Towell De Graff & Relegation

[Speedway]

Three questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone agree with me that a 19 year old Celtic Reserve with 1 first team game to his credit looked sharper, fitter, hungrier and more football minded than the rest of our team? Real shame he blotted his copy book or else it would have been a strong debut.

2. Does anyone agree that De Graff, whilst of no use to us whatsoever, rarely misplaces a pass and whilst he has a Tigana-like allergy to holding on to the ball, has decided his pass before he even receives the ball?

3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

[truehibernian]

I liked Towell and thought he was excellent, and including the mishap with the backpass. Good going forward, always looking to get the ball moving, decisive and what a throw the lad has. It's as good as a corner or set piece when we get to the edge of the opposition box. The backpass was poor, but for a 19 year old to get the chin up and continue where he left off is encouraging. Good to see the crowd give both Booth and Towell some much needed encouragement.

De Graaf......can't agree Speedway. Yes he passes, but it's side to side and not to anyone in any real penetrating area. It's hurried. He also doesn't track back, and unless the pitch suddenly became the size of a matchbox, he is most definitely not the "box to box" midfielder that was promised.

Relegation.......because of my love of Hibernan, it wouldn't matter to me if they were in the East of Scotland league, I would still support them. But realistically, we are better than that and we should be challenging year in year out for honours and Euro places. We have a soft soft underbelly, a lack of real discipline, and more crucially a lack or real determined leadership on the pitch.....and that includes having players that are unanimously respected by all around them. There is no "fear factor" at Hibs.....it's still touchy feely, smiles and jokes........I was angry last night but have simmered, but when you see young Derek laughing and joking on the bench when you are 2-0 down and looking like you are on the end of a humping, for me, it shows a real lack of understanding and sorry (I know it sounds dinosaury) a lack of respect. I would be utterly raging and face tripping me. Maybe I am just being too harsh.....who knows.

[BEEJ]

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3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

How many seasons do you think it would take us to clamber back into the 10 team SPL?

What would the financial consequences of this next 'great adventure' be for the club?

[Wakeyhibee]

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Three questions for discussion:
3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

About £2-3m lighter than we are already in contracts to be honoured with a lack of TV revenue

Would give RP an excuse to stay on longer to create more financial stability (conveniently forgetting its his investments that got us here)

Any new prospects coming through if there are any would be sold even more quickly than they do now to balance the books.

Meanwhile we would be promised new faces only to get Darlingtons reserve CB or Halifax's 3rd string potwasher.

The additional debt would neatly dovetail into when the mortage repayments on the stands start negating for 5 years any investment in the team.

After that another 10 year cyclical relegation puts us a further £5m in debt so no more investment in the team.

After that the training facility will be out of date and need replacing - no more investment in the team.

After that man steps foot on Pluto - RP invests in cold training facilities on Pluto - Another Hibernian First but no new players FFS !!!!!

After that Hibs win the 2120 Scottish Cup playing 1-1-8 attacking football against an All Star Mars select XI in zero gravity.

.....I'm all for relegation if RP can see that far into the future

[lucky]

I agree Towell looked the part. de Gaffer can play football but does not have the pace for the SPL. Relegation will seriously harm Hibs as such we much spend a little to stay up

[brog]

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Three questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone agree with me that a 19 year old Celtic Reserve with 1 first team game to his credit looked sharper, fitter, hungrier and more football minded than the rest of our team? Real shame he blotted his copy book or else it would have been a strong debut.

2. Does anyone agree that De Graff, whilst of no use to us whatsoever, rarely misplaces a pass and whilst he has a Tigana-like allergy to holding on to the ball, has decided his pass before he even receives the ball?

3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

Good post, I thought Towell was excellent & I thought De Graff did well also, mind you that may be because he replaced McBride who turned in the most inept 45 minutes in a Hibs jersey that I can remember. In fact, that may be the best news from last night because I doubt we'll ever see K McB play for Hibs again. afraid I can't agree with point 3 although I understand the sentiments.

[Cropley10]

Good OP.

Towell - looking forward to seeing more of him, hopefully we can swap him for Hart plus cash.

De Graff - last night edge of their box, back to goal, goes to play a 1-2 but the other player doesn't continue his run. He must think at time WTF. Likewise when he and Hanlon kept passing to each other - I think Ed was saying pass it out wide, to Booth, Galbraith... I'd really like him to come good, but he can't run properly.

Relegation - no thanks. Only if it meant we learned what got us there and changed things. We should be nowhere near relegation.

[greenlex]

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Good OP.

