We Need A Restoration Of Pride

[smurf]

I looked down on that wonderful stadium of ours yesterday from up Arthur's Seat with real pride. On the landmark of our great city it certainly looks far more impressive than say the Scottish Parliament. Up there i looked around our magnificent capital city and thought of all the people enjoying their Sunday with Hibby's all over building up to the new season ahead kicking off in a weeks time. Many would be sitting reading the pundits in the Sunday's with IMHO some justification writing off our season before a ball has yet been kicked...

And i thought of the growing and influential voices within our ranks that are actively discouraging honesty in terms of our frustrations felt on where our football club and in particular our football team are. I thought about our hopes and aspirations as a support. Are we really looking for too much in terms of our team on that famous park?

We all know and pretty much accept it as a given, that we've absolutely no chance whatsoever of competing for, let alone winning, the league competition we are just about to embark upon.

So realism there...

But what we also know and won't accept, with complete justification, is underachievement to the extent we experienced last season. You see because last season IMHO we were cheated by our club. THAT disgraceful performance by our team in CC's second game against The Yams quite rightly disgusted us. The lack of desire was horrific. In many ways THAT 'performance' summed us up last season even more so than the TWO pathetic attempts v Ayr United.

We can (and at times with justification) debate the many merits or not of the many individual areas of our football club. "It's not the board, it's the manager" and "It's not the manager, it's the players". And the support too appears to be becoming from certain quarters under ever increasing scrutiny. "Not enough are buying season tickets." and "Too many are negative." etc etc.

Regardless to all the debate IMHO it's ultimately all one big chain. And we are all cogs within that. We all need each other and without the link to the next we are nothing. It's my opinion however that somebody ultimately needs to cycle that chain. And at Easter Road as it should be at any football club it is very much the Board of Directors riding the bicycle. One part of criticism that can't be put to our board is that they are not in control at Easter Road. They absolutely are.

This post isn't intended to be a criticism of the board. However, there can be no escaping IMHO that the ultimate responsibility for us being cheated last season falls at the folk cycling the bike. Many see it differently of course. After all it wasn't Rod Petrie who signed Michael Hart etc etc. True but who interviewed and conducted a selection process that appointed the guy who did sign Michael Hart? For as long as there isn't somebody to take ultimate responsibility then you can forget accountability. Just think Edinburgh Trams...

IMO pride is a big part of the make-up of Hibs. A big part in what being a Hibby is all about. Pride in our remarkable story of being formed in Little Ireland. Pride in Hibernian FC raising money for worthwhile charities all over Scotland. Pride in our club being reformed on a totally non-sectarian basis. Pride in our wonderful post war Famous Five forward line. Pride in being invited as a result to represent Scotland in the first ever European competition. Pride in being proud ambassadors for our club all over Europe in subsequent years. Pride in going to first foot our neighbours 1st January 1973 and hammering them 0-7. Pride in Georgie Best playing for The Hibs. Pride in defeating Mercer and his vision of what was good for Scottish Football. Pride in putting on the park wonderful home produced talent and winning a national cup 5-1 at Hampden.

We are a proud lot. And with much to be proud about. I read many years ago someone said "The Hearts fans like their club. Hibby's love theirs".

In the last few years for a whole list of reasons i think we've had our pride slightly battered. There's anger, frustration and ultimately upset as a result. Yes some of it may very well be perpetuated as a result of forums. But i reject the suggestion that it is generated by it.

IMHO this pre season has thus far not restored the pride. For all the obvious and well debated reasons it has increased the sense of battered pride. Example being many of us feel uncomfortable with the club we love being managed by a guy who appears to not want to be here.

There is a feeling of anxiety of a repitition of last season this. A real fear of that IMHO.

What that wonderful football ground needs i thought as i looked down is a restoration of pride. For us all to feel good about our club again. Yes we've never stopped loving it but too many have been made to feel (for many reasons) that they've stopped identifying with it (and trying to supress honest felt opinions however 'negative' or 'bedwetting' won't solve that).

We know we can't win every game. I think we kind of accept we may very well lose a lot more games than we would like. But what we really want is to just feel proud of our club again.

And again i'm just not at this moment in time hopeful.

I hope very much to be wrong. GGTTH Season 2011-2012.

[matty_f]

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I looked down on that wonderful stadium of ours yesterday from up Arthur's Seat with real pride. On the landmark of our great city it certainly looks far more impressive than say the Scottish Parliament. Up there i looked around our magnificent capital city and thought of all the people enjoying their Sunday with Hibby's all over building up to the new season ahead kicking off in a weeks time. Many would be sitting reading the pundits in the Sunday's with IMHO some justification writing off our season before a ball has yet been kicked...

And i thought of the growing and influential voices within our ranks that are actively discouraging honesty in terms of our frustrations felt on where our football club and in particular our football team are. I thought about our hopes and aspirations as a support. Are we really looking for too much in terms of our team on that famous park?

We all know and pretty much accept it as a given, that we've absolutely no chance whatsoever of competing for, let alone winning, the league competition we are just about to embark upon.

So realism there...

But what we also know and won't accept, with complete justification, is underachievement to the extent we experienced last season. You see because last season IMHO we were cheated by our club. THAT disgraceful performance by our team in CC's second game against The Yams quite rightly disgusted us. The lack of desire was horrific. In many ways THAT 'performance' summed us up last season even more so than the TWO pathetic attempts v Ayr United.

