Great teams who have been denied glory............

[lyonhibs]

by other, once-in-a-lifetime teams that were around at thr same time?? I was thinking about this, as Fergie must be sick to the back teeth of the sight of Pep Guardiola, Messi, Xavi et al.

Obviously Fergie and Man U are great in the proper sense of the word, but there's no doubting they could have been a damn sight greater in Europe if their recent run of form - over 3/4 seasons - in the Champions League hadn't coinicided with arguably the greatest club side ever.

So, to pass the pre-season boredom, how many other wonderful teams have been denied the trophy haul they would most probably otherwise garnered by the concurrent existence of a one-off, even greater, rival team.

The most obvious example is the "what might have been" for Turnbull's Tornadoes had Jock Stein's Lisbon Lions not been at the height of their powers in the same era, but I'm sure there must be many other examples in the 130+ year history of organised competitive fitba'!!

GGTTH

[Peevemor]

Would this be a good time to mention HoMoFC, Dundee & '86?

[HibeeMG]

It's a good question. One that I've often thought about in other sports though.

I mean, Andy Murray must be peed off that he has to put up with arguably the two best players to have played the game. He would have been a 'British' legend if he didn't have to contend with them.

Tim Henman to a lesser extent with Pete Sampras.

There's been fantastic darts players over the last 15 years (Dennis Priestley, John Part etc.) but they've had no chance to write their name in history due to Mr Phil Taylor.

How many more titles would Mika Hakkinnen had won if Michael Schumacher hadn't been around to scupper his chances.

Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis put paid to many great snooker players over the course of two decades. Poor Jimmy White!

I'm sure there's many others.

[lyonhibs]

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It's a good question. One that I've often thought about in other sports though.

I mean, Andy Murray must be peed off that he has to put up with arguably the two best players to have played the game. He would have been a 'British' legend if he didn't have to contend with them.

Tim Henman to a lesser extent with Pete Sampras.

There's been fantastic darts players over the last 15 years (Dennis Priestley, John Part etc.) but they've had no chance to write their name in history due to Mr Phil Taylor.

How many more titles would Mika Hakkinnen had won if Michael Schumacher hadn't been around to scupper his chances.

Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis put paid to many great snooker players over the course of two decades. Poor Jimmy White!

I'm sure there's many others.

That's very true. Jimmy White must have a voodoo doll of Steve Davis in his bedroom, or he certainly would have in the late 80's/early 90's!!!

Barrichello as well, being forced season after season to dance to Schumacher's tune by Ferrari, but its more debateable whether he would have won much more than he did, what with their being several other top class drivers - Haakinnen being the prime example - who were more or less universally frustrated by Schumacher's relentless dominance of FI for most of the 90's.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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by other, once-in-a-lifetime teams that were around at thr same time?? I was thinking about this, as Fergie must be sick to the back teeth of the sight of Pep Guardiola, Messi, Xavi et al.

Obviously Fergie and Man U are great in the proper sense of the word, but there's no doubting they could have been a damn sight greater in Europe if their recent run of form - over 3/4 seasons - in the Champions League hadn't coinicided with arguably the greatest club side ever.

So, to pass the pre-season boredom, how many other wonderful teams have been denied the trophy haul they would most probably otherwise garnered by the concurrent existence of a one-off, even greater, rival team.

The most obvious example is the "what might have been" for Turnbull's Tornadoes had Jock Stein's Lisbon Lions not been at the height of their powers in the same era, but I'm sure there must be many other examples in the 130+ year history of organised competitive fitba'!!

GGTTH

The Famous Five being so good, but not being able to lift the Scottish Cup....

[patlowe]

Not sure I'd use the word "denied" in this context but when you look at the good to very good Scotland squads in the 70s and 80s (and arguably 90s) then to have not got beyond the group stage of a major tournament is a huge disappointment.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

The total football Dutch team of '74 beaten by the efficient Gerries in the final 2-1.

[Spike Mandela]

The fabulous Platini led French team European Champions in 1984 cruelly kicked out the World Cup 86 by the Germans and Schumacher's shocker.

[The Harp]

Great teams who have been denied glory ...

Would have to say the Hibs team of 2003/04 ... Any team who knocks out not just one of the old firm, but both of them on the way to a final, should automatically be given the Cup!

The other for me would be the great Dutch national side that came so close to lifting the world cup a couple of times but never managed it.

[Ollie Reed]

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The fabulous Platini led French team European Champions in 1984 cruelly kicked out the World Cup 86 by the Germans and Schumacher's shocker.

That was '82, old boy. But this was the first team that sprung to mind, what players they had. Giresse was an underrated genius.

Will also add the Dutch side, as has been said previously and also the Hungarian side, who really should have won The World Cup and somehow lost out to West Germany.

[patlowe]

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Great teams who have been denied glory ...

Would have to say the Hibs team of 2003/04 ... Any team who knocks out not just one of the old firm, but both of them on the way to a final, should automatically be given the Cup!

The other for me would be the great Dutch national side that came so close to lifting the world cup a couple of times but never managed it.

Both great shouts.

[Spike Mandela]

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That was '82, old boy. But this was the first team that sprung to mind, what players they had. Giresse was an underrated genius.

Will also add the Dutch side, as has been said previously and also the Hungarian side, who really should have won The World Cup and somehow lost out to West Germany.

Getting old and all the memories fade into one but I agree, loved watching that team.

