Mr Petrie - Can he Prove Gordon Waddell Wrong

[AlbertK86]

Just read an article in the Sunday Mail where Waddell accused Rod of being a control freak basically.

Welcome to the real world... has he just noticed !!!

He makes the point that despite raking in millions for our top players over the years time and again only a tiny fraction has been re-invested in replacing them.

Once again this season over a million in for Stokes, Bamba and Zemmama and only £80k paid out. aye you could argue about wages but I bet there wages will more than cover who we have brought in.

He also made the point about Calderwood not being allowed to bring in his own tried and trusted assistance and that Rod decided who his assistance would be. I noticed a few weeks ago that the chemistry does not seem to be there between CC and DA and it looked to me as if DA was pushing to get subs on at Ayr but CC wasn't for it.

Liked all CCs new signings yesterday and believe if he is allowed to do it his way he can build a decent team.

All we need now is for ROD PETRIE to prove Waddell wrong and invest today to back his manager and keep us in the top flight. Mass clearout in the summer thereafter.

ROD IF YOU SHIRK YOUR DUTY TO THE FANS AND YOUR MANAGER THEN YOU SHOULD BE AS MR WADDELL HINTS ...... OUT THE DOOR

[greenlex]

Another hack peddling the same lines. Do any of them have anything original to say?

[khib70]

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Another hack peddling the same lines. Do any of them have anything original to say?

Of course it never occurred to you that all these people might be saying because it's true?

Thought not.

[AlbertK86]

Greenlex

I totally agree with you about it being an old story but ROD is killing our club. All the money taken in will be of no significance if we end up relegated.

The drop in income would swallow up any money we have taken in for the great young lads reared by us.

We are in dire straits and need to stop the rot.

Invest a few hundered thousand and keep us up makes financial sense to me

[greenlex]

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Of course it never occurred to you that all these people might be saying because it's true?

Thought not.

Each and every one of them put a miserly Petrie slant on it. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you want to lap up what's in the press crack on. I have no intention of getting into another pointless debate with you or anyone else about this so I am out.

[Keith_M]

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Just read an article in the Sunday Mail where Waddell accused Rod of being a control freak basically.
...
...
...
All we need now is for ROD PETRIE to prove Waddell wrong and invest today to back his manager and keep us in the top flight. Mass clearout in the summer thereafter.

ROD IF YOU SHIRK YOUR DUTY TO THE FANS AND YOUR MANAGER THEN YOU SHOULD BE AS MR WADDELL HINTS ...... OUT THE DOOR

Hi Gordon.

Are you THAT short of ideas on what to put in your articles? You could at least have come on here under your real name.

[khib70]

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Greenlex

I totally agree with you about it being an old story but ROD is killing our club. All the money taken in will be of no significance if we end up relegated.

The drop in income would swallow up any money we have taken in for the great young lads reared by us.

We are in dire straits and need to stop the rot.

Invest a few hundered thousand and keep us up makes financial sense to me

....but it appears some people just don't want to hear it.

(fingers in ears and going la la la smilie)

[steakbake]

I think to be fair to the Board, we need to be reasonable in our expectations about how much money there really is at ER to throw around and buy in "names".

However, Petrie's record of bringing in management is appalling. Ideally for a club like us, management teams should leave after a period of time of being with the club and we should expect our managers to move on to bigger and better things when these come up - a la Mowbray for example.

However, to have sacked as many managers as we have in recent years is unbelievable and hints that those running the club don't necessarily know how to do so.

[The Falcon]

Can Gordon Waddell provide evidence, other than gossip and hearsay, that what HE says is correct?

Petrie is the 2nd largest shareholder with the full support of the major shareholder. Contrary to popular opinion we are not a democracy and if this means that Rod is, basically, not returning some hacks calls or answering their stupid unsubstantiated allegations, then more power to him.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If the unthinkable happens and we go down, the Petrie's job as Chairman would be untenable IMO.

[Arch Stanton]

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Just read an article in the Sunday Mail where Waddell accused Rod of being a control freak basically.

Welcome to the real world... has he just noticed !!!

He makes the point that despite raking in millions for our top players over the years time and again only a tiny fraction has been re-invested in replacing them.

Once again this season over a million in for Stokes, Bamba and Zemmama and only £80k paid out. aye you could argue about wages but I bet there wages will more than cover who we have brought in.

He also made the point about Calderwood not being allowed to bring in his own tried and trusted assistance and that Rod decided who his assistance would be. I noticed a few weeks ago that the chemistry does not seem to be there between CC and DA and it looked to me as if DA was pushing to get subs on at Ayr but CC wasn't for it.