Towell - looking forward to seeing more of him, hopefully we can swap him for Hart plus cash.

De Graff - last night edge of their box, back to goal, goes to play a 1-2 but the other player doesn't continue his run. He must think at time WTF. Likewise when he and Hanlon kept passing to each other - I think Ed was saying pass it out wide, to Booth, Galbraith... I'd really like him to come good, but he can't run properly.

Relegation - no thanks. Only if it meant we learned what got us there and changed things. We should be nowhere near relegation.

Agree with entire post.
There is a football brain in DeGraff but the body isnt in sync with it.

[Cropley10]

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Agree with entire post.

Incredible!

[greenlex]

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Incredible!

Couldnt believe it myself as I was typing it.

[IFONLY]

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Good OP.

Towell - looking forward to seeing more of him, hopefully we can swap him for Hart plus cash.

De Graff - last night edge of their box, back to goal, goes to play a 1-2 but the other player doesn't continue his run. He must think at time WTF. Likewise when he and Hanlon kept passing to each other - I think Ed was saying pass it out wide, to Booth, Galbraith... I'd really like him to come good, but he can't run properly.

Relegation - no thanks. Only if it meant we learned what got us there and changed things. We should be nowhere near relegation.

Oh aye Celtic would really want/need Hart

[IFONLY]

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Three questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone agree with me that a 19 year old Celtic Reserve with 1 first team game to his credit looked sharper, fitter, hungrier and more football minded than the rest of our team? Real shame he blotted his copy book or else it would have been a strong debut.

2. Does anyone agree that De Graff, whilst of no use to us whatsoever, rarely misplaces a pass and whilst he has a Tigana-like allergy to holding on to the ball, has decided his pass before he even receives the ball?

3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

Nothing much except lower income, attracting lesser players than we are doing at the moment(if that is at all possible) , the prospect of being in that division for a couple of seasons etc. etc .etc.

[Sammy7nil]

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I agree Towell looked the part. de Gaffer can play football but does not have the pace for the SPL. Relegation will seriously harm Hibs as such we much spend a little to stay up

Probably about right, I thought De Ghost had his best game last night that was not difficult.

[joebakerforever]

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Three questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone agree with me that a 19 year old Celtic Reserve with 1 first team game to his credit looked sharper, fitter, hungrier and more football minded than the rest of our team? Real shame he blotted his copy book or else it would have been a strong debut.

2. Does anyone agree that De Graff, whilst of no use to us whatsoever, rarely misplaces a pass and whilst he has a Tigana-like allergy to holding on to the ball, has decided his pass before he even receives the ball?

3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

1. Apart from the error, he was ok, but Booth put in a better shift than any other Hibs player. I did appreciate he can throw a ball accurately and some distance which is more than any of the present team can do.

2. Still likely to be caught in possession and often looks to pass backwards rather than forwards. Still think he is too slow.

3. You're having a laugh. The fact that the gates will plummet and revenue will decline sharply and we might end up like Dundee in the mire for yonks ?

Get real.

[Gatecrasher]

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Three questions for discussion:

1. Does anyone agree with me that a 19 year old Celtic Reserve with 1 first team game to his credit looked sharper, fitter, hungrier and more football minded than the rest of our team? Real shame he blotted his copy book or else it would have been a strong debut.

I thought he played well, he ticked all of the qualities above and even put some of our 1st team players to shame - i will also say the same for Booth

2. Does anyone agree that De Graff, whilst of no use to us whatsoever, rarely misplaces a pass and whilst he has a Tigana-like allergy to holding on to the ball, has decided his pass before he even receives the ball?

De Graff looks lost a lot of the time, i dont think he is adjusting to the SPL at all. A shame IMO as he looked like a decent player, but its not working out.

3. Hibs like to finish in the bottom two places every ten years or so. Early 80's Early 90's, Late 90's and now early 10's. What does it matter if we get relegated? Seriously. What does it matter?

It matters for the managers budget if anything else, to keep what tv money coming in and allows us to keep the players we want to keep and may even get ones we couldnt get if we were to go down. Although being relegation was probably a good thing for us last time round

my opinions in bold above

[Green_one]

1. Fine he might be a good wee player but he confirmed my concerns by making a critical mistake. That is what happens when you are short of experience. At the end of the day he goes back to Celtic.
2. De Graff - waste of space - not geared for Scottish game. Has some signs of being a decent player in the past
3. Relegation is a killer and we were fortunate to get back up in a oner last time.

The fact that you are including 3 is an indication of all our thoughts.

