Can the Old Firm Nonsense Affect .net Censorship?

[Sylar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-13175213

I couldn't help but notice this on the BBC website this morning, following on as one of the "points" which arose out of the action plan which was derived at the recent 'summit', in the wake of all the nonsense the last time the Old Firm met at Parkhead.

It made me think about one or two specific posters on here who are notorious in some of their postings when it comes to the Old Firm and the bigger picture of religious divide in Scotland.

Obviously, racism is not rife on these boards and any such examples are usually identified and immediately quashed when a line is crossed, but will these new "raids" force a tempering of how some posters put forward their feelings on the Glasgow duo and how the boards are moderated?

[Hermit Crab]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-13175213

I couldn't help but notice this on the BBC website this morning, following on as one of the "points" which arose out of the action plan which was derived at the recent 'summit', in the wake of all the nonsense the last time the Old Firm met at Parkhead.

It made me think about one or two specific posters on here who are notorious in some of their postings when it comes to the Old Firm and the bigger picture of religious divide in Scotland.

Obviously, racism is not rife on these boards and any such examples are usually identified and immediately quashed when a line is crossed, but will these new "raids" force a tempering of how some posters put forward their feelings on the Glasgow duo and how the boards are moderated?

I dont think there are many people on this forum who openly slate the old firm or hearts for that matter,by using racist or bigoted comments or threaten to do things at games that would be against the law. However i do think that these boards would be monitored if such times hibs and hearts fans became like the old firm fans. I dont think hibs or hearts fans could ever be as bad as the old firm as they are just now. I dont recall any hibs/hearts derbies being as bad as some of the old firms that have been on tv. Remember Dallas getting the coin off his napper and the fan falling from the top tier and rangers winning the lge in the same game. Also the 1980 cup final which was the end of booze at games. (before my time though)

[ScottB]

I don't think so, this is just the Police catching up with technology and ending some folks misconception that in the online world it is somehow acceptable to come out with bile that would get you arrested on the street.

Will be interesting as to what happens to the big Celtic and Rangers messageboards, and perhaps even Kickback.

[WindyMiller]

My hatred of the O.F. and the way I display it on here has nothing to do with religion.

[Hibs On Tour]

Just a timely reminder to anyone that still retains the completely misguided view that somehow the Internet is not policed and that complete 'freedom' [i.e. anarchy] reigns on it.

The Internet is a medium which needs to be viewed and addressed in exactly the same way as any other, such as printing. All the existing legal standpoints still apply such as libel/slander and the various laws regarding breach of the peace, incitement along with all the sectarian/race-related 'jam on top'. Its an interesting thing, the legal side because there's still lots of debate about whether legislation should apply where the site is hosted [the ISP], where the content originates from [the sender] or where it is [or can be] viewed [the recipient]. Regardless, its certainly not the 'free-for-all' some would have you believe...

That's also why the Admins here have to spend so much time ensuring that nothing gets posted up here that would bring hibs.net into potential liability to some degree...

[PaulSmith]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-13175213

I couldn't help but notice this on the BBC website this morning, following on as one of the "points" which arose out of the action plan which was derived at the recent 'summit', in the wake of all the nonsense the last time the Old Firm met at Parkhead.

It made me think about one or two specific posters on here who are notorious in some of their postings when it comes to the Old Firm and the bigger picture of religious divide in Scotland.

Obviously, racism is not rife on these boards and any such examples are usually identified and immediately quashed when a line is crossed, but will these new "raids" force a tempering of how some posters put forward their feelings on the Glasgow duo and how the boards are moderated?

Of course it should, you cannot have one law for people who post on FF and Kerrydale St and another for Hibs.net and the rest of the forums.

This is nothing new and 2 Aberdeen fans were charged and found guilty a few year back for mocking the deaths of two Rangers fans in a road accident on the way to an Aberdeen v Rangers game.

********s like the TheRapist and the like on JKB should've been 'done' a very long time ago for comment made against Zemamma and Benji.

[Sylar]

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Of course it should, you cannot have one law for people who post on FF and Kerrydale St and another for Hibs.net and the rest of the forums.

This is nothing new and 2 Aberdeen fans were charged and found guilty a few year back for mocking the deaths of two Rangers fans in a road accident on the way to an Aberdeen v Rangers game.