Liked all CCs new signings yesterday and believe if he is allowed to do it his way he can build a decent team.

All we need now is for ROD PETRIE to prove Waddell wrong and invest today to back his manager and keep us in the top flight. Mass clearout in the summer thereafter.

ROD IF YOU SHIRK YOUR DUTY TO THE FANS AND YOUR MANAGER THEN YOU SHOULD BE AS MR WADDELL HINTS ...... OUT THE DOOR

I suspect Mr Waddell knowledge of cask conditioned ale far exceeds his knowledge of football finances.

What he fails to appreciate that money from player sales could be used to finance player acquisitions, it could also be used to make up that part of the wage bill that isn't covered by other income. What it CANNOT be used for is BOTH!!

The following shows this point graphically -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...0/profits2.htm

I have come to the conclusion that people who comment on club finances but who don't cover wages to turnover ratio or amortisation are just timewasters.

As regards amortisation, there is nothing to stop a manager buying players if he wished to go for quality rather than bulk. The following link, albeit about Celtic, explains this -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

Here is the Hibs one -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Greenlex

I totally agree with you about it being an old story but ROD is killing our club. All the money taken in will be of no significance if we end up relegated.

The drop in income would swallow up any money we have taken in for the great young lads reared by us.

We are in dire straits and need to stop the rot.

Invest a few hundered thousand and keep us up makes financial sense to me

Welcome to the board mate, but Waddell is hardly saying anything we didn't already know. Actually, I take that back, he has done a spectacular U turn from his previous articles on Mr Petrie, as he used to say that the Tache was running the club well and was a model for other teams to follow.

Of course that was before his best mate John Hughes got the bullet. He now comes out with an article that could have been written by cutting and pasting from Hibs.net.

I think all the stuff about the death of the club is more than a little premature to be honest. If we were 38 million in debt and facing the drop, then we'd have a lot more to worry about. Whatever happens, Hibs will come through this.

It just seems to me, that people are not giving the board credit for all the good things they have done, and are being a wee bit short termist - we aren't even down yet FFS.

[PaulSmith]

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Can Gordon Waddell provide evidence, other than gossip and hearsay, that what HE says is correct?

Petrie is the 2nd largest shareholder with the full support of the major shareholder. Contrary to popular opinion we are not a democracy and if this means that Rod is, basically, not returning some hacks calls or answering their stupid unsubstantiated allegations, then more power to him.

Personally the allegations made by Waddell are slanderous and potentially libellous, I'd be very interested in hearing our Chairmans comments on several of these matters. GW has printed as a matter of fact certain aspects that should be the sole control of the football manager of the club, I believe that GW is friendly with Hughes from his time at Falkirk and would hope that what is printed is factually incorrect but it would certainly help to explain recent comments from ex managers.

re not a democracy, yes but can you remind Rod (the next time your down at East Mains) that he is simply the current custodian of our football club

[Sammy7nil]

Does anyone have a link to the article ?

[Beefster]

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Does anyone have a link to the article ?

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/gordo...d-of-iron.html

I don't doubt that most of it is true.

[down the slope]

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Can Gordon Waddell provide evidence, other than gossip and hearsay, that what HE says is correct?

Petrie is the 2nd largest shareholder with the full support of the major shareholder. Contrary to popular opinion we are not a democracy and if this means that Rod is, basically, not returning some hacks calls or answering their stupid unsubstantiated allegations, then more power to him.

More power to him !, have a look at the league table.

[RIP]

Having read the article - it looks like an increasing amount of people within Scottish Football (Columnists, Managers, Players and Fans) are coming to the conclusion that at Hibs - the manager doesn't have the correct relationship with the Chairman

Yet many of us have such blind allegiance to Mr Petrie that we see his role as above question

I've said it before that it's become a convenient excuse for Mr Petrie to end the contract of the first-team coach. In doing so that person becomes the patsy, the fall guy for all the ills at the Football Club

Yet Rod, who is really in charge, carries on regardless as do the board

How many more managers must be sacrificed before we find out what's really going on?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Having read the article - it looks like an increasing amount of people within Scottish Football (Columnists, Managers, Players and Fans) are coming to the conclusion that at Hibs - the manager doesn't have the correct relationship with the Chairman

Yet many of us have such blind allegiance to Mr Petrie that we see his role as above question

I've said it before that it's become a convenient excuse for Mr Petrie to end the contract of the first-team coach. In doing so that person becomes the patsy, the fall guy for all the ills at the Football Club

Yet Rod, who is really in charge, carries on regardless as do the board

How many more managers must be sacrificed before we find out what's really going on?