[Houchy]

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Oh aye Celtic would really want/need Hart

That's what I was thinking

Celtic: if you want him, he's £100,000

Hibs: We'll give you £80,000 plus Hart

Celtic: £150,000 if you're wanting us to take Hart too.

[Speedway]

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1. Apart from the error, he was ok, but Booth put in a better shift than any other Hibs player. I did appreciate he can throw a ball accurately and some distance which is more than any of the present team can do.

2. Still likely to be caught in possession and often looks to pass backwards rather than forwards. Still think he is too slow.

3. You're having a laugh. The fact that the gates will plummet and revenue will decline sharply and we might end up like Dundee in the mire for yonks ?

Get real.

What happened to gates last time when a relegated side got replaced by an all conquering side, one division down?

[Wakeyhibee]

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What happened to gates last time when a relegated side got replaced by an all conquering side, one division down?

they went up !!
1998 - 1999 10220
1999 - 2000 12070
2000 - 2001 10793
2001 - 2002 11588

[Speedway]

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they went up !!
1998 - 1999 10220
1999 - 2000 12070
2000 - 2001 10793
2001 - 2002 11588

exactament.

people pay to watch a winning side and don't to watch a losing side.

Attendances would improve in division 1 if it was akin to last time.

[smurf]

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they went up !!
1998 - 1999 10220
1999 - 2000 12070
2000 - 2001 10793
2001 - 2002 11588

You've got that wrong.

We were in the First Division season 1998-1999.

Overall the average gate went down by around 2000.

This was in the main though down to the much reduced away support in the SFL.

The actual Hibs support stayed more or less the same.

Anyone thinking being relegated "Wouldn't matter" is mental.

Our finances would take a battering. Our credibility as a club even more so.

[smurf]

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Attendances would improve in division 1 if it was akin to last time.

Not true and no evidence to back this up.

Attendances at ER fell by around 30,000 season 1998-1999 in the SFL from 1997-1998 SPL.

Around 600K.

Look at the drop in our turnover the year 1998-1999 when out of the SPL.

[Speedway]

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You've got that wrong.

We were in the First Division season 1998-1999.

Overall the average gate went down by around 2000.

This was in the main though down to the much reduced away support in the SFL.

The actual Hibs support stayed more or less the same.

Anyone thinking being relegated "Wouldn't matter" is mental.

Our finances would take a battering. Our credibility as a club even more so.

Again, and I'm not at it here, what does it matter if your statement is correct?

[IFONLY]

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What happened to gates last time when a relegated side got replaced by an all conquering side, one division down?

We had a good team then Sauzee, Latapy,Mixu etc. We dont have anywhere near that quality now. IMO we have lost fans who will never return. Attendances might go up but revenue will go down, just like the last time.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

What does it matter? What, the fact that we are playing utter keech and rapidly heading for the 1st Div, and if we do get relegated whilst continuing to play to the poor standard we are we will not be returning to the SPL in a hurry?

Can you confirm that what you are saying is that this does not matter?

G

[Speedway]

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Not true and no evidence to back this up.

Attendances at ER fell by around 30,000 season 1998-1999 in the SFL from 1997-1998 SPL.

Around 600K.

Look at the drop in our turnover the year 1998-1999 when out of the SPL.

Hibs attendances or away fans?

[Speedway]

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What does it matter? What, the fact that we are playing utter keech and rapidly heading for the 1st Div, and if we do get relegated whilst continuing to play to the poor standard we are we will not be returning to the SPL in a hurry?

Can you confirm that what you are saying is that this does not matter?

G

If we go down, so what?

Seriously, so what?

[IFONLY]

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If we go down, so what?

Seriously, so what?

God loves a smart arse so they say, why not try being one somewhere else. Cant stand people who try to court controversy.

[superfurryhibby]

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What happened to gates last time when a relegated side got replaced by an all conquering side, one division down?

I have gazed into my crystal ball and it tells me that the fans will not buy into any great adventure nonsense this time around. It says that seasons ticket sales will plummet, as will revenue from Tv money, sponsorship, spl league placement cash and many more knock on effects.

Very optimistic/ naive view being taken here, don't believe it for moment

AS for De Graff-sorry seen nothing to suggest that he has what it takes to make a difference.

Towell played well enough and didn't look out of place, shame about gifting the goal and effectively the game. He had a mixed start.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

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If we go down, so what?

Seriously, so what?

Do you support Hibs?

I think most of us who support our team want to see them do as well as possible. Playing pish poor and failing at every hurdle is not a "so what" matter. At least not to fans...

G