Scotsman Article

[Irish Dave]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Bigotry...?articlepage=1

Unacceptable behaviour: yes. Bigoted no , not on Hibs behalf, racist maybe. 3 arrests.

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Bigotry...?articlepage=1

Unacceptable behaviour: yes. Bigoted no , not on Hibs behalf, racist maybe. 3 arrests.

Racism is bigotry.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Racism is bigotry.

Exactly. And the songs are defended by those who sing them in exactly the same way. Sometimes we have to see ourselves as others see us no matter how uncomfortable that makes us feel.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Bigotry...?articlepage=1

Unacceptable behaviour: yes. Bigoted no , not on Hibs behalf, racist maybe. 3 arrests.

If the story about the Skacel chants is true, then yes it is bigotry.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Bigotry...?articlepage=1

Unacceptable behaviour: yes. Bigoted no , not on Hibs behalf, racist maybe. 3 arrests.

Even if racism wasn't bigotry it's not the best defense to use against the accusation is it. How very dare you sir, we're not bigots, we're racist.

[steakbake]

I'm glad that a light is getting shown on this. I like a passionate atmosphere at ER but sometimes, people forget that it's just a football match.

[H18sry]

A LEADING academic has warned Scotland's football authorities that measures to tackle bigotry should not just focus on the Old Firm, after describing the as "completely unacceptable" the behaviour of fans at the Edinburgh derby at the weekend.
Dr John Kelly, an expert in sport and sectarianism at Edinburgh University, said he could clearly hear the singing of offensive chants by both Hibs and Hearts supporters during the match at Easter Road.

He also said he was shocked to witness Hibs supporters close to where he was sitting hurling missiles - including a slice of pizza and a large cup of soft drink - from their seats towards the Easter Road pitch, and at the sight of dozens of Hearts fans leaping over barriers to goad their rivals after snatching a late equaliser.

The Scotsman can reveal 20 fans were thrown out of the stadium for "unruly behaviour" by police or stewards, with a further three arrested for alleged drunkenness and encroaching on to the pitch.

These figures compared to six arrests at the recent Old Firm cup final and 34 at the previous Celtic-Rangers encounter at Parkhead that triggered a Scottish Government investigation into bigotry and violence problems in the game.

The Edinburgh derby disorder flared just days after Richie Towell, on loan at Hibs from Celtic, said he had met more hostility at Tynecastle than at Ibrox as an Irish Catholic.

Hibs last night revealed the club had supplied Lothian and Borders Police with a dossier of CCTV footage of all areas of the club following the disorder, and warned any fans either who were arrested or ejected from the game would be facing a ban from Easter Road.

The force said it would "fully investigate" any complaints received over sectarian, racist, or other offensive chanting.

The behaviour of Scottish football fans has been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons over the last month since senior police officers called for Old Firm matches to be played behind closed doors due to the levels of violence that surround the fixture.

Strathclyde Police asked the Scottish Government to convene a high-profile summit just days later after 187 offences were reported in the force area in the wake of the next Old Firm game, which saw Rangers assistant manager Ally McCoist and Celtic coach Neil Lennon confront each other following the final whistle.

A taskforce involving the police and football authorities is drawing up a new code of conduct which will tackle the issue of offensive chants and possible sanctions for clubs.

Writing in The Scotsman today, Dr Kelly, who claims to have no affiliation with either Hibs or Hearts, said: "The latest Hibs-Hearts derby at Easter Road exposed the bigoted, intolerant and inflammatory behaviour of some Edinburgh fans that seems to have escaped scrutiny from the police and media alike.

"Tackling ethno-religious bigotry requires all guilty parties are held culpable if genuine solutions are to be found."

He told The Scotsman: "It was certainly not two or three supporters. I am talking hundreds who were all around me, who were singing 'Rudi Skacel's a f***ing refugee'. And there were thousands of Hearts supporters singing about being 'up to their knees in Fenian blood'.

"In many ways there was a great atmosphere, but there is no doubt these chants are bigoted and offensive. The conduct of a lot of supporters was completely unacceptable.

