back. This is a pivotal time in our club's history, we can only hope that the board's faith is rewarded, despite all the evidence - but a poor performance and defeat against Aberdeen will cause furious scenes at ER IMO.

Yep, that sums it up nicely. I too would like to know why most seem to have picked this guy as the one they are prepared to give time to. I don't think we can say his signings have been better as they aren't wining games.

Put it this way i'd rather we were playing the next game with this team:

Stack

Wotherspoon
Bamba
Hogg
Murray

Zemmama
Miller
McBride
Riordan

Stokes
Nish

[--------]

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Whilst their blind faith in Calderwood is admirable to a point (I don't mean that in an insulting way, it can be nothing other than blind faith due to the fact that we have made NO progress under him), one of the most infuriating things to read on this board is that people are some how being selective in their use of statistics to castigate CC - 38 games is his ENTIRE record, there's nothing selective about it. In fact, the only selective use of statistics was used by Petrie in a statement that looks more stupid with every passing game.

As for claiming that last season is finished and things are reset, such allowances were made for no other manager, and certainly not our last, who was pilloried for our terrible home record stretching back into the previous season (whilst ignoring the fact that we took 7 points from 9 from away league games against top 6 opposition over the end of one season/start of the other).

But let's ignore being fair to other managers for a minute - most importantly, how the **** is any supporter who went to ER last season supposed to just forget how awful we were? The shocking performances and defeats towards the end of last season were defended by many as being experimental and in the name of progress - yet now we've lost 4 out of 5 league games, we're told just to forget last season, the defeats this season are in the name of progress. So I will ask - WHERE have we progressed? And please don't tell me we have made good signings, this seems to have been the case with everyone except Mixu, yet the reality turned out somewhat differently. Good players poorly managed was the belief of many (myself included) under Mixu and Yogi, which was eventually revised to crap players poorly managed. Where are we now? New players poorly managed is the only thing I can say, time will tell if they are good or not, though perhaps not if CC cannot utilise them properly.

If Mowbray, JC, Mixu or Yogi had that record after their first 38 games, they would have been emptied - the belief now seems to be that we should stick with CC for longer, purely because we haven't done it with our previous 3 managers. Unfortunately they are applying the policy to someone who is clearly the wrong man, there is nothing in our make up that is better than under our previous managers, we are worse in EVERY department. Why on earth people will think we will just suddenly improve the longer he is here is beyond me - such belief may turn out to be merited if we can undergo what will have to be an unbelievably dramatic transformation over the next month. I just can't see any way that it will happen.

The comparisons to Jim Duffy's disastrous reign in terms of defeats and the board being willing to stick by him are terrifying, quite frankly - the only difference is that the appointment of McLeish saw enough improvement for the fans to believe that we would get back into the SPL quickly, we bought into the positive effect that he had an were willing to support Hibs in great numbers through the tough times that followed our relegation. There will be no such desire this time, I feel - many will be driven away never to come back. This is a pivotal time in our club's history, we can only hope that the board's faith is rewarded, despite all the evidence - but a poor performance and defeat against Aberdeen will cause furious scenes at ER IMO.

First-class post.

And the fury should be aimed at more people than just Calderwood.

[Stevie Reid]

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First-class post.

And the fury should be aimed at more people than just Calderwood.

Sadly, I now agree - this despite me being a big supporter of the work the board have done over the years. The decision to stick by Calderwood (never mind appointing him in the first place) may well be Petrie's legacy, not any of the really good work he has overseen.

[weonlywon6-2]

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38 games in charge, well that's a season, so that would give us 34 points. Take away the Berwick Rangers win because that was the cup, we would have 31 points. Dycing with death there, ie relegation.

How do other teams with new managers and new players seem to bed in quicker than they do at Hibs?

this is what i have been saying all along

i just think hes crap,end off!

[bawheid]

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Sadly, I now agree - this despite me being a big supporter of the work the board have done over the years. The decision to stick by Calderwood (never mind appointing him in the first place) may well be Petrie's legacy, not any of the really good work he has overseen.

Good posts on this thread SR, and you quite rightly bemoan the lack of progress under Calderwood since he took over.

However, we have not made any progress since March 2007 no matter who the manager or players have been. This malaise started with the player revolt and has continued since then. Who was to blame for that has been debated often enough, but no matter, it was a cataclysmic event in our recent timeline. It switched the control at the club from the managers to the players, and we've never recovered.