Who are these people, Gordon Waddell is a mouthpiece for Yogi. Are these the "real fitba folk" that were hinted at by our hugely (un)successful ex manager during the last days of his madness?

[Ray_]

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I suspect Mr Waddell knowledge of cask conditioned ale far exceeds his knowledge of football finances.

What he fails to appreciate that money from player sales could be used to finance player acquisitions, it could also be used to make up that part of the wage bill that isn't covered by other income. What it CANNOT be used for is BOTH!!

The following shows this point graphically -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...0/profits2.htm

I have come to the conclusion that people who comment on club finances but who don't cover wages to turnover ratio or amortisation are just timewasters.

As regards amortisation, there is nothing to stop a manager buying players if he wished to go for quality rather than bulk. The following link, albeit about Celtic, explains this -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

Here is the Hibs one -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

So the quality of the staff & the way we perform doesn't affect turnover? We can go right down to the third division & pay appropriate wages and be in profit every season, without having to sell players, season on season, but then we would rarely have anybody worth selling, [much like the position we have almost reached now]. I think people who can't incorporate growth within their figures are time-wasters & I happen to believe that is why we are in such poor nick now.

[RIP]

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Who are these people, Gordon Waddell is a mouthpiece for Yogi. Are these the "real fitba folk" that were hinted at by our hugely (un)successful ex manager during the last days of his madness?

• The manager who was undermined by Petrie and asked to pick his signings from a pot of names supplied by agents?
• The manager who is now doing a fine job at Kille without the constraints he had at ER?
• The manager who only had 3 of his first picks signed by Petrie?
• The manager who had his assistant picked by Petrie as succession planning?
• Former players who are now speaking out?
• Journalists who are now speaking out?

Given the nature of confidentiality agreements you would expect everybody to keep quiet? But an increasing number and speaking out. Why is this - if there's nothing to see.

Maybe we should just believe?

[Arch Stanton]

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So the quality of the staff & the way we perform doesn't affect turnover? We can go right down to the third division & pay appropriate wages and be in profit every season, without having to sell players, season on season, but then we would rarely have anybody worth selling, [much like the position we have almost reached now]. I think people who can't incorporate growth within their figures are time-wasters & I happen to believe that is why we are in such poor nick now.

Some day there might be computers with logic checkers as well as spell checkers, and maybe then we will hear the last of the twaddle spoken about ambition and growth and investment for that's all it is, twaddle.

Mind you at least that bit is comprehensible unlike the guff that precedes it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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• The manager who was undermined by Petrie and asked to pick his signings from a pot of names supplied by agents?
• The manager who is now doing a fine job at Kille without the constraints he had at ER?
• The manager who only had 3 of his first picks signed by Petrie?
• The manager who had his assistant picked by Petrie as succession planning?
• Former players who are now speaking out?
• Journalists who are now speaking out?

Given the nature of confidentiality agreements you would expect everybody to keep quiet? But an increasing number and speaking out. Why is this - if there's nothing to see.

Maybe we should just believe?

Jeez, I am starting to sound like an apologist for Petrie here. All I am saying is that those speaking out are hardly impartial, and so maybe a pinch of salt is needed.

If Petrie has been lying to the shareholders he would be in trouble. If players, managers and their pals get mixed up about the facts, they can just pass it off as a mistake.

Jackie MacNamara had something to say, when was he last in the Hibs boardroom, I think Kano and Keith Wright have also been accredited with remarks, again how close to the club are they?

Just take a look at some of the rubbish Gary MacKay has been coming out with for years about his beloved Hearts - players aren't the sharpest tools in the box. Yet their word is taken as gospel.

I am not saying nothing is going on, I am wanting to see more reliable evidence before I decide.

[AlbertK86]

Contrary to what some people might think at the beginning of the thread I would take everything each and every journalists says with a large pinch of salt.

I would not believe them if they told me that each new day started after midnight !

However as has been said already by others why do we go through so many managers who can't and aren't as bad prior to or after they leave Hibs.

On this occasion Mr waddell has a point .... all are restrcited by Rod 'I rule the roost' Petrie

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Contrary to what some people might think at the beginning of the thread I would take everything each and every journalists says with a large pinch of salt.

I would not believe them if they told me that each new day started after midnight !

However as has been said already by others why do we go through so many managers who can't and aren't as bad prior to or after they leave Hibs.

On this occasion Mr waddell has a point .... all are restrcited by Rod 'I rule the roost' Petrie

Well, Mixu previously managed Cowdenbeath, so he was at a lower level. By his own admission he wasn't ready for Hibs, and took a year out to reflect and learn more.