"I watched around 20 missiles being thrown from the Hibs end when a Hearts player went to take a corner, including a slice of pizza and a full cup of soft drink.

"When Hearts equalised, around 30 of their supporters, tried to encroach onto the sidelines and some got on to the pitch."




The highlighted area's

He says he has no support for Hibs so why was he sitting in the Hibs end how did he get a ticket?

[Sergey]

On a slightly separate matter; did Hertz get pulled-up earlier this season for lobbing potatoes at Stokes or was that simply ignored (or not reported by the referee)?

[hibsbollah]

Its true. Uncomfortable reading but true. Just because we're not as bad as the Old firm doesnt mean theres not improvement to be made.

The fenian blood chant from Hearts fans on Sunday was just as clearly audible and undeniable as when Rangers are at ER. And i cant remember thinking that before. Its definitely getting worse with them...

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The highlighted area's

He says he has no support for Hibs so why was he sitting in the Hibs end how did he get a ticket?

Does that matter? Hopefully we don't go down the Old Firm route of shooting the messenger.

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A LEADING academic has warned Scotland's football authorities that measures to tackle bigotry should not just focus on the Old Firm, after describing the as "completely unacceptable" the behaviour of fans at the Edinburgh derby at the weekend.

Dr John Kelly, an expert in sport and sectarianism at Edinburgh University, said he could clearly hear the singing of offensive chants by both Hibs and Hearts supporters during the match at Easter Road.

He also said he was shocked to witness Hibs supporters close to where he was sitting hurling missiles - including a slice of pizza and a large cup of soft drink - from their seats towards the Easter Road pitch, and at the sight of dozens of Hearts fans leaping over barriers to goad their rivals after snatching a late equaliser.
....

"I watched around 20 missiles being thrown from the Hibs end when a Hearts player went to take a corner, including a slice of pizza and a full cup of soft drink.

"When Hearts equalised, around 30 of their supporters, tried to encroach onto the sidelines and some got on to the pitch."
....

He says he has no support for Hibs so why was he sitting in the Hibs end how did he get a ticket?

I think he attended the game in order to keep up to date in his field of study.

I also think the real problems with the behaviour on Sunday had naff all to do with any religious / sectarian aspect, it was plain old bampottery (ie the Hibbies that chucked any items to hand and the Jambos that decided to set up base camp in the Hibs penalty box).

[H18sry]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does that matter? Hopefully we don't go down the Old Firm route of shooting the messenger.

Just asking a valid question, I do not disagree with what he is saying,but to get a ticket for the Hibs end you have to be on the data base, he is either a liar or an interloper.

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just asking a valid question, I do not disagree with what he is saying,but to get a ticket for the Hibs end you have to be on the data base, he is either a liar or an interloper.

Like I say, he's probably attended a number of games at various grounds to further his research. It's not exactly difficult to get and stay on the Hibs database (ie buy a ticket for A.N. Other game and then behave yourself).

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just asking a valid question, I do not disagree with what he is saying,but to get a ticket for the Hibs end you have to be on the data base, he is either a liar or an interloper.

Does it matter what he says is completely spot on? No doubt some Hibee he knows got it for him.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just asking a valid question, I do not disagree with what he is saying,but to get a ticket for the Hibs end you have to be on the data base, he is either a liar or an interloper.

..or someone who is on the database at ER and Tynie.

[Irish Dave]

the article is incorrect . it labels the actions of the hibs support as bigoted (which in the scottish football context is seen as intolerance of catholics or protestants) . thats what annoyed me. I agree there were unacceptable elements on Sunday, but ones common to many derbies in England, for example. The article attempted to lump hibs and hearts in with the old firm, and both teams (hibs to a greater extent) have moved well away from that.