We can (and at times with justification) debate the many merits or not of the many individual areas of our football club. "It's not the board, it's the manager" and "It's not the manager, it's the players". And the support too appears to be becoming from certain quarters under ever increasing scrutiny. "Not enough are buying season tickets." and "Too many are negative." etc etc.

Regardless to all the debate IMHO it's ultimately all one big chain. And we are all cogs within that. We all need each other and without the link to the next we are nothing. It's my opinion however that somebody ultimately needs to cycle that chain. And at Easter Road as it should be at any football club it is very much the Board of Directors riding the bicycle. One part of criticism that can't be put to our board is that they are not in control at Easter Road. They absolutely are.

This post isn't intended to be a criticism of the board. However, there can be no escaping IMHO that the ultimate responsibility for us being cheated last season falls at the folk cycling the bike. Many see it differently of course. After all it wasn't Rod Petrie who signed Michael Hart etc etc. True but who interviewed and conducted a selection process that appointed the guy who did sign Michael Hart? For as long as there isn't somebody to take ultimate responsibility then you can forget accountability. Just think Edinburgh Trams...

IMO pride is a big part of the make-up of Hibs. A big part in what being a Hibby is all about. Pride in our remarkable story of being formed in Little Ireland. Pride in Hibernian FC raising money for worthwhile charities all over Scotland. Pride in our club being reformed on a totally non-sectarian basis. Pride in our wonderful post war Famous Five forward line. Pride in being invited as a result to represent Scotland in the first ever European competition. Pride in being proud ambassadors for our club all over Europe in subsequent years. Pride in going to first foot our neighbours 1st January 1973 and hammering them 0-7. Pride in Georgie Best playing for The Hibs. Pride in defeating Mercer and his vision of what was good for Scottish Football. Pride in putting on the park wonderful home produced talent and winning a national cup 5-1 at Hampden.

We are a proud lot. And with much to be proud about. I read many years ago someone said "The Hearts fans like their club. Hibby's love theirs".

In the last few years for a whole list of reasons i think we've had our pride slightly battered. There's anger, frustration and ultimately upset as a result. Yes some of it may very well be perpetuated as a result of forums. But i reject the suggestion that it is generated by it.

IMHO this pre season has thus far not restored the pride. For all the obvious and well debated reasons it has increased the sense of battered pride. Example being many of us feel uncomfortable with the club we love being managed by a guy who appears to not want to be here.

There is a feeling of anxiety of a repitition of last season this. A real fear of that IMHO.

What that wonderful football ground needs i thought as i looked down is a restoration of pride. For us all to feel good about our club again. Yes we've never stopped loving it but too many have been made to feel (for many reasons) that they've stopped identifying with it (and trying to supress honest felt opinions however 'negative' or 'bedwetting' won't solve that).

We know we can't win every game. I think we kind of accept we may very well lose a lot more games than we would like. But what we really want is to just feel proud of our club again.

And again i'm just not at this moment in time hopeful.

I hope very much to be wrong. GGTTH Season 2011-2012.

Reasonable post absolutely ruined by the accusation of people trying to suppress your views - it's called disagreeing, and when you post something on a forum (often over and over again), then people are well within their rights to shoot it down and disagree. That's not suppression, that's debate.
Also, folk take you less seriously when you post things that are not true.

[smurf]

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Reasonable post absolutely ruined by the accusation of people trying to suppress your views - it's called disagreeing, and when you post something on a forum (often over and over again), then people are well within their rights to shoot it down and disagree. That's not suppression, that's debate.
Also, folk take you less seriously when you post things that are not true.

If i reply to this am i trolling? I am disappointed that on this thread you've chosen to raise other issues.

I've never once ever on here or elsewhere posted something i know not to be true.

IMHO there are attempts to discourage folk from posting criticism of the board and indeed that of CC. I don't see how that can be called 'debate'.

[KWJ]

Glory Glory to the Hibees

[Viva_Palmeiras]

But when pride is hurt have we not shown we can come out fighting? You mention Mercer - well here's hoping for a rally against those writing us off. I suggested toungue in cheek re CC will he wont he that it was Petries way of creating a siege mentality. Why shouldn't Hibs use the frustration to do just that?I think the problem is we've been desperately yearning for a new era which has yet to materialise so come on lads lets create a new chapter in our history for all the right reasons and put the critics in their place!

[matty_f]

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If i reply to this am i trolling? I am disappointed that on this thread you've chosen to raise other issues.I've never once ever on here or elsewhere posted something i know not to be true.IMHO there are attempts to discourage folk from posting criticism of the board and indeed that of CC. I don't see how that can be called 'debate'.

Read the forums, there are countless posts criticizing practically all aspects of the club. Nobody is being censored here so long as what they post is within the rules of the forum.What you're facing, smurf, is opposition to your views. Pure and simple. Hibs.net exists for the main purpose of providing hibs supporters a forum to discuss a common love- hibs.For both good points and bad. It's run by hibs fans who, like you, want what is best for the club.For every post you could point to disagreeing with your point of view, there is at least one shouting down the disagreement. The problem you have is that some posters don't allow what they consider drivel and mis-information to go unchecked. They'll consistently counter your points, the same as you do theirs. Surely you can see the irony in labelling their point of view as some sinister attempt to shut up a dissenter. Isn't that just a poor attempt to dismiss the arguments and create suspicions of some kind of bizarre agenda? You are the one driving that agenda!If you post, people will agree and others will disagree. People won't just say 'oh it's smurf, I debated this point already on another thread, I'll let him have this one.' They'll keep disagreeing. Get over it.

