Challenge to Sky?

***ac1*** · 03-02-2011 10:47 AM

Not sure if this has been posted but could be interesting developments for Sky if this goes ahead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12355022

Murdoch might not be to happy and a few premier league clubs could be worried as well if this goes ahead as may well be less cash going about.

***blackpoolhibs*** · 03-02-2011 10:56 AM

Add the illegal feeds that are getting ssssooooooooo much better, the bubble could be bursting very soon for football in England.

**GreenCastle** · 03-02-2011 11:14 AM

Big news

Pubs allowed to show games via foreign feeds.

Could the $ Sky gave the Premiership dry up

**~~down the slope~~** · 03-02-2011 11:25 AM

I wonder if the SPL tv idea is dead in the water now ?.

***ac1*** · 03-02-2011 11:28 AM

Looking into it a bit more it could also see Sky becoming more powerful across Europe

I think they already own the rights in Italy and Germany and would they not then try and buy there way into la liga if they could broadcast across Europe?

Would be strange that a legal issue against Sky could in the long run make them even stronger!

**GreenCastle** · 03-02-2011 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by down the slope

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I wonder if the SPL tv idea is dead in the water now ?.

It was dead before it started

We need people in the stadiums

**aberhibsfc** · 03-02-2011 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by NJ Hibee

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Big news

Pubs allowed to show games via foreign feeds.

Could the $ Sky gave the Premiership dry up

Good,

The inflated artificial monies poured into England, championship too creates wealth for clubs which are even smaller than our own. Eg, Burnley being able to buy a full blown Scotland international striker, Fletcher (we'll he was available for Scotland at the time), for £3.5million. When their town has a population smaller than ER's capacity. The Scunthorpe's etc of Engerland have been punching higher than their weight which is why so many Scottish players go down to play in the lower leagues because they can earn 2 - 3 times more than they will earn at the likes of Hibs. You could argue though, that when it's not just wages, when fees are involved, the likes of Fletcher's fee brings money into the Scottish game. But it does cause a drain in talent when it's purely wages. They are not adverse to nicking a high number of players from SPL on freedom of contract despite their extra dough.

It annoys me further when someone calculated that subscriptions in Scotland for Sky equates to circ £250m per annum that the lion share of this is pumped into English football while we are subjected to price fixing between them and ESPN.

I think that SPL tv could potentially save broadcasting money with more subscription going straight to the clubs but this isn't going to damage Sky. They will be damaged if other organisations can successfully prize the 'non-monoply programme of game tranches' from Sky's grip. That will hurt them, losing the exclusivity would be highly damaging. Though it would be far better for the punter as Sky do have somewhat of a pricing monopoly.

The money down south can't go on for ever, the bigger clubs and EPL will continue to generate interest and wealth, but even there I think the value they are receiving now can't continue and will settle to a more manageable amount.

We can reconstruct all we want, but when the likes of Scunthorpe eventually have to go back to traditional forms of revenue as the money fountain dries up. This could be the biggest success for Scottish football. We will still live in the shadow of the EPL, but it won't cast as long and dark.

Maybe then we will be able to resist the advances of npower champ and lower leagues and be able to combat the wages on offer.

Some of the SPL teams including Hibs are bigger than their npower champ counterparts. Then we will be able to offer salaries as attractive if not better than playing in the lower echelons of English football. The fact that the npower champ division is the 4th richest division in football is down to tv money and is a joke. When the dust settles it will be us snapping players up from Burnley and not the other way around.

**steviecarnie** · 03-02-2011 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by archiecoby

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Looking into it a bit more it could also see Sky becoming more powerful across Europe

I think they already own the rights in Italy and Germany and would they not then try and buy there way into la liga if they could broadcast across Europe?

Would be strange that a legal issue against Sky could in the long run make them even stronger!

I thought that too, with spanish teams in the manure big time with debt, could sky now swoop in like a knight in shiny armour and offer ridiculous money to the other clubs, who im sure are now banding together instead of negociating seperately.

**GreenCastle** · 03-02-2011 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by archiecoby

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Looking into it a bit more it could also see Sky becoming more powerful across Europe

I think they already own the rights in Italy and Germany and would they not then try and buy there way into la liga if they could broadcast across Europe?

Would be strange that a legal issue against Sky could in the long run make them even stronger!