I certainly wasn't condoning the skacel chant which is wrong. However, I don't think many people who sing the skacel chant are actually really racist against czechs. The intolerance is of hearts, thats what we need to talk about. and I think the motivation of singing the song is to cause offence to hearts and their followers.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

the article is incorrect . it labels the actions of the hibs support as bigoted (which in the scottish football context is seen as intolerance of catholics or protestants) . thats what annoyed me. I agree there were unacceptable elements on Sunday, but ones common to many derbies in England, for example. The article attempted to lump hibs and hearts in with the old firm, and both teams (hibs to a greater extent) have moved well away from that.

I certainly wasn't condoning the skacel chant which is wrong. However, I don't think many people who sing the skacel chant are actually really racist against czechs. The intolerance is of hearts, thats what we need to talk about. and I think the motivation of singing the song is to cause offence to hearts and their followers.

Which is exactly how the Hearts fans will defend singing the Billy Boys garbage. And how the Old Firm defend their ditties.

[RIP]

The Skacel song is a disgrace. It has to go and if it means booting the song starters the hell out of Easter Road then it can't happen soon enough. It's no coincidence that some of these individuals are openly racist and enjoy reinforcing racial stereotypes - "Edinburgh Song", "All East Europeans are refugees", All darkies are hung". Their predictable response of "it's only banter" cannot be allowed to go unchallenged

I'm sure there's plenty Hibbies from an ethnic background who would appreciate the message this action would send out

[Liberal Hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Its true. Uncomfortable reading but true. Just because we're not as bad as the Old firm doesnt mean theres not improvement to be made.

Three arrests out of 18,000 is actually worse than six out of 52,000.

[LancashireHibby]

I get the impression that the media have been looking desperately for an "it's not just the Old Firm" line and, well, we didn't have to make them delve too deeply.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Dr John Kelly, an expert in sport and sectarianism at Edinburgh University,

Can't believe tax-payers money has been spent on this guy becoming an "expert" on this.

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can't believe tax-payers money has been spent on this guy becoming an "expert" on this.

I can't believe the behaviour that makes the field of study viable.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Bigotry...?articlepage=1

Unacceptable behaviour: yes. Bigoted no , not on Hibs behalf, racist maybe. 3 arrests.

Well, that's OK then.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does that matter? Hopefully we don't go down the Old Firm route of shooting the messenger.

Having taken much stick for raising the subject of the Skacel song 6 years ago (I think it ended up about six pages), I have to say that some people do not take kindly to any sort of criticism.

The song is out of order, anyone who thinks otherwise, just doesn't think IMO.

[Pretty Boy]

Simple fact is we can't keep sweeping this kind of crap under the carpet and the sooner we drop the 'OF are worse than us so it's ok' mentality the better.

The Skacel song is embarassing and it's racist, simple as. The Edinburgh song is definitely racist, anyone who says otherwise is just plain stupid.

I was in town on Sunday night and was treated to a group of Hearts fans singing a little ditty that went like this: 'If you cannae do the bouncy you're a taig' apparently they got this idea from Rangers. Unfortunately any attempt to demonise them looks pretty hypocritical when you have morons in your own support singing about refugees, pakis, jews and whatever else.

Words and phrases like fenian *******, taig, paki etc etc just aren't acceptable. This isn't 'PC gone mad' (the most overused and misused phrase in the English language) it's just a fact. The sooner some muppets drag themselves out of the dark ages and realise it's not just banter the better for all concerned IMO.

[johnrebus]

Strikes me that this guy is probably a fan of either of the Old Firm, like the school bully saying ' aye, but he does it too'.

Half of the familes in Edinburgh have supporters of both Hibs and Hearts within them, how often can this be said of Rangers and Celtic?

I don't like Hearts or their fans because they are ignorant, arrogant and deluded, not because of their bloody religion!

[Phil D. Rolls]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does that matter? Hopefully we don't go down the Old Firm route of shooting the messenger.

We can fully expect a debate on: why Skacel is not a refugee; why it is no more offensive than singing about Gorgie/Glasgow slums; why fat people deserve just as much protection as immigrants; how the PC brigade are ruining football; and also how someone's best friend is black and he really doesn't mind being called a n*gger.

