Where is Scottish football going? What are Hibs options?

[Hibbyradge]

I'm struggling to see a way forward for Hibs.

Our league is becoming more and more undermined by the money in England and the standards are worsening, season upon season, as a result.

My views on the effect of the Old Firm leaving are well documented. The TV cash would dry up and sponsors would lose interest. Even if I'm wrong about that, the chances of them ever being wanted by the FA are slim or non-existant, so it won't happen.

A lot of people, including myself, fancy the idea of a British League, but again, why would the English FA, or their clubs, want us? There is also opposition to anything which remotely smacks of coperation with England because of the possible harm to our National status and xenophobia. Again, it won't happen.

So what other options have we got?

Mergers?

[MyJo]

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I'm struggling to see a way forward for Hibs.

Our league is becoming more and more undermined by the money in England and the standards are worsening, season upon season as a result.

My views on the effect of the Old Firm leaving are well documented. The TV cash would dry up and sponsirs would lose interest. Even if I'm wrong about that, the chances of them ever being wanted by the FA are slim or non-existant, so it won't happen.

A lot of people, including myself, fancy the idea of a British League, but again, why would the English FA, or their clubs, want us? There is also opposition to anything which remotely smacks of coperation with England because of the possible harm to our National status and xenophobia. Again, it won't happen.

So what other options have we got?

Mergers?

league reconstruction and a fairer share of revenues between clubs rather than it being weighted in favour of having a two team show from here to eternity.

I wouldn't be against a british league with teams from the SPL and 1st division joining the english set up and having a regionalised scottish "conference" division for the smaller clubs.

[bobbyhibs1983]

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league reconstruction and a fairer share of revenues between clubs rather than it being weighted in favour of having a two team show from here to eternity.

See i dont understand why we ,as in hibs and other spl clubs accept this.Now finishing x postion, it deepnmds on how many point you pick up and is widely accepted, you get x for 1st y for 2nd and z for 3rd and so on.
Now tv money i beleive it is given mostly(not sure of the amount) to celtic and rangers. and the rest is divided up for the other 10.
Now my question is,Why can't the other 10teams so ok, is the tv deal is worth say 5million a year(Just an example here) why cant that 5million be divieded 12 ways?

i sorta understand viewers figure will be higher, but is 10clubs all got togehter and say ok we dont accept the tv deal, what can the old firm do?

I know sounds silly but if the clubs dont make a stand and stand up for themselfs then i can see the old firm maybe trying to get more and more of the share

[Beefster]

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See i dont understand why we ,as in hibs and other spl clubs accept this.Now finishing x postion, it deepnmds on how many point you pick up and is widely accepted, you get x for 1st y for 2nd and z for 3rd and so on.
Now tv money i beleive it is given mostly(not sure of the amount) to celtic and rangers. and the rest is divided up for the other 10.
Now my question is,Why can't the other 10teams so ok, is the tv deal is worth say 5million a year(Just an example here) why cant that 5million be divieded 12 ways?

i sorta understand viewers figure will be higher, but is 10clubs all got togehter and say ok we dont accept the tv deal, what can the old firm do?

I know sounds silly but if the clubs dont make a stand and stand up for themselfs then i can see the old firm maybe trying to get more and more of the share

Aside from the fact that any SPL change needs an 11-1 majority, doing that would likely lead to each club having to make their own individual TV deals. Result - Rangers and Celtic get exactly what they want and the gulf in TV money becomes even larger.

[bobbyhibs1983]

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Aside from the fact that any SPL change needs an 11-1 majority, doing that would likely lead to each club having to make their own individual TV deals. Result - Rangers and Celtic get exactly what they want and the gulf in TV money becomes even larger.

Nods, ye i recall something like a vote of something like that, but didn't know the number, in this case 11-1.

I just find it annoying that the old firm just get what they want and it seems the other clubs cant do nothing bout it.

