League Reconstruction = Sell Out

**Isaac_Refvik** · 18-01-2011 10:39 AM

Once again we've wagged our tails, rolled over, and put up our paw when the Big laddies from the West tell us to. It is a disgrace. It is on their terms and the actual spectacle of watching a decent football match never even entered their thoughts. Neil Lancaster states that the larger 16 or 18 team leagues have been tried and they failed, with crowds dropping off in the late 60's and early 70's. What he doesn't mention is the crud we had to watch in the 80's, once people had got fed up playing the same team over and over again. An article in yesterdays paper described that the Turkish Superlig is flourishing with, historically, the top 4 clubs being deposed by a New Firm who have won the League for the past couple of years. There is plenty of money being splashed out on transfers and the quality of football is more than decent.
All this with an 18 team top league!!
You can dress it up any way you want but bottom line is you need to give the punters something worth leaving the house for. A 10 team league failed to do that before and I don't believe it will do it this time.

**Renfrew_Hibby** · 18-01-2011 11:07 AM

Did we not have our own New Firm win 3 or 4 titles in a 10 team set up???

I know it was over 25 years ago blah blah blah.

Really dont know where Scottish football is going. For me it seems that Rantic really want a 10 team set up and what the old firm want, the old firm get!

***greenlex*** · 18-01-2011 11:11 AM

Hibs V Partick will really get them punters rolling in.

**GreenCastle** · 18-01-2011 11:14 AM

Hibs playing St Mirren this season possibly 5 times is really exciting too

Playing Rangers and Celtic so many times widens the gap in the league.

If it was a once off game at home - we would have more chance of closing the gap and the stadium would be buzzing knowing we wouldn't see them at ER till a season later ( unless we got them in the cup).

Can't people get their heads round the fact that the league is BORING.

**bobbyhibs1983** · 18-01-2011 11:20 AM

i dont understand why the spl and the hairmen seem to think a 10team league will work,Just now 12 teams, i think most fans are sick as playing each other 3-4 times a season(i used to like playing heartz 4times a season but just now i hate playing them) but with a 10 team league am i right in thinking its gonna be teams playing more against one another?

Whats wrong with a 16-18 or dare i say it a 20team league?
with regards 20 league team you d get 36 games per season one game at home and one game away vs ONE TEAM.I reckon 3 down and 3 up from the 1st div.

**Big Frank** · 18-01-2011 11:20 AM

The country needs to waken up.

They want rid of Scottish football. They want to play in England, or any future European super league format.

Making Scottish Football ****ter and ****ter benefits the provincial glasgow Clubs.

The first thing Hibs and Hertz need to do is become friends at Boardroom level. Not suggesting for a minute they get as close to each other as the provincial glasgow 2, but those at the helm of the Capital clubs need to wisen up, and sharpish.

Over to you Bawbag Vlad. You need to start making friends.

**freddie m** · 18-01-2011 11:26 AM

As supporters we could always reignite the Stand Up and Be Counted slogan because as it stands we supporters are not being listened to. I am not just talking about Hibernian supporters but supporters of all clubs in the SPL.
Referees stood up not that long ago by withdrawing their labour from Scottish Football. As supporters we are in an even stronger position than anyone in Scottish Football can you imagine withdrawing your support for 1 or 2 games. This I believe is the only way that we can return control of our clubs back to the people that matter i.e. the supporters and the Community.

Glory glory

**CabbageFan** · 18-01-2011 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by freddie m

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As supporters we could always reignite the Stand Up and Be Counted slogan because as it stands we supporters are not being listened to. I am not just talking about Hibernian supporters but supporters of all clubs in the SPL.
Referees stood up not that long ago by withdrawing their labour from Scottish Football. As supporters we are in an even stronger position than anyone in Scottish Football can you imagine withdrawing your support for 1 or 2 games. This I believe is the only way that we can return control of our clubs back to the people that matter i.e. the supporters and the Community.