Do you remember the classic game they had against Portugal ( I think in the Euros 84). Thought John Motson was going to burst a blood vessel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8DAjJaD-0

[Septimus]

East Fife were very good in the 50's

[MWHIBBIES]

Brazil of early 80's with Socrates,Eder,Falcao and Serginho were a great team but never realy won anything.

[Spike Mandela]

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That was '82, old boy. But this was the first team that sprung to mind, what players they had. Giresse was an underrated genius.

Will also add the Dutch side, as has been said previously and also the Hungarian side, who really should have won The World Cup and somehow lost out to West Germany.

Getting old and all the memories fade into one but I agree, loved watching that team.

Do you remember the classic game they had against Portugal ( I think in the Euros 84). Thought John Motson was going to burst a blood vessel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8DAjJaD-0

[Ollie Reed]

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Getting old and all the memories fade into one but I agree, loved watching that team.

Do you remember the classic game they had against Portugal ( I think in the Euros 84). Thought John Motson was going to burst a blood vessel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8DAjJaD-0

Was a gem of a match, sir. Total drama. What price would Platini, Tigana and Giresse be worth now...brilliant footballers.

At least that side did win something, they deserved to.

[Hibby Gav]

The Busby Babes........

[yekimevol]

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Great teams who have been denied glory ...

Would have to say the Hibs team of 2003/04 ... Any team who knocks out not just one of the old firm, but both of them on the way to a final, should automatically be given the Cup!

The other for me would be the great Dutch national side that came so close to lifting the world cup a couple of times but never managed it.

also big ecks team

[ScottB]

I think you have to be careful with this, genuine class losing to genuine class is one thing, but true greatness triumphing over the merely good isn't a denial.

I'd say the current Man Utd team is far from being being a 'great' side. I doubt Fergie himself ranks them among his best.

The Schumacher era of F1 had no other truly great drivers besides Hakkinen for 2 - 3 seasons, and he won 2 of those. Perhaps in future you could lack back and feel sorry for any of Hamliton / Alonso / Vettel depending on how the titles are won, as they are 'great' drivers.


Hibs failing to win a European Cup is probably one. Try and find the Guardians '10 best games that never happened' piece for that. The Famous Five would likely have won one had the tournament been going a few years earlier.

[Stevie Reid]

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Hibs failing to win a European Cup is probably one. Try and find the Guardians '10 best games that never happened' piece for that. The Famous Five would likely have won one had the tournament been going a few years earlier.

It wasn't even as many as ten! I could read this over and over again, a good wee boost for times like these: -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...hes-never-were

[Scouse Hibee]

Ask an Evertonian and they will tell you that their truly great side was denied the opportunity to enter the European Cup (which they claim they would have won) due to the ban on English clubs in Europe following Heysel.

[Stevie Reid]

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Ask an Evertonian and they will tell you that their truly great side was denied the opportunity to enter the European Cup (which they claim they would have won) due to the ban on English clubs in Europe following Heysel.

Obviously pure conjecture, but given that they won the Cup Winners Cup in 1984 it's surely not that far fetched, is it?

I appreciate that a balanced answer may not be forthcoming

[Scouse Hibee]

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Obviously pure conjecture, but given that they won the Cup Winners Cup in 1984 it's surely not that far fetched, is it?

I appreciate that a balanced answer may not be forthcoming

Errrr maybe not.

[Stevie Reid]

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Errrr maybe not.

[The Harp]

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Ask an Evertonian and they will tell you that their truly great side was denied the opportunity to enter the European Cup (which they claim they would have won) due to the ban on English clubs in Europe following Heysel.

... and who was responsible for that la?!?
Up the Toffees!

[silverhibee]

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Would this be a good time to mention HoMoFC, Dundee & '86?

As good a time as any.

[snooky]

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Great teams who have been denied glory ...

Would have to say the Hibs team of 2003/04 ... Any team who knocks out not just one of the old firm, but both of them on the way to a final, should automatically be given the Cup!

The other for me would be the great Dutch national side that came so close to lifting the world cup a couple of times but never managed it.

My first two choices would be the Tornados and Cruyff's Dutch Masters. However, through clenched teeth, I must say I think the Hearts team of 86 deserved something even if it was just for scaring the ugly sisters.

In other sports ...
Mark Messier was a fantastic ice hockey player for the Oilers but alas the Great Gretzky was around at the same time - and in the same team.
Monty the runner upperer

[lyonhibs]

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... and who was responsible for that la?!?
Up the Toffees!

Let's keep that particular closed for this thread if you please.

[hibsbollah]

Great shouts already, both in international football. The fifties Hungary team, who scandalously won nothing, closely followed by the Platini French side of the early 80s, who won the euros but should really have been a dynasty.

[Pete]

So many british teams have been denied past European glory which they deserved. Not really due to the greatness of the opposition but the corrupt officials in charge of crucial matches. Dundee united, derby county and even rangers are amongst those who feel they've been cheated.

I always felt the valencia team of the late nineties deserved to win the European cup at least once. Once they were up against a Real madrid team that found money down the back of the sofa and the other time they were simply unlucky to lose on pens. Its a shame because the dominance of the big two has weakened them and they will probably never be in that position again.

I also reckon our class of 05/06 deserved to finish at least third and maybe even second. That's probably the best team I've seen at easter road but it was just bad luck that romanov came along at exactly the same time. If hearts weren't artificially strengthened and hadn't bought their way to second then who knows what we could have achieved that season. I still feel a little cheated by all that but at least we done it the right way.