[ScottB]

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Aside from the fact that any SPL change needs an 11-1 majority, doing that would likely lead to each club having to make their own individual TV deals. Result - Rangers and Celtic get exactly what they want and the gulf in TV money becomes even larger.

When the other clubs bottled their breakaway plan they pretty much signaled their desire to live in servitude.

However, sooner or later the Old Firm will have to accept that they aren't going anywhere else...

[steakbake]

Xenophobia has nowt to do with why there wont be a UK league. Reality has everything to do with it. The England national team is as much of a concession by FIFA as Scotland, Wales and NI: none of us are nations in our own right.

I think the logistics of it makes it impossible, not the idea itself.

[Saorsa]

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Aside from the fact that any SPL change needs an 11-1 majority, doing that would likely lead to each club having to make their own individual TV deals. Result - Rangers and Celtic get exactly what they want and the gulf in TV money becomes even larger.

If the other clubs had stuck together and gone ahead with resigning from the SPL when they had a chance and started another league who would Celtc or Rongers be playing tae put on their own TV channels?

People keep saying Scottish fitba needs the OF, but the OF need Scottish fitba more, who else would they play? . All it would take is for the other clubs tae stick together

Too many mealy mouths and bottle merchants though.

[lucky]

If the Old firm leave Scottish football we will end up like the a slightly better off Welsh league. The Old firm account for around 80% of Scottish football fans that attend games. Its fanciful to think we would have a thriving game with out Scotland biggest and most hideous clubs. But unfortunately its true. The best option is for a UK league even if that means Hibs going in the 2nd or 3rd tier.

Scottish football needs more money and the only way the SPL clubs can try compete with the English leagues (forget the EPL) is get get a better TV deal. The TV executives are saying they want more top games for their cash which is what the 10 team league is about. The majority of fans want a 14/16 team league but the money is just not there. As such the league will continue to splutter a long til it dies a slow death. The big clubs of Europe will end up in their own mega rich league. TV will dictate. We will then see more kids in the Barca, Real, Inter Man U, chelsea strips running around Scotland.

[Dr What If?]

To move forward we have to identify the problems. If we simply look at football like any other business and the simple fact is Scottish football is not competing with other forms of recreation, e.g. tv, shops, games, etc.
Hardly surprising though, football in Scotland is designed to destroy its own product. The disparity in resources afforded to the OF was correctly pointed out earlier but let us not forget that the entire SLP exists to hedge the little amount our game does get for the teams in our top league. Div 1, 2, 3 etc. should be creating the players who play in the SPL tomorrow and we should be paying for the privilage to sign them but these teams can't rum accademies or even pay players the wages they would get for doing nothing at a Hibs, Hearts, etc.
The glamour of the English game is a consideration too, look at the stadium Wigan have...compare it to the third best club ground in Scotland, our own Easter Road, we just look like a cheap immitation in comparason.
The SPL should be funding private accademies around the country to feed lower division teams with players. There should be some kind of stadium development fund put in place (again, funded by the SPL) and used to improve grounds around the country, and yes, money has to be spread across all the clubs. Alternatively, dispand the SPL and beg to rejoin the Scottish league - if they'll have us after the way we and the other so called big clubs have properly screwed them.

[Springbank]

anything that gives a quick fix, but at the cost of losing our national team forever (or until a political referendum can rectify matters…and it most certainly would be more likely to, in those circumstances) is a suggestion which looks to me like this:
it knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[Beefster]

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If the other clubs had stuck together and gone ahead with resigning from the SPL when they had a chance and started another league who would Celtc or Rongers be playing tae put on their own TV channels?

People keep saying Scottish fitba needs the OF, but the OF need Scottish fitba more, who else would they play? . All it would take is for the other clubs tae stick together

Too many mealy mouths and bottle merchants though.

I'm not sure why you quoted me. I was talking about the TV deal as it stands and whether we could start making demands about TV cash - not whether the clubs were right to not break away.