[degenerated]

Bit of a cheek complaining about people discouraging honesty after your tales of the barely credible about chris hughton

[smurf]

Matty I suspect you are trying to steer me down a particular road I'm not going to go down.... it wasn't the intention or purpose of the OP.

I am not at all suggesting that there is some kind of agreed coordinated agenda to 'get any critical types'.

My OP did mention in a small part an opinion that I do hold of folk getting a 'oh here we go again...' response to anything supposedly critical. I feel at times criticisms are almost ridiculed and that was my point.

Also for example folk who can on occasion be critical like myself have their views misrepresented....

Can't remember who but last week on here someone said I call for RP's head at every available opportunity. I asked that very poster as I did apparently so often could they give me any proof of that and as far as I'm aware (I should check) no response or examples were given.

And I do find it frustrating that if you are at times critical you are dismissed as having an agenda etc etc. Apparently I hate RP etc etc. All absolute nonsense..

I speak to a lot of Hibbys not on here or anywhere in the world of hibs forums. And if anything there is stronger hostility towards the board. I hear "...we've no debt and Petrie is keeping all the money..." etc etc. I find myself explaining we actually do have debt and Petrie isn't keeping all the money!

[Speedway]

Smurf, go and make an appointment with Fife to discuss this. Do you want his number?

[matty_f]

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Matty I suspect you are trying to steer me down a particular road I'm not going to go down.... it wasn't the intention or purpose of the OP.

I am not at all suggesting that there is some kind of agreed coordinated agenda to 'get any critical types'.

My OP did mention in a small part an opinion that I do hold of folk getting a 'oh here we go again...' response to anything supposedly critical. I feel at times criticisms are almost ridiculed and that was my point.

Also for example folk who can on occasion be critical like myself have their views misrepresented....

Can't remember who but last week on here someone said I call for RP's head at every available opportunity. I asked that very poster as I did apparently so often could they give me any proof of that and as far as I'm aware (I should check) no response or examples were given.

And I do find it frustrating that if you are at times critical you are dismissed as having an agenda etc etc. Apparently I hate RP etc etc. All absolute nonsense..

I speak to a lot of Hibbys not on here or anywhere in the world of hibs forums. And if anything there is stronger hostility towards the board. I hear "...we've no debt and Petrie is keeping all the money..." etc etc. I find myself explaining we actually do have debt and Petrie isn't keeping all the money!

I'm not trying to steer you down any road, Smurf. I just thought the point you made about folk trying to silence the dissenters was unfair and deserved to be challenged. I stand by that.

[patlowe]

Personally I do think there is a culture of dismissiveness on this board towards those who have a "negative" view on hibs at the moment. For example, I was pretty much shot down in flames in Feb/March for expressing slight concerns that CC's 5 wins in a row could easily turn into a run of defeats, due to the poor level of player we have and the tight nature of the SPL (I was reasonably happy with CC then and I still am now BTW) . I'd say that fear was proven to be justified. This type of response from people on here, I'd imagine, could easily lead to some fans withholding their views for fear of ridicule.

On the other hand, I'd argue that you have to show a bit of conviction in your opinion on messageboards. Regardless of how people respond, every post gets the same exposure and is pored over by the same number of fans. Some posters may carry more clout than others but a semi-intelligent reader can make up their own mind based on the opinions put before them. I don't think the "culture" I speak of permeates far beyond this space.

As for pride, I think this simply comes with success. While we're languishing it's hard to feel great about the club. However, the margins are so tight at the moment in the SPL that we can be back up there no bother within the next couple of years, and when we are, the fans will no doubt get their mojo back.

[Mikey]

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I'm not trying to steer you down any road, Smurf. I just thought the point you made about folk trying to silence the dissenters was unfair and deserved to be challenged. I stand by that.

If the dissenters were being silenced they wouldn't be here. Simple as that.

They can play the "freedom of speech" card all they like. The irony being that they're allowed to play the freedom of speech card at all.

[smurf]

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Smurf, go and make an appointment with Fife to discuss this. Do you want his number?

To discuss what? A restoration of pride?

[Speedway]

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To discuss what? A restoration of pride?

The whole range of issues that you've raised over the last 12 months with relation to the club and the full proposals that you have that you'd like the club's input on to make a very real difference as part of the development of the club and it's communications with the supporters as a whole.

[Hibby D]

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Personally I do think there is a culture of dismissiveness on this board towards those who have a "negative" view on hibs at the moment. For example, I was pretty much shot down in flames in Feb/March for expressing slight concerns that CC's 5 wins in a row could easily turn into a run of defeats, due to the poor level of player we have and the tight nature of the SPL (I was reasonably happy with CC then and I still am now BTW) . I'd say that fear was proven to be justified. This type of response from people on here, I'd imagine, could easily lead to some fans withholding their views for fear of ridicule.

On the other hand, I'd argue that you have to show a bit of conviction in your opinion on messageboards. Regardless of how people respond, every post gets the same exposure and is pored over by the same number of fans. Some posters may carry more clout than others but a semi-intelligent reader can make up their own mind based on the opinions put before them. I don't think the "culture" I speak of permeates far beyond this space.

As for pride, I think this simply comes with success. While we're languishing it's hard to feel great about the club. However, the margins are so tight at the moment in the SPL that we can be back up there no bother within the next couple of years, and when we are, the fans will no doubt get their mojo back.

I agree. I've had more time than usual recently to read this and the PM board inside out, and find it quite illuminating to see those "dissenters" continually shot down in flames; ironically more often than not by the same people each time. The dissenters of the dissenting??