Glory glory

I strongly agree with this, we hold the key and staging a strike for a game or two and having completely empty stadiums across the country would certainly get their attention to what the supporters want.

***J-C*** · 18-01-2011 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by greenlex

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Hibs V Partick will really get them punters rolling in.

Why not?
I'd love to see a few more games against teams like Thistle/Dundee/Falkirk etc
Right now I'm very bored watching us play the same over and over, also these teams are just as well supported as Kille/St Mirren etc.

***superfurryhibby*** · 18-01-2011 11:46 AM

I am totally disgusted with the proposals. The fans, the lifeblood of Scottish football, don't want it. Do the SPL care, do they hell.

What I wonder is what would happen if the TV money disappeared? It seems to me that Scottish football managed without their cash for many a decade. It would mean that clubs would have to tailor their budgets to suit but life would go on.

A bigger league would offer more protection inherrently. There is very little to choose between the top six Division 1 and the bottom six SPl teams and a more level financial playing field would soon address that anyway.

I favour a sixteen team top league with a smaller second tier and third tiers. Thereafter I would suggest a regional pyramid system, with teams from the juniors and highland leagues playing for access to the third tier.

Revenues from lost game numbers could be made up from expanded league cup/alba cup ties.

I would also suggest a move to summer football. They say that none of the top leagues do this. Well frankly the Scottish league is not a top league.

Our game is hoplessly outdated. we have a ridiculous number of teams in the lower leagues with little or no ambition, who merely tread water. Give the ambitious , well supported non league sides a crack at them.

THose that say our game would become a backwater overlook the fact that that has already happened. With reduced TV revenues we would find a level and maybe we would see less reliance on the foriegn journeymen syndrome. This would open the door to young Scottish players.

**Sammy7nil** · 18-01-2011 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Isaac_Refvik

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Once again we've wagged our tails, rolled over, and put up our paw when the Big laddies from the West tell us to. It is a disgrace. It is on their terms and the actual spectacle of watching a decent football match never even entered their thoughts. Neil Lancaster states that the larger 16 or 18 team leagues have been tried and they failed, with crowds dropping off in the late 60's and early 70's. What he doesn't mention is the crud we had to watch in the 80's, once people had got fed up playing the same team over and over again. An article in yesterdays paper described that the Turkish Superlig is flourishing with, historically, the top 4 clubs being deposed by a New Firm who have won the League for the past couple of years. There is plenty of money being splashed out on transfers and the quality of football is more than decent.
All this with an 18 team top league!!
You can dress it up any way you want but bottom line is you need to give the punters something worth leaving the house for. A 10 team league failed to do that before and I don't believe it will do it this time.

Turkey has a population of 77 Million. We have 5 Million.

I was sick and tired of 1st Div when we were down there by the end I was praying for games to end as I bored senseless. An 18 team league means dire pointless meaningless games. In a 10 team league with two down and 4 Euro Places it may generate some interest.
If for example Hibs are bottom two with 4 games to go our 2 home games could have 15,000 fans If we were 13th in an 18 team league they would be 6,000. I am not saying it is great but it is beeter than we have.

**patlowe** · 18-01-2011 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by freddie m

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As supporters we could always reignite the Stand Up and Be Counted slogan because as it stands we supporters are not being listened to. I am not just talking about Hibernian supporters but supporters of all clubs in the SPL.
Referees stood up not that long ago by withdrawing their labour from Scottish Football. As supporters we are in an even stronger position than anyone in Scottish Football can you imagine withdrawing your support for 1 or 2 games. This I believe is the only way that we can return control of our clubs back to the people that matter i.e. the supporters and the Community.

Glory glory

The only fear I have with boycotting is that it risks driving the SPL further in their quest to hang on to SKY money but you're right, supporters need to let clubs know that they will not accept this. If people on here are reconsidering renewing their season ticket based on this decision (as I am) then let the club know that, if it becomes clear that the this move endangers the very core of our support then the club will be forced to act.