********s like the TheRapist and the like on JKB should've been 'done' a very long time ago for comment made against Zemamma and Benji.

My first thought when I read the story was immediately to a specific post which appeared on here on Tuesday (?) night, in response to the emerging Neil Lennon story.

I then started to think more generally about some of the language people on here use in relation to the Old Firm. Granted, there's generally nothing on the scale one might read on the other forums you've listed, but the widespread use of the terms such as "hun" or "fenian" have been deemed "illegal" and as such, are surely a bone of contention.

I personally think there are much bigger things out there to be getting annoyed at and wound up over, but such is the nature of the beast really.

[PaulSmith]

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My first thought when I read the story was immediately to a specific post which appeared on here on Tuesday (?) night, in response to the emerging Neil Lennon story.

I then started to think more generally about some of the language people on here use in relation to the Old Firm. Granted, there's generally nothing on the scale one might read on the other forums you've listed, but the widespread use of the terms such as "hun" or "fenian" have been deemed "illegal" and as such, are surely a bone of contention.

I personally think there are much bigger things out there to be getting annoyed at and wound up over, but such is the nature of the beast really.

I agree with your last sentence but would you concede that it breeds and encourages idiots and through sites such as FF and JKB the real idiots find another real idiot with the same thoughts as him and before you know it there is a dedicated Hearts Loyalist Web site.

Before forums came along these cretins would spend all day probably thinking how great it is to be a Loyalist and all catholics are the spawn of the devil but didn't have the balls to say it to anyone, now they post under a disguise which gives them the anonymity to post their vile views to the world.

I hope the doors are being battered down across central Scotland right now and those 'hoping' that the law will protect them under freedom of speech or try to say that it wasn't them that posted the items are in for a real shock as the police wouldn't have gone to these lengths without getting advice from the PF.

[Barney McGrew]

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now they post under a disguise which gives them the anonymity to post their vile views to the world

And most of them are too thick to realise that it's not anonymous and they're always traceable via their IP and their internet service provider.

[givescotlandfreedom]

When did Hun become a sectarian word? Maybe just me but I think "fenian" means catholic (in today's context) so is sectarian, however I'd only use the word Hun to describe Rangers fans/players and not protestants in general. Did the Huns just decide this?

[ArabHibee]

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When did Hun become a sectarian word? Maybe just me but I think "fenian" means catholic (in today's context) so is sectarian, however I'd only use the word Hun to describe Rangers fans/players and not protestants in general. Did the Huns just decide this?

My thoughts as well.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The biggest problem with sectarianism in football is the the biggest two protagonists compare themselves against the other, without seeing the bigger picture. Religous bigotry may be an unpleasant seam to our country, but on the West coast, it is an open raw wound that never gets left to heal.

[BT58]

I might be totally naive here
But here goes,,,,,,
A friend, new acquaintence, a new
workmate is introduced to you
Do you say hello and welkome them in
or do you enquire on which religion
They practice?????
I would say that 99pc would answer the
first as yes
THE SFA should punish the 2 teams
And throw the 2 of em into the juniors
Never gonna happen tho,,,, is it !!!!

[Sir David Gray]

I think the authorities have to be very careful in protecting the right to freedom of speech and expression, which I think is a right that is extremely important in a democratic country.

Clearly, acts which seriously intend to endanger life, like the parcel bombs that were sent to Neil Lennon, Trish Godman and Paul McBride and any posts that are put up on forums or social sites like Facebook that call for Lennon or any other football figure to be murdered should not be protected under the laws regarding freedom of expression or speech and the people who make such comments on the internet should be hunted down and brought to justice.

However, I think people need to be careful when trying to silence those who display opinions and beliefs that others merely find objectionable because they are critical of a particular religion or nation.

So long as someone does not threaten the safety or life of an innocent person (either directly or indirectly) then I believe that the law should protect them by allowing them to say pretty much whatever they like on any issue.

[Ryan91]

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When did Hun become a sectarian word? Maybe just me but I think "fenian" means catholic (in today's context) so is sectarian, however I'd only use the word Hun to describe Rangers fans/players and not protestants in general. Did the Huns just decide this?

The way I see things is that the term 'Hun' has always been associated with the Rangers support but not with being a protestant. In years past 'Hun' was used to describe the Germans, but that was pre-1950s and more to do with the two wars.