Personally I am grateful for the Smurf's and Blackpools of this messageboard

[BSEJVT]

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To discuss what? A restoration of pride?

Curious first post on a curious thread IMO.

I think that the OP's argument is fundamentally flawed.

People support Hibs for many different reasons and their love affair with Hibs ebbs and flows as does any other love affair.

For me I have little interest in our founding and previous charitable works or inclusiveness, I am glad we did it but if we hadnt I wouldnt be too worked up.

My love for Hibs comes from my father and family and the first time that resonates with me is my dad telling me about the famous five.

I have been a Hibby since birth and will be till I die, I am on the verge though of becoming a fan rather than a supporter as it all just seems so pointless now, this enduring inability to compete and watch decent football from either Hibs or our opponents.

Doubtless the desire to be a supporter will rekindle at some point in the future.

As in every facet of life folk have different views, mostly reasonable and held with some conviction whether rightly or wrongly.

I used to like Hibs net, but am finding it pretty hard going these days, largely because times for Hibs are tough, but especially because the site is full of drama queens who want to expose their point of view, sometimes ad nauseum and then throw their toys out the pram when it it isnt universally accepted.

I tend now only to read threads re match reports or comings and goings from the club and post seldom.

My view is if you have a point to make, make it and then be prepared for folk to agree or disagree, if it means that much to you fight your corner, but dont expect universal acclaim.

[TrickyNicky]

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Curious first post on a curious thread IMO.

I think that the OP's argument is fundmanetally flawed.

People support Hibs for many different reasons and their love affair with Hibs ebbs and flows as does any other love affair.

For me I have little interest in our founding and previous charitable works or inclusiveness, I am glad we did it but if we hadnt I wouldnt be too worked up.

My love for Hibs comes from my father and family and the first time that resonates with me is my dad telling me about the famous five.

I have been a Hibby since birth and will be till I die, I am on the verge though of becoming a fan rather than a supporter as it all just seems so pointless now, this enduring inability to compete and watch decent football from either Hibs or our opponents.

Doubtless the desire to be a supporter will rekindle at some point in the future.

As in every facet of life folk have diferent views, mostly reasonable and held with some conviction whether rightly or wrongly.

I used to like Hibs net, but am finding it pretty hard going these days, largely because times for Hibs are tough, but especially because the site is full of drama queens who want to expose their point of view, sometimes ad nauseum and then throw their toys out the pram when it it isnt universally accepted.

I tend now only to read threads re match reports or comings and goings from the club and post seldom.

My view is if you have a point to make, make it and then be prepared for folk to agree or disagree, if it means that much to you fight your corner, but dont expect universal acclaim.

Be thankful that people like you enough to disagree. I got a recently.

Trench coat mafia folk ken whit's gaun oan likes!

[matty_f]

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Curious first post on a curious thread IMO.

I think that the OP's argument is fundmanetally flawed.

People support Hibs for many different reasons and their love affair with Hibs ebbs and flows as does any other love affair.

For me I have little interest in our founding and previous charitable works or inclusiveness, I am glad we did it but if we hadnt I wouldnt be too worked up.

My love for Hibs comes from my father and family and the first time that resonates with me is my dad telling me about the famous five.

I have been a Hibby since birth and will be till I die, I am on the verge though of becoming a fan rather than a supporter as it all just seems so pointless now, this enduring inability to compete and watch decent football from either Hibs or our opponents.

Doubtless the desire to be a supporter will rekindle at some point in the future.

As in every facet of life folk have diferent views, mostly reasonable and held with some conviction whether rightly or wrongly.

I used to like Hibs net, but am finding it pretty hard going these days, largely because times for Hibs are tough, but especially because the site is full of drama queens who want to expose their point of view, sometimes ad nauseum and then throw their toys out the pram when it it isnt universally accepted.

I tend now only to read threads re match reports or comings and goings from the club and post seldom.

My view is if you have a point to make, make it and then be prepared for folk to agree or disagree, if it means that much to you fight your corner, but dont expect universal acclaim.

Excellent post, pretty much what I was trying to say, but said much better!

[Hibs12thMan]

Hibs12thMan was started by a group of ordinary Hibbies who believe that we supporters can make a big difference to the experience of supporting our team and that an improved atmosphere could have a positive impact on they way the team performs

Last season, our support gave a reasonable account of ourselves with noise and colour and learned a few "what to" and "what not to" dos along the way with flags and songs. The one thing the support didn't need to be told was to have pride in the boys in green.

With the return of Msssrs Sproule and O'Connor and impending promotion of more home grown players, we have a platform for the future - a future based on knowing what it means to pull on that green jersey and the passion of players who love this club every bit as much as we do.

The challenge for us, the supporters, is whether we are going to show courage and passion in the face of varying results. Are we going to lift our voices, wear the colours with pride and show the eleven players on the park what it means to represent Hibernian FC? Or are we going to moan at players, boo the team or walk away when the going gets tough?

Once our SPL season gets underway, let's get behind the board, manager and players and show our support. However dedicated they are, they are but mere custodians. It is us, the Hibs Support who are the permanent lifeblood of this club

WE are Hibernian FC!!

[Speedway]

Some time ago I approached Fife about an idea I had for re-claiming lost season ticket holders and bringing them back in. It was genius, I had been involved in the operations of very junior football clubs and I was convinced I had a winner.