For all this talk of "let's stick together against them", Hibs are standing shoulder to shoulder with Celtic and Rangers (and Aberdeen) against the rest of the SPL in the league reconstruction farce. Folk like to think that there is this natural coalition against the OF (as far as the clubs are involved). There isn't.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It is one thing to talk of mergers, but it is another thing to decide which of the clubs should merge. For all people point to the smaller clubs in leagues two and three and say that some of them should merge, I think that it is true that those teams are not where the debt lies. I have no doubt that if East Fife, Raith and Cowden merged with the Pars as a Fife United, they would play in black and white stripes at EEP, and the other team's property asset stripped and sold. That would be competition elimination.

[IWasThere2016]

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If the other clubs had stuck together and gone ahead with resigning from the SPL when they had a chance and started another league who would Celtc or Rongers be playing tae put on their own TV channels?

People keep saying Scottish fitba needs the OF, but the OF need Scottish fitba more, who else would they play? . All it would take is for the other clubs tae stick together

Too many mealy mouths and bottle merchants though.

There needs to be genuine competition - and that means no OF - to enthuse the fans again. Otherwise the Scottish game will continue the path it is own of dying a slow and painful death.

The only option is to remove the OF or their unfair share of revenues. Talk of a British League is a non-starter the English PL/Championship don't need us.

[Hibbyradge]

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There needs to be genuine competition - and that means no OF - to enthuse the fans again. Otherwise the Scottish game will continue the path it is own of dying a slow and painful death.

The only option is to remove the OF or their unfair share of revenues. Talk of a British League is a non-starter the English PL/Championship don't need us.

The Old Firm won't leave the money behind. It will go with them.

Yes, there may be a more equal share of what's left, but what's left will be a pittance.

[IWasThere2016]

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The Old Firm won't leave the money behind. It will go with them.

Yes, there may be a more equal share of what's left, but what's left will be a pittance.

Then the game will adapt. That may be at a lower level but it will end up there anyway with the OF sucking it dry.

I'd rather be in control personally .. Than at the mercy of the OF

[James70]

If the unlikely was to happen and the OF were to leave and join the English set-up then surely that would set a precedent and it would be easier for other Scottish clubs like ourselves, Hearts, Aberdeen and possibly Dundee Utd to do likewise.

[hibs0666]

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I'm struggling to see a way forward for Hibs.

Our league is becoming more and more undermined by the money in England and the standards are worsening, season upon season, as a result.

My views on the effect of the Old Firm leaving are well documented. The TV cash would dry up and sponsors would lose interest. Even if I'm wrong about that, the chances of them ever being wanted by the FA are slim or non-existant, so it won't happen.

A lot of people, including myself, fancy the idea of a British League, but again, why would the English FA, or their clubs, want us? There is also opposition to anything which remotely smacks of coperation with England because of the possible harm to our National status and xenophobia. Again, it won't happen.

So what other options have we got?

Mergers?

We need to take the English competition aspect away - I agree wholeheartedly that is killing us.

The answer? Summer football.

[marinello59]

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We need to take the English competition aspect away - I agree wholeheartedly that is killing us.

The answer? Summer football.

Beat me to it. That would give us our own niche TV market as well.

[Hibbyradge]

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Then the game will adapt. That may be at a lower level but it will end up there anyway with the OF sucking it dry.

I'd rather be in control personally .. Than at the mercy of the OF

Well, as I said, that isn't going to happen.

However, the fact is that the Old Firm would suck the money out of Scotland whether they were in the SPL or elsewhere. If they were in the EPL, the SPL would become irrelevant to the media, and therefore the public, in its own country.

I haven't renewed this season cos the standard is so poor. I'm certainly not the only one fed up with Scottish football. Loads of Jambos I know have stopped going and I'm sure the same is replicated with clubs up and down the country.

I can't imagine ever wanting to pay to watch Scottish football again if 80% of the money goes west and the standard goes through the floor.