Rangers likely decided it was because they have used the term 'fenian' to label the Celtic support despite it originally being a derogatory term, whereas as I said above 'Hun' had derogatory meaning in years past but it has been used to describe Rangers for years in a non-derogatory fashion.

[Barney McGrew]

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When did Hun become a sectarian word? Maybe just me but I think "fenian" means catholic (in today's context) so is sectarian, however I'd only use the word Hun to describe Rangers fans/players and not protestants in general. Did the Huns just decide this?

The case involving the Celtc fan lifted with his home made t-shirt on following Rangers defeat in Manchester set the precident. Nonsense if you ask me.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...cle1848719.ece

[Removed]

I can't say I have ever used the term 'Fenian', I'll make do with Tims.

And I can't see there is anything wrong with hun. DOB on the other hand would probably be seen as sectarian

[Sergey]

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And most of them are too thick to realise that it's not anonymous and they're always traceable via their IP and their internet service provider.

Not exactly true, as you could post via an anonymous proxy server and/or post through a 3rd party computer. If registration is needed, simply create a Hotmail account (other free on-line email providers are available) using either of the above and your anonymity is nigh-on guaranteed.

Don't ask me how I know

[Barney McGrew]

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Not exactly true, as you could post via an anonymous proxy server and/or post through a 3rd party computer. If registration is needed, simply create a Hotmail account (other free on-line email providers are available) using either of the above and your anonymity is nigh-on guaranteed.

Don't ask me how I know

Thankfully, I'd bet that will be beyond most of the knuckledraggers

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=PaulSmith;2785970]Of course it should, you cannot have one law for people who post on FF and Kerrydale St and another for Hibs.net and the rest of the forums.

This is nothing new and 2 Aberdeen fans were charged and found guilty a few year back for mocking the deaths of two Rangers fans in a road accident on the way to an Aberdeen v Rangers game.

********s like the TheRapist and the like on JKB should've been 'done' a very long time ago for comment made against Zemamma and Benji.[/QUOTE]




How the admins let them away with those comments is a mystery. Absolute disgrace. A friend of mines, a huge Hearts fan, ST holder for years and first team player in her family ( I know , I know, but she does do things other girls dont do ) told me she complained and some comments were removed. Had they not done so she said she would have gone to the Police and trust me she would have. I told her she should have anyway.

[The Harp]

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The way I see things is that the term 'Hun' has always been associated with the Rangers support but not with being a protestant. In years past 'Hun' was used to describe the Germans, but that was pre-1950s and more to do with the two wars.

Rangers likely decided it was because they have used the term 'fenian' to label the Celtic support despite it originally being a derogatory term, whereas as I said above 'Hun' had derogatory meaning in years past but it has been used to describe Rangers for years in a non-derogatory fashion.

Yup, I'm a different generation to you but I agree wi' that. Although I've always referred to Rangers and their fans as Huns, it has nothing whatsoever to do with protestantism, it's from the dictionary definition (at least the dictionary I use ) Hun = a barbarian but it also states: Soldiers' slang for a German during World War 1.
The term would probably be regarded as politically incorrect these days and led to me having to explain (and apologise) to an in-law a few years ago. While out for a drink, I forgot he was of German extraction and mentioned that we were "taking on the Huns next week."
As far as I'm concerned, the word is exclusively used in a Rangers context only. I wouldn't like the use of it to be outlawed.

[WindyMiller]

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Yup, I'm a different generation to you but I agree wi' that. Although I've always referred to Rangers and their fans as Huns, it has nothing whatsoever to do with protestantism, it's from the dictionary definition (at least the dictionary I use ) Hun = a barbarian but it also states: Soldiers' slang for a German during World War 1.
The term would probably be regarded as politically incorrect these days and led to me having to explain (and apologise) to an in-law a few years ago. While out for a drink, I forgot he was of German extraction and mentioned that we were "taking on the Huns next week."
As far as I'm concerned, the word is exclusively used in a Rangers context only. I wouldn't like the use of it to be outlawed.

My old man (a jambo, ex soldier) called them Huns and that's good enough for me.

[PaulSmith]

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My old man (a jambo, ex soldier) called them Huns and that's good enough for me.

My Gran used to ask me to go to the Chinky's for dinner or get a bottle of coke from the Paki's as well. It's 2011 now though and its just not acceptable.