No I don't see this happening due to freetrade across the EU.

La Liga T.V rights are a bit messed up right now as Barcelona and Madrid have the power = gap between top 2 and 3rd grows - sound familiar ?

**bighairyfaeleith** · 03-02-2011 11:48 AM

Sky will just buy the premiership rights for the whole of europe. Simple enough and given the amount of money the give the premiership they are not going to object.

Watch out for Aljazeera though!!!

**CB_NO3** · 03-02-2011 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by steviecarnie

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I thought that too, with spanish teams in the manure big time with debt, could sky now swoop in like a knight in shiny armour and offer ridiculous money to the other clubs, who im sure are now banding together instead of negociating seperately.

No one really wants to watch any other spanish games besides the top 3. Real Madrid and Barca are on Sky every week anyway as they negotiate their own deals. Sky already have rights to Italian football. The EPL is the biggest commercial league worldwide and thats Sky's bread and butter so if the EU do say you can broadcast with any company then its great news for Scottish football fans.

***Green_one*** · 03-02-2011 12:33 PM

Not sure I understand the ruling, let alone its impact.

The Greek channel could surely not have been transmitting games into the UK legally. They would not have a license and certainly would not have the right to broadcast EPL. I cannot see how one company who has not paid for the rights to a product has the right to compete with the buyer. If that is true then Sky and many other franchises are wasting their time and football has no-one to sell its product to, as anyone can just broadcast it. Thats anarchy. I hate Sky but they have the right to conduct normal commercial activities. The fact the comptetitor is Greek, a country which has almost no respect for most European rulings, is also irritating.

What contract did the Greek company have? What cameras or equipment did it have at the game? Was it just taking a feed, possibly legitimately and rebroadcasting it to an area it had no right to? The 'I use it cause its cheaper' applies to a range of dubious activities.

***Arch Stanton*** · 03-02-2011 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Green_one

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............
What contract did the Greek company have? What cameras or equipment did it have at the game? Was it just taking a feed, possibly legitimately and rebroadcasting it to an area it had no right to? The 'I use it cause its cheaper' applies to a range of dubious activities.

That's what confuses me too - if the EPL has given the sole rights to SKy then the only feeds coming out of grounds should be from Sky and have the Sky logo on them, no?

The ruling seems to suggest that the transmission from Greece is a perfectly legal one presumably encrypted since the pub had a card (I think I heard that said).

Talk about confused

***Leith Green*** · 03-02-2011 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by archiecoby

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Looking into it a bit more it could also see Sky becoming more powerful across Europe

I think they already own the rights in Italy and Germany and would they not then try and buy there way into la liga if they could broadcast across Europe?

Would be strange that a legal issue against Sky could in the long run make them even stronger!

Yeah but SKY only own the rights for Spanish la liga in this country, Spanish broadcaster will own the rights in Spain, same with ESPN and serie A and bundesliga etc etc..

***ac1*** · 03-02-2011 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Leith Green

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Yeah but SKY only own the rights for Spanish la liga in this country, Spanish broadcaster will own the rights in Spain, same with ESPN and serie A and bundesliga etc etc..

So do Sky get paid by ESPN to broadcast the German and Italian games that are shown here?

**pogo** · 03-02-2011 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by crabit

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That's what confuses me too - if the EPL has given the sole rights to SKy then the only feeds coming out of grounds should be from Sky and have the Sky logo on them, no?

The ruling seems to suggest that the transmission from Greece is a perfectly legal one presumably encrypted since the pub had a card (I think I heard that said).

Talk about confused

The way that TV broadcast works for a match is this:-

The host broadcaster (the one who has the cameras, etc. at the match) provides various audio and video feeds, one of these is their feed with all the various graphics, VT pieces on, and audio with their commentators, VT audio, pitch and crowd effects.
They may also provide a 'clean' video feed of match cameras, with no graphics, etc., and International Sound audio (this is basically the pitch and crowd effects). This feed can go off to another Outside Broadcast truck, where they can mix in their own cameras and audio for interviews, VT pieces, and commentators. This would normally be how Champions League, Europa Cup, and International Matches work. ( I recently did this for Norwegian TV for Ireland vs Norway).
For smaller companies, smaller matches, and highlights packages, the 'clean' video and audio is sent via satellite to a studio, where they can mix in their own commentary in studio, adding in their own VT pieces.