Fife patiently listened and even more patiently explained the flaws in my plan in a gentle way so as not to expose the half baked, ignorant non-workable idea I had wasted his time and mine with. To be fair, he didn't need to. As I explained it, I realised that it was absolute raphael and I was embarrassed to have even suggested it. Going in however, I was going to show that bunch of incompentants how it should be done and ask why we were wasting money on their wages when a simple supporter like me had the answers.

We discussed a few more points about the realities of running a football club and one thing became clear to me. It looks straightforward on paper but in reality, Speedway knows **** all about running a football club and it's relationship with supporters, absolutely **** all.

So, by going to see someone like Fife who runs an open door policy on matchdays if you book early, you'll either give the club it's breakthrough innovations or you'll find out a lot about things you never knew, considered or realised about running a club like Hibs, but either way you'll feel a helluva lot less 'cheated' by board members, players and managers alike and how little you know about how to get even the basics right.

If there's anyone who could do better running Hibs that posts on here, I've yet to read them in my 14-ish years of being here. That's not to claim the board are immune from criticism and scrutiny, but that the criticism and scrutiny better be well informed and well rounded, which it never is. Here it is always knee jerk, prejudice and reactionary...which connects this post nicely to its standard sig below.

[matty_f]

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Personally I do think there is a culture of dismissiveness on this board towards those who have a "negative" view on hibs at the moment. For example, I was pretty much shot down in flames in Feb/March for expressing slight concerns that CC's 5 wins in a row could easily turn into a run of defeats, due to the poor level of player we have and the tight nature of the SPL (I was reasonably happy with CC then and I still am now BTW) . I'd say that fear was proven to be justified. This type of response from people on here, I'd imagine, could easily lead to some fans withholding their views for fear of ridicule.

On the other hand, I'd argue that you have to show a bit of conviction in your opinion on messageboards. Regardless of how people respond, every post gets the same exposure and is pored over by the same number of fans. Some posters may carry more clout than others but a semi-intelligent reader can make up their own mind based on the opinions put before them. I don't think the "culture" I speak of permeates far beyond this space.

As for pride, I think this simply comes with success. While we're languishing it's hard to feel great about the club. However, the margins are so tight at the moment in the SPL that we can be back up there no bother within the next couple of years, and when we are, the fans will no doubt get their mojo back.

Re: the bit in bold.

I think folk are more likely to be dismissive because we've had a few years of it now and folk are just getting to the point where they're worn out with it. I know I am. I think everyone can see the faults in the team and the club. I can't imagine that there are many, if any, Hibs fans that are happy with their lot just now. The question is whether we need to compound the misery by going over and over it until it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy?

I also don't think people are generally dismissive and normally argue the points back, though I accept that there are some cases where that doesn't happen.

With regards to the point about the results, I think that the reaction to the concerns at a point where we were winning was probably because folk just wanted a bit of respite and to allow for some good vibes to wash over the club and the support for a change.

That night where we beat St Mirren when it looked like we were in trouble - there was something about that night that had been missing for ages. Excitement, anxiety, relief, joy, and togetherness. The atmosphere at the ground was fantastic, not because we had folk singing for 90 minutes, but because everyone got behind the team and there was a sense that we'd win.

For many folk, that's what going to the football is all about, and it gets tiresome and wearing when it's constantly beaten out of you by post after post after post about everything that's wrong, and why we can't shift tickets, and why Scottish football is so bad, and why the stand was a bad idea, and why the training centre is bad, and why this manager or that manager is wrong, and why this player (from 1-11 and beyond at times) is a wage thief, and why the shirts are horrible, and why we need to spend more money, and why we've got no money and so on and so on.

I'm not saying that these points aren't in some way valid, my point here is that when you've heard them ad naseum for years, you just look for something positive to hold on to, for something to look forward to.

[R'Albin]

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Re: the bit in bold.

I think folk are more likely to be dismissive because we've had a few years of it now and folk are just getting to the point where they're worn out with it. I know I am. I think everyone can see the faults in the team and the club. I can't imagine that there are many, if any, Hibs fans that are happy with their lot just now. The question is whether we need to compound the misery by going over and over it until it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy?

I also don't think people are generally dismissive and normally argue the points back, though I accept that there are some cases where that doesn't happen.

With regards to the point about the results, I think that the reaction to the concerns at a point where we were winning was probably because folk just wanted a bit of respite and to allow for some good vibes to wash over the club and the support for a change.

That night where we beat St Mirren when it looked like we were in trouble - there was something about that night that had been missing for ages. Excitement, anxiety, relief, joy, and togetherness. The atmosphere at the ground was fantastic, not because we had folk singing for 90 minutes, but because everyone got behind the team and there was a sense that we'd win.

For many folk, that's what going to the football is all about, and it gets tiresome and wearing when it's constantly beaten out of you by post after post after post about everything that's wrong, and why we can't shift tickets, and why Scottish football is so bad, and why the stand was a bad idea, and why the training centre is bad, and why this manager or that manager is wrong, and why this player (from 1-11 and beyond at times) is a wage thief, and why the shirts are horrible, and why we need to spend more money, and why we've got no money and so on and so on.

I'm not saying that these points aren't in some way valid, my point here is that when you've heard them ad naseum for years, you just look for something positive to hold on to, for something to look forward to.

[Hibby D]

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Some time ago I approached Fife about an idea I had for re-claiming lost season ticket holders and bringing them back in. It was genius, I had been involved in the operations of very junior football clubs and I was convinced I had a winner.