Collins and Mowbray had never managed before, Collins hasn't managed since, and Mowbray has had mixed fortunes again at a higher level.

Hughes was pretty awful at Falkirk, was awful at Hibs, and hasn't exactly been fighting off new clubs with a stick. So really your facts don't stack up.

Not saying they are not restricted by the chairman, it happens at a lot of clubs. Look at Hearts - the owner was actually picking the team and deciding on substitutes.

They are a bunch of plonkers though, and I would hate the only positive thing about Hibs to be that they are not in as bad a mess as Hearts. I'm sure you'll agree that we wouldn't want that, I mean Hearts are just horrible, aren't they?

[Arch Stanton]

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Contrary to what some people might think at the beginning of the thread I would take everything each and every journalists says with a large pinch of salt.

I would not believe them if they told me that each new day started after midnight !

However as has been said already by others why do we go through so many managers who can't and aren't as bad prior to or after they leave Hibs.

On this occasion Mr waddell has a point .... all are restrcited by Rod 'I rule the roost' Petrie

I guess that's as good a piece of fiction as any.

Personally I reckon that managers come to Hibs thinking that they will make Hibs into the huge club it deserves to be and then bring in loads of players to give themselves a nice big pool of players to choose from.

Mixu is doing better at Kilmarnock with less funds available than he had at at ER - how exactly did RP muck it up for him when he was here?

[bawheid]

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They are a bunch of plonkers though, and I would hate the only positive thing about Hibs to be that they are not in as bad a mess as Hearts. I'm sure you'll agree that we wouldn't want that, I mean Hearts are just horrible, aren't they?

The insistance on calling everyone Mr is the giveaway.

[greenlex]

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• The manager who was undermined by Petrie and asked to pick his signings from a pot of names supplied by agents? Do you think the following players were supplied to Hibs managers in that manner? Sheils Murphy O'Brien Jonieliet McBride Cregg Stokes Riordan Duffy
• The manager who is now doing a fine job at Kille without the constraints he had at ER? Not what I have heard from a first team player. Still doesnt have a plan B. He will get caught out eventually
• The manager who only had 3 of his first picks signed by Petrie? Name names
• The manager who had his assistant picked by Petrie as succession planning? Pure speculation.
• Former players who are now speaking out? Name names
• Journalists who are now speaking out? Wouldnt believe any of them pro or anti board.

Given the nature of confidentiality agreements you would expect everybody to keep quiet? But an increasing number and speaking out. Why is this - if there's nothing to see.

Maybe we should just believe?

.

[Removed]

FR - I thought Collins went to Belgium not long after he walked out on us?

[Greenblood70]

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I suspect Mr Waddell knowledge of cask conditioned ale far exceeds his knowledge of football finances.

What he fails to appreciate that money from player sales could be used to finance player acquisitions, it could also be used to make up that part of the wage bill that isn't covered by other income. What it CANNOT be used for is BOTH!!

The following shows this point graphically -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...0/profits2.htm

I have come to the conclusion that people who comment on club finances but who don't cover wages to turnover ratio or amortisation are just timewasters.

As regards amortisation, there is nothing to stop a manager buying players if he wished to go for quality rather than bulk. The following link, albeit about Celtic, explains this -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

Here is the Hibs one -
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/...rtisation2.htm

Interesting links, thanks for posting.

Looking at the "Payroll" section I was interested to note this paragraph -

"The Hibs directors take over 10% of the club income. The next highest figure in Scottish football is Aberdeen at 4%, for the rest of the clubs it is under 2%. Clearly the Hibs board values itself far higher than any other."

Is there any reason for this or anything to put in perspective or is it as black and white as it's painted on that link?

No wonder Smurf does his nut at the £500k we're shelling out versus performance!!

[Ray_]

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Some day there might be computers with logic checkers as well as spell checkers, and maybe then we will hear the last of the twaddle spoken about ambition and growth and investment for that's all it is, twaddle.

Mind you at least that bit is comprehensible unlike the guff that precedes it.

Your logical mind didn't teach you anything about manners did it, do you always get insulting when a differing opinion is offered, might be because, no matter what, you are always right?

So, tell us mere mortals that only have facts to guide us, what part of this logical path are we now?

Anyway, my limited observation tells me that without players sales the club would have been losing money and with our buying policy, we have little left to sell. And if we add the fact that as a business, we have a product that's so poor, even season ticket holders can't be bothered going, crowds are drifting away, merchandising & hospitality seriously down.

So where do you think we are going wrong or is this all part of the master-plan, or are you that blinkered in front of that computer of yours, trying to figure out how you can incorporate a logical link, you can't see what's happening in the real world?