Does this clear it up??

***Arch Stanton*** · 03-02-2011 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by pogo

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Does this clear it up??

THanks for imfo - I'm always curious about such stuff.

The other thing I learned from the radio news is that the EPL sells it's games to different countries intending that the people in Greece buy from the Greece company of course (and also allowing them to show live 3pm games on Sat I presume).

So, this does rather put the EPL in a pickle, I'd say. If Sky's income is reduced in this way it will surely want to pay them less (or alternatively ask them not broadcast to other EU countries?)

**PeeJay** · 03-02-2011 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Leith Green

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Yeah but SKY only own the rights for Spanish la liga in this country, Spanish broadcaster will own the rights in Spain, same with ESPN and serie A and bundesliga etc etc..

Sky Deutschland owns the rights to most Bundesliga games and most CL games - the company previously known as Premier was bought out by Murdoch's company because it was making a huge loss here in Germany - still does as far as I'm aware even when now called SKY.

Germans will not watch as much football on tv as seems to be the case in the UK - we spent years watching important games live on free-to-air and now we won't subscribe in the necessary numbers to watch football on some crummy/overpriced subscription setup. If they show Champions League on Sky - we go to the pub or don't bother (most of us, that is).

Murdoch kann mich mal!

**pogo** · 03-02-2011 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by crabit

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THanks for imfo - I'm always curious about such stuff.

The other thing I learned from the radio news is that the EPL sells it's games to different countries intending that the people in Greece buy from the Greece company of course (and also allowing them to show live 3pm games on Sat I presume).

So, this does rather put the EPL in a pickle, I'd say. If Sky's income is reduced in this way it will surely want to pay them less (or alternatively ask them not broadcast to other EU countries?)

The problem here is that they can't physically not transmit to other EU countries.

If you can pick up the satellite broadcasting the signal, normally requiring a larger diameter dish, then assuming you have a decoder with a valid card, there is nothing to stop you watching it.

I have 2 Sky boxes, both completely standard, one has a card for Southern Ireland, the other is a Free-to-Air card purchased by a friend of mine in Scotland. Some programmes on Ch.4 are not available in Southern Ireland, and because of the Irish card in the box, I get a message on the screen saying it is unavailable. If however I switch over to the other box, not a problem!
The box doesn't know where it is, the card has all the info for those channels

If you buy a card from any other country and put it in the relevant decoder, hey presto!!!

It's just a shame I can't do the same for the internet broadcasts of Hibs matches

***Bishop Hibee*** · 03-02-2011 04:13 PM

I'm convinced Murdoch's end game is a European League similar to the American Football set up in the US. This will be done with or without UEFA/FIFA's consent.

Sky will have full rights of course.

**GreenCastle** · 03-02-2011 09:22 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond...v_doomsda.html

Little more on it here

**Joe Baker II** · 04-02-2011 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by aberhibsfc

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Good,

The inflated artificial monies poured into England, championship too creates wealth for clubs which are even smaller than our own. Eg, Burnley being able to buy a full blown Scotland international striker, Fletcher (we'll he was available for Scotland at the time), for £3.5million. When their town has a population smaller than ER's capacity. The Scunthorpe's etc of Engerland have been punching higher than their weight which is why so many Scottish players go down to play in the lower leagues because they can earn 2 - 3 times more than they will earn at the likes of Hibs. You could argue though, that when it's not just wages, when fees are involved, the likes of Fletcher's fee brings money into the Scottish game. But it does cause a drain in talent when it's purely wages. They are not adverse to nicking a high number of players from SPL on freedom of contract despite their extra dough.

It annoys me further when someone calculated that subscriptions in Scotland for Sky equates to circ £250m per annum that the lion share of this is pumped into English football while we are subjected to price fixing between them and ESPN.

I think that SPL tv could potentially save broadcasting money with more subscription going straight to the clubs but this isn't going to damage Sky. They will be damaged if other organisations can successfully prize the 'non-monoply programme of game tranches' from Sky's grip. That will hurt them, losing the exclusivity would be highly damaging. Though it would be far better for the punter as Sky do have somewhat of a pricing monopoly.