Fife patiently listened and even more patiently explained the flaws in my plan in a gentle way so as not to expose the half baked, ignorant non-workable idea I had wasted his time and mine with. To be fair, he didn't need to. As I explained it, I realised that it was absolute raphael and I was embarrassed to have even suggested it. Going in however, I was going to show that bunch of incompentants how it should be done and ask why we were wasting money on their wages when a simple supporter like me had the answers.

We discussed a few more points about the realities of running a football club and one thing became clear to me. It looks straightforward on paper but in reality, Speedway knows **** all about running a football club and it's relationship with supporters, absolutely **** all.

So, by going to see someone like Fife who runs an open door policy on matchdays if you book early, you'll either give the club it's breakthrough innovations or you'll find out a lot about things you never knew, considered or realised about running a club like Hibs, but either way you'll feel a helluva lot less 'cheated' by board members, players and managers alike and how little you know about how to get even the basics right.

If there's anyone who could do better running Hibs that posts on here, I've yet to read them in my 14-ish years of being here. That's not to claim the board are immune from criticism and scrutiny, but that the criticism and scrutiny better be well informed and well rounded, which it never is. Here it is always knee jerk, prejudice and reactionary...which connects this post nicely to its standard sig below.

A great post speedway - I'm intrigued as to what your idea was (I promise I won't laugh ) Seriously, good for you. I'm sure for every "half-baked" idea that is proposed on here or whilst chatting post match in the pub there are very few who will pick up the mantle and take it to the club. You did and you came out of it with a far better appreciation of the board than you had beforehand. I wouldn't have the balls () to tell the club where they're going wrong (that's not to say I think they are) nor the imagination required to come up witht he solution. I'll leave that to Fife, RP and the rest of the paid employees.

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Re: the bit in bold.

I think folk are more likely to be dismissive because we've had a few years of it now and folk are just getting to the point where they're worn out with it. I know I am. I think everyone can see the faults in the team and the club. I can't imagine that there are many, if any, Hibs fans that are happy with their lot just now. The question is whether we need to compound the misery by going over and over it until it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy?

I also don't think people are generally dismissive and normally argue the points back, though I accept that there are some cases where that doesn't happen.

With regards to the point about the results, I think that the reaction to the concerns at a point where we were winning was probably because folk just wanted a bit of respite and to allow for some good vibes to wash over the club and the support for a change.

That night where we beat St Mirren when it looked like we were in trouble - there was something about that night that had been missing for ages. Excitement, anxiety, relief, joy, and togetherness. The atmosphere at the ground was fantastic, not because we had folk singing for 90 minutes, but because everyone got behind the team and there was a sense that we'd win.

For many folk, that's what going to the football is all about, and it gets tiresome and wearing when it's constantly beaten out of you by post after post after post about everything that's wrong, and why we can't shift tickets, and why Scottish football is so bad, and why the stand was a bad idea, and why the training centre is bad, and why this manager or that manager is wrong, and why this player (from 1-11 and beyond at times) is a wage thief, and why the shirts are horrible, and why we need to spend more money, and why we've got no money and so on and so on.

I'm not saying that these points aren't in some way valid, my point here is that when you've heard them ad naseum for years, you just look for something positive to hold on to, for something to look forward to.

And with all respect Matty, you are probably the most positive poster on this site. I don't know how you maintain it especially when it's as "tiresome and wearing" as you allude to above. There are times when I personally think the board, players and other staff are deserving of the many "GTF-esque" posts on here although I would agree there are times when it also wears me down (thank God for the solace of the PM forum ) a lot of the time these things really do need to be said. And it's said because that is how people feel. Fans/supporters are fed up and some of them use this forum to get their views across and yes, some more than others, but I don't believe anyone is on a deliberate crusade to bash the board at every opportunity.

Finally I think the essence of Smurf's post is spot on - we do need to collectively find/restore what appears to have been lost over the last couple of seasons. The problem for us however is that we can't all agree on what it is that's lost

[marinello59]

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A

Finally I think the essence of Smurf's post is spot on - we do need to collectively find/restore what appears to have been lost over the last couple of seasons. The problem for us however is that we can't all agree on what it is that's lost

It's simple. A run of decent results.

[matty_f]

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A great post speedway - I'm intrigued as to what your idea was (I promise I won't laugh ) Seriously, good for you. I'm sure for every "half-baked" idea that is proposed on here or whilst chatting post match in the pub there are very few who will pick up the mantle and take it to the club. You did and you came out of it with a far better appreciation of the board than you had beforehand. I wouldn't have the balls () to tell the club where they're going wrong (that's not to say I think they are) nor the imagination required to come up witht he solution. I'll leave that to Fife, RP and the rest of the paid employees.



And with all respect Matty, you are probably the most positive poster on this site. I don't know how you maintain it especially when it's as "tiresome and wearing" as you allude to above. There are times when I personally think the board, players and other staff are deserving of the many "GTF-esque" posts on here although I would agree there are times when it also wears me down (thank God for the solace of the PM forum ) a lot of the time these things really do need to be said. And it's said because that is how people feel. Fans/supporters are fed up and some of them use this forum to get their views across and yes, some more than others, but I don't believe anyone is on a deliberate crusade to bash the board at every opportunity.

Finally I think the essence of Smurf's post is spot on - we do need to collectively find/restore what appears to have been lost over the last couple of seasons. The problem for us however is that we can't all agree on what it is that's lost

I don't know whether that's a criticism or a compliment! I'm also not sure it's true. I've certainly been much more critical of the team and players over the last season (I lost count at the back end of last season of how many times I posted about not being bothered if we emptied the whole team and started over, for example).