The majority of these posts will come from people backing up their pals, and will are very likely to be made by people living in areas where 99.5 of the population is white, and 99.4 is the fourth generation of their family to live within half a mile of Fathell, Midlothian/West Lothian/Lanarkshire Cross.

There will also be a few from East Lothian farmers, who say no-one in their local has ever objected to a bit of banter. A Fifer will also post to say that anyone from overseas should be repatriated, and demand the immediate closure of the Forth and Tay road bridges.

Where's my Benzos?

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Strikes me that this guy is probably a fan of either of the Old Firm, like the school bully saying ' aye, but he does it too'.

Half of the familes in Edinburgh have supporters of both Hibs and Hearts within them, how often can this be said of Rangers and Celtic?

I don't like Hearts or their fans because they are ignorant, arrogant and deluded, not because of their bloody religion!

He's an academic. I can guarantee you that he's not saying what he's saying in an attempt to make Rangers or Celtic look better, irrespective of who, if anyone, he actually supports.

He's right too.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We can fully expect a debate on: why Skacel is not a refugee; why it is no more offensive than singing about Gorgie/Glasgow slums; why fat people deserve just as much protection as immigrants; how the PC brigade are ruining football; and also how someone's best friend is black and he really doesn't mind being called a n*gger.

The majority of these posts will come from people backing up their pals, and will are very likely to be made by people living in areas where 99.5 of the population is white, and 99.4 is the fourth generation of their family to live within half a mile of Fathell, Midlothian/West Lothian/Lanarkshire Cross.

There will also be a few from East Lothian farmers, who say no-one in their local has ever objected to a bit of banter. A Fifer will also post to say that anyone from overseas should be repatriated, and demand the immediate closure of the Forth and Tay road bridges.

Where's my Benzos?

I don't fit into any of those categories but to me the Skacel song is just slightly poor taste banter. Same as comparing someone to gay, fat, ugly or illegitimate people.

The focus of the song is Skacel, the refugee thing is not what the target of the song is about.

I can see where people get the opposite argument but I think that's giving it a stretch that the song didn't intend.

I do think some sing it now because they do think it is racist though but going back to the origins of the song in Dnipro it wasn't that at all.

You do refer to it and dismiss it earlier but shouting at someone as a fat bassa is probably more hurtful and offensive than this.

[--------]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't fit into any of those categories but to me the Skacel song is just slightly poor taste banter. Same as comparing someone to gay, fat, ugly or illegitimate people.

The focus of the song is Skacel, the refugee thing is not what the target of the song is about.

I can see where people get the opposite argument but I think that's giving it a stretch that the song didn't intend.

I do think some sing it now because they do think it is racist though but going back to the origins of the song in Dnipro it wasn't that at all.

You do refer to it and dismiss it earlier but shouting at someone as a fat bassa is probably more hurtful and offensive than this.

Right.

So it's "slightly poor taste banter" to abuse someone because of his or her sexuality, obesity, personal appearance or parentage.

"Pig-faced poofter ******* whale" is "slightly poor taste banter"?

Does this only apply to non-Hibs footballers and football supporters, or is it OK to do this to anyone on any circumstances?

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Simple fact is we can't keep sweeping this kind of crap under the carpet and the sooner we drop the 'OF are worse than us so it's ok' mentality the better.

The Skacel song is embarassing and it's racist, simple as. The Edinburgh song is definitely racist, anyone who says otherwise is just plain stupid.

I was in town on Sunday night and was treated to a group of Hearts fans singing a little ditty that went like this: 'If you cannae do the bouncy you're a taig' apparently they got this idea from Rangers. Unfortunately any attempt to demonise them looks pretty hypocritical when you have morons in your own support singing about refugees, pakis, jews and whatever else.

Words and phrases like fenian *******, taig, paki etc etc just aren't acceptable. This isn't 'PC gone mad' (the most overused and misused phrase in the English language) it's just a fact. The sooner some muppets drag themselves out of the dark ages and realise it's not just banter the better for all concerned IMO.

Good post agree completely.