Fan ownership

**NAE NOOKIE** · 07-02-2011 12:10 PM

Just watched the superbowl, won by a club famously owned by its supporters.

Could it be that Hibs are in a position, more than at any time in the clubs history, where this could become a reality.

We have an owner who bught Hibs to save them rather than own a football club and has a well known philanthropic bent and may be up for such an idea.

With the right safeguards in place, ownership of Hibs could be placed into the hands of a fans trust. The current shares owned by STF could be gifted to the trust with a previso that they can never be sold.

The trust could then have a new share issue with the add on that purchase of shares would be limited to 100 per person at £1 per share, with the add on that this would give you membership of the Hibernian F.C. owners club with a renewal membership fee of £10 per annum.

Wealthy Hibbies or businesses with an interest in helping the club could be shown on a wealthy benefactors list, published by the trust / club with due deference given on match days vis a vis access to facilitis, players etc.

For the bog standard share owners ( like I would be ) the club could fill in the FF / East corner of the ground with an owners club with bars/ restaurants, that sort of thing.

The owners trust would elect a board / chairman every 3 years who would have total control over the day to day running of the clubs dealings on and off the pitch. This hopefully would stop the fans booting out the board every time we sold a player or bought rubbish. They could however be booted at an EGM if they were found to be running the club badly in a business sense.

As the only club of any size in U.K. football to be owned by its supporters we would surely be a more attractive option for new supporters than the likes of the OF or hearts. Just as long as we made sure that the fact was well publicised.

Thoughts ?

***WeAreHibs*** · 07-02-2011 12:26 PM

I like it!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

***hibsforeurope*** · 07-02-2011 01:05 PM

It sounds like a good idea but at those prices it would take something like 250,000 share holders buying 100 shares each to cover the value of the stadium and training ground.

To copy Green Bay's model is a bit ambitious, they have sold out every home for around 50 years and have one of the longest waiting list for season tickets ever (around 60-90 years

:).

Saying that it would be great to have a proper fan run club.

***Keith_M*** · 07-02-2011 02:22 PM

Just out of interest, are Barcelona fan owned or am I getting mixed up?

I'm not actually sure if fan ownership is such a good thing. I much prefer the Benign Dictatorship model. Oh, wait a minute, that's what we have now

**NYHibby** · 07-02-2011 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by keekaboo

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Just out of interest, are Barcelona fan owned or am I getting mixed up?

Aren't they club owned, like most German teams with the exceptions of Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg?

**NYHibby** · 07-02-2011 02:44 PM

STF and Petrie aren't going to give the club away to a trust for free. The club isn't worthless and they would need to get paid for their shares. The way it would probably work is that they sell their shares to a trust and loan the trust the money to pay them. The trust would then repay them over x number of years through a fan share issue and profits from the club. If STF is feeling generous, it could be an interest free loan for such a long term (100 years for example) that it would have minimal impact on the club's cash flow.
All of your values would need to increase by a factor of 10 to be close to workable. Better off Hibs fans will need to put more than £100 in.
Fans don't care who owns the team as long as it does not affect the team's performance. We are not going to suddenly start selling out just because STF switches from being an equity holder to a debt holder.

***greenlex*** · 07-02-2011 02:56 PM

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if STF left his shares to a trust of some sort when he departs this earth. He won't do it while he is still breathing. Petrie won't but that's not an issue for me as long the trust has the majority of shares and is run by supporters with the good of the long term being of the club at heart.

**~~Hibercelona~~** · 07-02-2011 03:24 PM

With the amount of disagreements us lot have..... it would be suicidal.

**Andy74** · 07-02-2011 04:52 PM

Dont see any benefit. Who cares who owns us, the only way to run a club is to pay out just what you get in. We do that now, hopefully we'd do it if we were fan owned too. Dont get the difference it would make.

**~~Phil D. Rolls~~** · 07-02-2011 05:23 PM

Has this ever worked anywhere else in the UK? I'm reminded of that saying, " a man sets out seeking justice and ends up wanting a crown".

How long before the new boss is the same as the old boss?

**TheEastTerrace** · 07-02-2011 05:26 PM

Fan ownership at Barcelona is/was driven by socio-political issues. The club was formed as a figure point for Catalan identity and socialism during the Facist Franco regime, resulting in its members, or cules, 'owning' the club and its board members elected democratically by this body. Therefore, I consider Barca to be an exceptional case in fan ownership models.

However, German clubs, the DFB and government actively embrace supporters via member ownership, with the exception of affliated works teams like Bayer Leverkursen and Wolfsburg. They are seen as associations though and are not viewed as businesses per se. Any money profited by each club is expected to be invested back into the club in some form, not returned to wealthy owners or shareholders as dividends. It means fans have a direct say in the club and its management structure. Whilst not perfect, it seems to work well.

Who knows if it would work in the UK though

***hibee_nation*** · 07-02-2011 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Andy74

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Dont see any benefit. Who cares who owns us, the only way to run a club is to pay out just what you get in. We do that now, hopefully we'd do it if we were fan owned too. Dont get the difference it would make.

It would not make any difference to the way we are run under STF but it would protect us from the likes of Duff and Grey nearly bankrupting us. Good idea in principle.

***Kaiser1962*** · 07-02-2011 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by hibee_nation

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It would not make any difference to the way we are run under STF but it would protect us from the likes of Duff and Grey nearly bankrupting us. Good idea in principle.

I think being owned by STF shields us from the Calum Melvilles of this world. I have no doubt these things begin with the greatest of intentions but it takes a certain toughness to see it through although when STF eventually disposes of his shareholding I believe he will surprise us all.

Fans ownership sounds wonderful but us lot can barely agree on the coulour of the grass.