The other point that I'd make is that I generally always try to back up my points with either an explanation of my thinking, or by pointing to some form of tangible evidence for it.

I also don't think I've accussed anyone of being on a crusade to bash the board here, and I acknowledged that there is some validity in the points and that most, if not all, Hibs fans are likely to be unhappy with things at the moment. That said, I don't know what people's motives are for some of the threads and posts which, IMHO, do nothing other than undermine what the club are trying to do.

I do think, and this is my own opinion, that the level of negative posting does have a direct impact on the club. Hand on heart, I believe that people constantly telling us how it's a waste of money, and all the rest of it, eventually leads to everyone else giving in and agreeing. It becomes more and more difficult to enjoy going to the games and talking about the team when the criticism is so relentless and so damning, and when folk who do look for positives are accussed of having their heads in the sand, or being naiive, or being a club insider or whatever.

Criticism is healthy, and nobody will improve without it. I would hate to see the day when everyone agreed on everything on here. Again, my own personal opinion is that people need to take a responsibility for the level of criticism and negativity of their posts and threads. Negativity breeds negativity, and IMHO that accounts for a large part of why we are where we are right now.

As an example of what I mean, I manage a team of people in my work. I encourage them to voice concerns and give feedback regularly. However, they have to do it in a way that doesn't impact on the overall objective of the team. Where we set a target, it only takes one person to decide they don't fancy it and start talking it down for it to spread to the rest of the team. One person can have a huge impact on the overall team, and that extends to the support. As a collective, the hibs.net population is much more influential than people will give it credit for. Even though the registered user base makes up only a small proportion of the support, and the actively posting members even less so, I know of loads of Hibs fans that regularly read without posting, and they're as influenced as the registered users by the posts.

Nobody is saying don't criticise, however when it's all that some people do, you do wonder what they actually see in the club at all.

[Stevie Reid]

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It's simple. A run of decent results.

Exactly. The last 17 months have been pretty hideous due to our late season collapse in 2009-10, and just overall horrendous season last year - it's frustrating as hell but a new season always brings new hope. A good run of form resulting in a much better season than last year should improve things significantly - here's hoping we get it.

With regards to restoring pride, and this isn't an uber fan statement by any means, I don't feel pride needs to be restored - I am, and will forever be, proud to be a Hibs supporter regardless of how poor we are and what division we are playing in. Don't get me wrong, I was utterly disgusted by many of our performances last year, have been extremely unhappy with Calderwood for much of his reign, and was absolutely appalled at the lack of fight and commitment shown by many of those playing for us - but Hibs are my club, which is much more than the players on the park and the manager in the dug out.

This is actually the kind of thread title (not criticising the OP's intentions) I may have expected to see (and there may well have been one or more, I don't read it) on Kickback recently, given how the CT episode, which had nothing to do with football, was handled so unbelievably badly by Romanov and led to Hearts (correctly) being absolutely ripped by all and sundry in a very high profile way. That is the sort of incident that I could imagine would result in a supporter losing pride in supporting their team, not the poor period of form that we've endured for the last year and a half.

[IWasThere2016]

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A great post speedway - I'm intrigued as to what your idea was (I promise I won't laugh ) Seriously, good for you. I'm sure for every "half-baked" idea that is proposed on here or whilst chatting post match in the pub there are very few who will pick up the mantle and take it to the club. You did and you came out of it with a far better appreciation of the board than you had beforehand. I wouldn't have the balls () to tell the club where they're going wrong (that's not to say I think they are) nor the imagination required to come up witht he solution. I'll leave that to Fife, RP and the rest of the paid employees.

Who are you kidding? You'd laugh ..

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And with all respect Matty, you are probably the most positive poster on this site. I don't know how you maintain it especially when it's as "tiresome and wearing" as you allude to above. There are times when I personally think the board, players and other staff are deserving of the many "GTF-esque" posts on here although I would agree there are times when it also wears me down (thank God for the solace of the PM forum ) a lot of the time these things really do need to be said. And it's said because that is how people feel. Fans/supporters are fed up and some of them use this forum to get their views across and yes, some more than others, but I don't believe anyone is on a deliberate crusade to bash the board at every opportunity

Its the drugs I reckon.

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Finally I think the essence of Smurf's post is spot on - we do need to collectively find/restore what appears to have been lost over the last couple of seasons. The problem for us however is that we can't all agree on what it is that's lost

I agree with the essence also .. a couple of decent signings before Sunday would be a great start ..

[TrickyNicky]

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Some time ago I approached Fife about an idea I had for re-claiming lost season ticket holders and bringing them back in. It was genius, I had been involved in the operations of very junior football clubs and I was convinced I had a winner.

Fife patiently listened and even more patiently explained the flaws in my plan in a gentle way so as not to expose the half baked, ignorant non-workable idea I had wasted his time and mine with. To be fair, he didn't need to. As I explained it, I realised that it was absolute raphael and I was embarrassed to have even suggested it. Going in however, I was going to show that bunch of incompentants how it should be done and ask why we were wasting money on their wages when a simple supporter like me had the answers.

We discussed a few more points about the realities of running a football club and one thing became clear to me. It looks straightforward on paper but in reality, Speedway knows **** all about running a football club and it's relationship with supporters, absolutely **** all.

So, by going to see someone like Fife who runs an open door policy on matchdays if you book early, you'll either give the club it's breakthrough innovations or you'll find out a lot about things you never knew, considered or realised about running a club like Hibs, but either way you'll feel a helluva lot less 'cheated' by board members, players and managers alike and how little you know about how to get even the basics right.