[marinello59]

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If the other clubs had stuck together and gone ahead with resigning from the SPL when they had a chance and started another league who would Celtc or Rongers be playing tae put on their own TV channels?

People keep saying Scottish fitba needs the OF, but the OF need Scottish fitba more, who else would they play? . All it would take is for the other clubs tae stick together

Too many mealy mouths and bottle merchants though.

I agree. Too many bottle merchants who feel that as we can't currently compete with the Old Firm we never will. However rather than adopt a long term strategy to actually take them on they concede defeat and suggest we wave them goodbye. It beggars belief that people can actually argue that the only way to strengthen our league is to remove the two strongest teams in it. How meaningless would it be to be crowned Scottish champions when the best two teams in Scotland don't even play here? It's a craven acceptance that we are second rate and always will be. Stuff that.

[Luna_Asylum]

does anybody know how or why the 11-1 rule came about?

[Beefster]

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does anybody know how or why the 11-1 rule came about?

More or less to stop change that everyone doesn't agree with, I think.

[Luna_Asylum]

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More or less to stop change that everyone doesn't agree with, I think.

thank you - thats most likely the why but the how?

[hibs0666]

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Beat me to it. That would give us our own niche TV market as well.

It gives us our own niche and also allows means that the exciting parts of the season occur when during the English mid-season.

We also get to football on decent pitches and in short sleeves. Midweek games become much more appealing than a chore on a dark wet night.

What's not to like?

[Bishop Hibee]

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We need to take the English competition aspect away - I agree wholeheartedly that is killing us.

The answer? Summer football.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Beat me to it. That would give us our own niche TV market as well.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It gives us our own niche and also allows means that the exciting parts of the season occur when during the English mid-season.

We also get to football on decent pitches and in short sleeves. Midweek games become much more appealing than a chore on a dark wet night.

What's not to like?

Reasons against summer football:

1) Summer is when people go on holiday/weekends/days away with family and friends. Will fans buy an ST if they know they will miss home games? I wouldn't

2) There are only about 5 weeks of a close season between the end of internationals and the start of pre-season friendlies in England and not much more in mainland Europe. I can see a continent's attention turning to the SPL right enough.

3) Winter in Scotland is crap. It would be crapper if I didn't have the football to look forward to in the winter months.

Hibs 'option' is to try to provide the fans with committed entertaining football with a cup final/trophy and/or a league position that gives us European football every so often. Something we will NEVER have again in a mythical British league.

The end-game for football in Europe is a European League with lesser teams in countries around Europe playing in domestic leagues and a Europa League style European competition.

All in my humble opinion of course

[cad]

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We need to take the English competition aspect away - I agree wholeheartedly that is killing us.

The answer? Summer football.

Summer footballs the answer ,but keeping the players honed for our European games will make it an awfi long season ,once we get through a few rounds likes .

[Luna_Asylum]

also does anyone know why the chief execs of both the sfa and spl are both non scots?

[hibs0666]

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Reasons against summer football:

1) Summer is when people go on holiday/weekends/days away with family and friends. Will fans buy an ST if they know they will miss home games? I wouldn't

People go on away holiday all year round, not just the summer months.

2) There are only about 5 weeks of a close season between the end of internationals and the start of pre-season friendlies in England and not much more in mainland Europe. I can see a continent's attention turning to the SPL right enough.

It is not about getting some bloke in Belgium to watch the SPL while munching through their moules and frites, it's about ensuring Scottish people to maintin interest in their home league.

3) Winter in Scotland is crap. It would be crapper if I didn't have the football to look forward to in the winter months.

Summer in Scotland is OK. It would be fantastic if there was football to watch! And, if you want to watch a match in the bleak midwinter, the Premiership is just down the road in a boozer near you.

[marinello59]

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also does anyone know why the chief execs of both the sfa and spl are both non scots?

Don't know and don't think their nationality really matters. Does it?