**ancient hibee** · 07-02-2011 06:32 PM

Nice idea. No thank you.

**Reaper** · 07-02-2011 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by hibsforeurope

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It sounds like a good idea but at those prices it would take something like 250,000 share holders buying 100 shares each to cover the value of the stadium and training ground.

To copy Green Bay's model is a bit ambitious, they have sold out every home for around 50 years and have one of the longest waiting list for season tickets ever (around 60-90 years

:).

Saying that it would be great to have a proper fan run club.

You wouldnae buy any Shares though cos karen wouldnae let ye

**Reaper** · 07-02-2011 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by hibsforeurope

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It sounds like a good idea but at those prices it would take something like 250,000 share holders buying 100 shares each to cover the value of the stadium and training ground.

To copy Green Bay's model is a bit ambitious, they have sold out every home for around 50 years and have one of the longest waiting list for season tickets ever (around 60-90 years

:).

Saying that it would be great to have a proper fan run club.

We'd also have to pay for John Paul Kissocks share lol

**~~Phil D. Rolls~~** · 07-02-2011 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by hibee_nation

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It would not make any difference to the way we are run under STF but it would protect us from the likes of Duff and Grey nearly bankrupting us. Good idea in principle.

In what way would the fans provide more protection against the likes of them than a businessman wanting to protect his asset?

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

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I think being owned by STF shields us from the Calum Melvilles of this world. I have no doubt these things begin with the greatest of intentions but it takes a certain toughness to see it through although when STF eventually disposes of his shareholding I believe he will surprise us all.

Fans ownership sounds wonderful but us lot can barely agree on the coulour of the grass.

That's pretty much it for me.

***One Day Soon*** · 07-02-2011 07:12 PM

Let's see. You are proposing that we, that is to say people such as those who post on here, should mutually own the club?

A big no from me. Benign dictatorship please.

**steviecarnie** · 07-02-2011 08:17 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslate..._claim_fa.html

on the bbc website today weirdly enough

***Viva_Palmeiras*** · 07-02-2011 08:22 PM

"As the only club of any size in U.K. football to be owned by its supporters we would surely be a more attractive option for new supporters than the likes of the OF or hearts. Just as long as we made sure that the fact was well publicised."
A more attractive option how and why ? Surely make no difference. Only difference would be if we were winnIng every week

***jacomo*** · 07-02-2011 09:29 PM

I think this is the ideal model for football club ownership. After all, it's the fans that ultimately are in it for the long term and care about the club.

Whether Hibs could ever pull it off is another matter.

AFC Wimbledon and FC United are great examples of clubs that have done well as fan-owned efforts from the outset.

But the MyFootballClub venture that took over Ebsfleet was a bit of a disaster... a lot of people who backed it out of curiosity for one year just didn't renew their subs.

**NAE NOOKIE** · 07-02-2011 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by loko

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"As the only club of any size in U.K. football to be owned by its supporters we would surely be a more attractive option for new supporters than the likes of the OF or hearts. Just as long as we made sure that the fact was well publicised."
A more attractive option how and why ? Surely make no difference. Only difference would be if we were winnIng every week

I would have thought that supporters would have a greater affinity with a club that they not only supported, but owned.

The Green Bay Packers fans are known for sticking with the club even in the bad times and you cant put that down to just local home team pride in view of the fact that the vast majority of Packer fans dont actually come from Green Bay, a town little bigger than Dundee.

The growth of AFC Utd of Manchester may also be a case in point given that it has grown so big from what was little more than a pressure group.

A massive complaint of most fans is that their clubs see them as little more than customers, though to be fair Hibs aint the worst. Surely the affinity of the fans with the club would be strengthened hugely if we actually owned it, and many future fans would want to be a part of that.

As for the folk on here saying that it is a bad idea coz we cant agree on a lot of things. That is why the fans would vote in the board and perhaps have the odd vote on the bigger matters affecting 'their' club.

Or is it the case that the supporters of this club are too stupid to organise a future Hibernian Football Club run in a sensible and democratic manner ?

***Viva_Palmeiras*** · 08-02-2011 04:25 AM

Maybe just symptomatic of where we are today but I was trying but failing t see where it would make a difference but you make your points well normally I'm quite optimistic so maybe just caught at a Weak moment ;)
The thing we should remember of course is that in us football there is no relegation - at least that was the case before the new frqnchise expansions just after I lost interest too many SF wins it becme tedious

**Lucius Apuleius** · 08-02-2011 06:21 AM

I thought the 'Binos were owned by the fans?

***hibsforeurope*** · 08-02-2011 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Reaper

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You wouldnae buy any Shares though cos karen wouldnae let ye

Aye true, you could buy them though, your minted

Originally Posted by Reaper

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We'd also have to pay for John Paul Kissocks share lol

Haha, he would still keep the shares for himself though.

**~~Phil D. Rolls~~** · 08-02-2011 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lucius Apuleius

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I thought the 'Binos were owned by the fans?

Watch this space.

**GreenCastle** · 08-02-2011 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by steviecarnie

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslate..._claim_fa.html

on the bbc website today weirdly enough

Interesting

**yekimevol** · 08-02-2011 01:51 PM

were we not fan owned before ?

and did we not muck it up ? having a chain of random bars and things ?

then tom farmer came in and saved us !!!!

im happy with the current arrangement !!!

:cgwa

**~~Peevemor~~** · 08-02-2011 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by yekimevol

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were we not fan owned before ?

and did we not muck it up ? having a chain of random bars and things ?

then tom farmer came in and saved us !!!!

im happy with the current arrangement !!!

:cgwa

No.

There was a public share issue, but the majority of the shares were still owned by only 1 or 2 people.