If there's anyone who could do better running Hibs that posts on here, I've yet to read them in my 14-ish years of being here. That's not to claim the board are immune from criticism and scrutiny, but that the criticism and scrutiny better be well informed and well rounded, which it never is. Here it is always knee jerk, prejudice and reactionary...which connects this post nicely to its standard sig below.

Nice post Speedway, thanks for sharing that.

[Hibby D]

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I don't know whether that's a criticism or a compliment! I'm also not sure it's true. I've certainly been much more critical of the team and players over the last season (I lost count at the back end of last season of how many times I posted about not being bothered if we emptied the whole team and started over, for example).

The other point that I'd make is that I generally always try to back up my points with either an explanation of my thinking, or by pointing to some form of tangible evidence for it.

I also don't think I've accussed anyone of being on a crusade to bash the board here, and I acknowledged that there is some validity in the points and that most, if not all, Hibs fans are likely to be unhappy with things at the moment. That said, I don't know what people's motives are for some of the threads and posts which, IMHO, do nothing other than undermine what the club are trying to do.

I really have to question this. Motives Matty? Who are you referring to? What posts? I wish Calderwood would beat it (I really really do ) and not let the door smash his erse on the way out.......am I undermining the club by saying that? I'm voicing my opinion but I am in no way trying to infuence anyone on here. I wouldn't be so cocky to assume I could!!!

I do think, and this is my own opinion, that the level of negative posting does have a direct impact on the club. Hand on heart, I believe that people constantly telling us how it's a waste of money, and all the rest of it, eventually leads to everyone else giving in and agreeing. It becomes more and more difficult to enjoy going to the games and talking about the team when the criticism is so relentless and so damning, and when folk who do look for positives are accussed of having their heads in the sand, or being naiive, or being a club insider or whatever.

I think you need to give .net readers more credit

Criticism is healthy, and nobody will improve without it. I would hate to see the day when everyone agreed on everything on here. Again, my own personal opinion is that people need to take a responsibility for the level of criticism and negativity of their posts and threads. Negativity breeds negativity, and IMHO that accounts for a large part of why we are where we are right now.

As an example of what I mean, I manage a team of people in my work. I encourage them to voice concerns and give feedback regularly. However, they have to do it in a way that doesn't impact on the overall objective of the team. Where we set a target, it only takes one person to decide they don't fancy it and start talking it down for it to spread to the rest of the team. One person can have a huge impact on the overall team, and that extends to the support. As a collective, the hibs.net population is much more influential than people will give it credit for. Even though the registered user base makes up only a small proportion of the support, and the actively posting members even less so, I know of loads of Hibs fans that regularly read without posting, and they're as influenced as the registered users by the posts.

You have an element of control over your team. You don't have any over the users of .net - it's apples and pears Matty

Nobody is saying don't criticise, however when it's all that some people do, you do wonder what they actually see in the club at all.

I think you'd need to ask them direct although that may take some balls. Rather than ask the guy who sits behind me at ER why he only seems to open his gob to criticise the players I considered moving seats this season. I still am because it's easier than confronting him; after all he is a Hibs fan and who am I to say what he can and can't say in response to what he's witnessing on the park. The fact he chooses to mouth off in his seat rather than here on the messageboards is irrelevant. What I can say with absolute certainty is that he will never ever influence me.

There are a lot of posters on .net whose posts are often well thought out and cleverly delivered and there are others who speak now and look like erses later on.

You and I have both been around here long enough to know the difference

What I do know is, that there is not one person who frequents this site who is always right and never wrong and there are those who may often be wrong but on occasions are bang on the money. It's very subjective isn't it?

[matty_f]

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I think you'd need to ask them direct although that may take some balls. Rather than ask the guy who sits behind me at ER why he only seems to open his gob to criticise the players I considered moving seats this season. I still am because it's easier than confronting him; after all he is a Hibs fan and who am I to say what he can and can't say in response to what he's witnessing on the park. The fact he chooses to mouth off in his seat rather than here on the messageboards is irrelevant. What I can say with absolute certainty is that he will never ever influence me.

There are a lot of posters on .net whose posts are often well thought out and cleverly delivered and there are others who speak now and look like erses later on.

You and I have both been around here long enough to know the difference

What I do know is, that there is not one person who frequents this site who is always right and never wrong and there are those who may often be wrong but on occasions are bang on the money. It's very subjective isn't it?

Nobody's saying that someone is right every time, and I don't think anyone would be conceited enough to suggest that they are.

As for the motives, I said I don't know what they are, I don't understand why some posters choose to post things in the way that they do - I don't think it's appropriate as an admin to go and pick out specific posts as there have already been accusations of an agenda to stifle critics, and so I'll keep my own council on that one with all due respect. That said, your example of wanting Calderwood out is clearly not motivated to undermine the club, however if you were posting made up information about him or others related to the situation that he's gotten himself into, which could quite feasibly draw up resentment or (more) ill-feeling towards the manager who has said that he wants to be Hibernian manager very recently, then yes I'd say that was designed to undermine the club - that is very much my opinion though, not an admin one necessarily.

As for my team, yes I suppose that I do have an element of control over it, however I don't tell them how to voice criticism, I ask them to understand the impact of what they say and do, and give them responsibility to voice their criticism appropriately. There is a very real difference between the two which ultimately means I don't need to take control over it because the guys take the responsibility seriously.