Somebody, anybody, needs to be given some time to try and sort it out. I would have given Mixu the time. I would have given Hughes the time. I would definitely give someone with the track record (as player and manager) of Colin Calderwood the time.

His record is dreadful so far, granted. There's no getting away from it. He needs a string of wins throughout September and October. I really hope he gets that time because starting AGAIN with another manager (who?) doesn't bear thinking about.

[Stevie Reid]

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Good posts on this thread SR, and you quite rightly bemoan the lack of progress under Calderwood since he took over.

However, we have not made any progress since March 2007 no matter who the manager or players have been. This malaise started with the player revolt and has continued since then. Who was to blame for that has been debated often enough, but no matter, it was a cataclysmic event in our recent timeline. It switched the control at the club from the managers to the players, and we've never recovered.

Somebody, anybody, needs to be given some time to try and sort it out. I would have given Mixu the time. I would have given Hughes the time. I would definitely give someone with the track record (as player and manager) of Colin Calderwood the time.

His record is dreadful so far, granted. There's no getting away from it. He needs a string of wins throughout September and October. I really hope he gets that time because starting AGAIN with another manager (who?) doesn't bear thinking about.

I did say on another thread recently that I think the JC revolt is probably the one event that has defined the last four years at ER, fully agree there.

[Cropley10]

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Good posts on this thread SR, and you quite rightly bemoan the lack of progress under Calderwood since he took over.

However, we have not made any progress since March 2007 no matter who the manager or players have been. This malaise started with the player revolt and has continued since then. Who was to blame for that has been debated often enough, but no matter, it was a cataclysmic event in our recent timeline. It switched the control at the club from the managers to the players, and we've never recovered.

Somebody, anybody, needs to be given some time to try and sort it out. I would have given Mixu the time. I would have given Hughes the time. I would definitely give someone with the track record (as player and manager) of Colin Calderwood the time.

His record is dreadful so far, granted. There's no getting away from it. He needs a string of wins throughout September and October. I really hope he gets that time because starting AGAIN with another manager (who?) doesn't bear thinking about.

damned if we do, damned if we don't...

No-one on this thread has mentioned Killie - lost their best players to Hearts - far less resources than us we're told, but don't appear to have missed a beat, or are certainly gelling much more quickly. St Mirren again have done well, quickly and they've got TC as #2 FFS!

We seem to have hired - on the whole - more journeymen, some of whom have questionable fitness records or appetite for the game.

[TrickyNicky]

I suppose if Calderwood goes, we won't get any money for him, he might even get a little payout and move back down south and take up an assistants job.

Pyramid scheme folk ken whit's gaun oan likes !!

[blackpoolhibs]

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Yep, that sums it up nicely. I too would like to know why most seem to have picked this guy as the one they are prepared to give time to. I don't think we can say his signings have been better as they aren't wining games.

Put it this way i'd rather we were playing the next game with this team:

Stack

Wotherspoon
Bamba
Hogg
Murray

Zemmama
Miller
McBride
Riordan

Stokes
Nish

100% spot on, Calderwoods first 11, whatever he deemed fit enough or good enough, and we know that could be different. Whatever 11 he picks are nowhere near as good as that team. And some folk seem to think we have progressed? Where, just where?

And Hughes side has Nish and Murray in it.

[Mikey]

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Pyramid scheme folk ken whit's gaun oan likes !!

[IWasThere2016]

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Put it this way i'd rather we were playing the next game with this team:

Stack

Wotherspoon
Bamba
Hogg
Murray

Zemmama
Miller
McBride
Riordan

Stokes
Nish

I'd rather have Stack; Whittaker, Bamba, Jones, Murphy; Brown, Thomson; Riordan; O'Connor, Stokes, Fletcher in a "all for goals and glory" 4-2-4

However, we "needed" a new stand for no reason, and a training facility we havent put to good use!

[Franck is God]

I'm not going to defend his record because as pointed out it is not good.

However what I will say is that he was employed by Hibs to do a job that was always likely to take at least 18 months to two years.

His first job was to ensure we had a squad capable of steering well clear of relegation which he did.

His second job was the biggest overhaul of the playing squad that I'm sure any of us have ever seen at ER which he did.