The money down south can't go on for ever, the bigger clubs and EPL will continue to generate interest and wealth, but even there I think the value they are receiving now can't continue and will settle to a more manageable amount.

We can reconstruct all we want, but when the likes of Scunthorpe eventually have to go back to traditional forms of revenue as the money fountain dries up. This could be the biggest success for Scottish football. We will still live in the shadow of the EPL, but it won't cast as long and dark.

Maybe then we will be able to resist the advances of npower champ and lower leagues and be able to combat the wages on offer.

Some of the SPL teams including Hibs are bigger than their npower champ counterparts. Then we will be able to offer salaries as attractive if not better than playing in the lower echelons of English football. The fact that the npower champ division is the 4th richest division in football is down to tv money and is a joke. When the dust settles it will be us snapping players up from Burnley and not the other way around.

I hope you are right but not that optimistic as fear the enemy that is English football will avoid the outcome of this by selling rights across the EU hence reducing the impact ,and also fear it may lead to more English games being shown at 3pm, which will have some impact on Scottish attendances.

As you say you have to query the mentality of Scots who pay for SKY/ESPN - though BBC just as bad in its anti-Scottish racism through showing English football on a Saturday and Sunday night because it will not pay a decent sum for Scottish football rights.

***lucky*** · 04-02-2011 02:54 PM

This ruling is more to do with the pub trade but could effect home viewers too. Sky for years have over charged them to broadcast matches. From the legal advice given, not a ruling yet, is that any person can buy services from any provider from within the EU. So the Greeks have bought the rights to show games in Greece but anyone with a satellite dish and decoder and card can show the games having purchased it from the Greek TV channel. It will end rights for each country and could force associations to a Europe wide TV deal or an individual club deals. A Europe wide deal would effect EPL. At present they get £600m from Sky from British customers and around £66m from Europe. So its clear that the EPL bubble is going to burst but probably not for a few years yet.
EUFA are desperate to do the EPL in, as such with try and force a TV deal across Europe

**Sas_The_Hibby** · 04-02-2011 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by aberhibsfc

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Good,

The inflated artificial monies poured into England, championship too creates wealth for clubs which are even smaller than our own. Eg, Burnley being able to buy a full blown Scotland international striker, Fletcher (we'll he was available for Scotland at the time), for £3.5million. When their town has a population smaller than ER's capacity. .................................................. ............

That's good news that our stadium capacity is now over 73,000!

***cocopops1875*** · 04-02-2011 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Sas_The_Hibby

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That's good news that our stadium capacity is now over 73,000!

aye was wondering if someone would pull that up lol

**hibsbollah** · 04-02-2011 06:05 PM

I can't pretend to really grasp all the implications of this ruling. But its always amusing when self-proclaimed champions of free market capitalism get taken down a peg or two by the very free market principles that they supposedly cherish

.

Murdoch is an old fashioned monopolist, no more, no less.

Removed · 04-02-2011 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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Add the illegal feeds that are getting ssssooooooooo much better, the bubble could be bursting very soon for football in England.

I just log on and connect my laptop to the tv via hdmi. Nearly as good a pic on big telly as terrestrial tv and its free

**~~Hibernia Na Eir~~** · 04-02-2011 09:27 PM

'Bout time England was brought down to planet earth.

With all their mental debts, i can see a good few top clubs folding. Cant say im bothered as they are obviously living way beyond their means and have been for decades.

Bring on Taliban TV Saturdays

(the pub ethusiasts choice)

**~~Hibernia Na Eir~~** · 04-02-2011 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by lucky

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This ruling is more to do with the pub trade but could effect home viewers too. Sky for years have over charged them to broadcast matches. From the legal advice given, not a ruling yet, is that any person can buy services from any provider from within the EU. So the Greeks have bought the rights to show games in Greece but anyone with a satellite dish and decoder and card can show the games having purchased it from the Greek TV channel. It will end rights for each country and could force associations to a Europe wide TV deal or an individual club deals. A Europe wide deal would effect EPL. At present they get £600m from Sky from British customers and around £66m from Europe. So its clear that the EPL bubble is going to burst but probably not for a few years yet.
EUFA are desperate to do the EPL in, as such with try and force a TV deal across Europe

after losing all that money after the smoking ban, this could be just what the pubs need and it would get more punters in on Saturday afternoons. Heck, they could show porn too and keep us all happy