His third job was to build a squad/team to get into the top six this season and challenge for the euro places, the final players to complete the squad arrived last Friday & Saturday, we won't know the answer to that until next May.

By the time our next home game comes along he will have pretty much every player fully fit and available to him, its now time for him to put the side on the pitch that will bring us some relative success this season but he has to be given the chance to do it.

For me the time to judge is after we've played everyone home and away, if we are still struggling at the wrong end of the table then fair enough it might be time to look elsewhere but until then I see no need to make any conclusions on how our season might turn out.

[Albion Hibs]

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Yep, that sums it up nicely. I too would like to know why most seem to have picked this guy as the one they are prepared to give time to. I don't think we can say his signings have been better as they aren't wining games.

Put it this way i'd rather we were playing the next game with this team:

Stack

Wotherspoon
Bamba
Hogg
Murray

Zemmama
Miller
McBride
Riordan

Stokes
Nish

I am sure that CC would probably have liked the players in bold to, but there were sold, something he cant do anything about, and he wont have even met Stokes as he was long go to Celtic by the time CC arrived.

The players from the above that are therefore no longer there would be;

Miller
McBride
Riordan
Nish
Hogg

Nish and Hogg were hounded out by the fans as much as anything else, McBride was described by some to have found his level when he went to Raith, plenty even turned on Riordan for what he was giving to the team. Out of the above Miller is the only one that would walk into the current team IMO.

The record is not good, but out of interest how many games where lost before the 1st transfer window CC had? and then how many prior to the end of that window when we was able to bring in some players to help avoid the much dicussed relegation last season?

In any event it is getting back into the merits of assessing the current manager against the old managers team, the current points for this season against a combination of last. Simple for me, this season has not started the best, mostly to do with the fact that only three players from your preferred starting 11 are still at the club, there is no way you can debate that having to change so much has had an effect. Some of our new players came in working off injury, others took injury during there first 45 mins of football, and some beyond that are just coming back or arrived at the club on Friday past.

I am not judging CC on last season, doing that is for one purpose and one purpose only. Almost everyone on here wanted an entire new team - well we got it. Why not judge the man on the team he has pulled together that the fans so desperatly wanted?

[patlowe]

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However, we have not made any progress since March 2007 no matter who the manager or players have been

Dead right, we've been absolutely diabolical for a LONG time. Terrible. Brutal. It's not like the managers over the past few years haven't been given money to spend, they've had more than Mowbray and more than the majority of SPL managers for that matter. Something is seriously wrong at the club. When you consider that we've increased the player budget, finished off the stadium and built a training ground in this period, we should be riding the crest of a wave and leaving the other non-OF clubs in our wake. But no, we are an absolute shambles. I've got very little faith in Colin Calderwood but there's nothing to suggest that changing the manager will help alleviate the issues we seem to have at our club.

[Cropley10]

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I am sure that CC would probably have liked the players in bold to, but there were sold, something he cant do anything about, and he wont have even met Stokes as he was long go to Celtic by the time CC arrived.

The players from the above that are therefore no longer there would be;

Miller
McBride
Riordan
Nish
Hogg

Nish and Hogg were hounded out by the fans as much as anything else, McBride was described by some to have found his level when he went to Raith, plenty even turned on Riordan for what he was giving to the team. Out of the above Miller is the only one that would walk into the current team IMO.

The record is not good, but out of interest how many games where lost before the 1st transfer window CC had? and then how many prior to the end of that window when we was able to bring in some players to help avoid the much dicussed relegation last season?

In any event it is getting back into the merits of assessing the current manager against the old managers team, the current points for this season against a combination of last. Simple for me, this season has not started the best, mostly to do with the fact that only three players from your preferred starting 11 are still at the club, there is no way you can debate that having to change so much has had an effect. Some of our new players came in working off injury, others took injury during there first 45 mins of football, and some beyond that are just coming back or arrived at the club on Friday past.

I am not judging CC on last season, doing that is for one purpose and one purpose only. Almost everyone on here wanted an entire new team - well we got it. Why not judge the man on the team he has pulled together that the fans so desperatly wanted?

Indeed. Question is - and it's a big one - how long can this team go on getting beat and getting beat easy, with no improvement in performance either by individuals or the team as a whole?

[Speedway]

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Indeed. Question is - and it's a big one - how long can this team go on getting beat and getting beat easy, with no improvement in performance either by individuals or the team as a whole?

All season.