***allezsauzee*** · 18-01-2011 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by bobbyhibs1983

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i dont understand why the spl and the hairmen seem to think a 10team league will work,Just now 12 teams, i think most fans are sick as playing each other 3-4 times a season(i used to like playing heartz 4times a season but just now i hate playing them) but with a 10 team league am i right in thinking its gonna be teams playing more against one another?

Whats wrong with a 16-18 or dare i say it a 20team league?
with regards 20 league team you d get 36 games per season one game at home and one game away vs ONE TEAM.I reckon 3 down and 3 up from the 1st div.

We had a 18 team top divison before and we changed it because there were too many meaningless games. The chances are that half the division will have nothing to play for for a good 3/4 months of the season. Unless we maybe had teams in 3rd to 6th place in a play off for the 2 European places and maybe 2 automatic relegation places with play offs to decide a 3rd relegation place. However the real problem isn't the divisional set up, its the fact that non of our clubs can afford to pay the wages of decent players any more. I'm not sure that Hibs playing the likes of Queen of the South and Partick instead of an extra game against the Old firm will change that.

***J-C*** · 18-01-2011 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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Turkey has a population of 77 Million. We have 5 Million.

I was sick and tired of 1st Div when we were down there by the end I was praying for games to end as I bored senseless. An 18 team league means dire pointless meaningless games. In a 10 team league with two down at Euro Places it may generate some interest.
If for example Hibs are bottom two with 4 games to go our 2 home games could have 15,000 fans If we were 13th in an 18 team league they would be 6,000. I am not saying it is great but it is beeter than we have.

Not necessarily, look at the EPL this year....the bottom and top of the league has been the most exciting it has been in years.....any 1 of 5-6 teams could win and any of the bottom 8 could go down, now that's exciting.

**patlowe** · 18-01-2011 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

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With reduced TV revenues we would find a level and maybe we would see less reliance on the foriegn journeymen syndrome. This would open the door to young Scottish players.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say for ages, the suits are going about this from completely the wrong angle. Lets find our level and build interest again from the bottom, why cling on to SKY like a lost puppy? Sod them.

***Posh Swanny*** · 18-01-2011 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by greenlex

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Hibs V Partick will really get them punters rolling in.

Hibs V Partick: Hibs are just five points behind second placed Rangers and eight points behind Celtic at the top, with five games to go. Hibs are unbeaten in fourteen and recently won nine matches in a row. There is only one OF game left (at home to Celtic) and we have already beaten Rangers at home. The OF play each other tomorrow.

Fancy it?

**Sammy7nil** · 18-01-2011 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by JC50

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Not necessarily, look at the EPL this year....the bottom and top of the league has been the most exciting it has been in years.....any 1 of 5-6 teams could win and any of the bottom 8 could go down, now that's exciting.

For the 1st time in 25 years

This is so far form the norm it is scary. Also EPL has had Zillions pumped in to it you cant compare a gold bar with a potato. We are a Nation of 5 million we should have no more than 20 teams full stop. The crowds in the 2nd and 3rd are laughable you get bigger crowds at a School Cup Final.

**Sammy7nil** · 18-01-2011 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Posh Swanny

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Hibs V Partick: Hibs are just five points behind second placed Rangers and eight points behind Celtic at the top, with five games to go. Hibs are unbeaten in fourteen and recently won nine matches in a row. There is only one OF game left (at home to Celtic) and we have already beaten Rangers at home. The OF play each other tomorrow.

Fancy it?

Hibs beat Hearts 0 - 7 at Tynie on New Years day to move top of the league on goal differnce. Jimmy the No 2 Hibs striker scores his 23 goal of the season it could never happen ............... Hold on a minute.

Those days LONG GONE

***superfurryhibby*** · 18-01-2011 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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Turkey has a population of 77 Million. We have 5 Million.

I was sick and tired of 1st Div when we were down there by the end I was praying for games to end as I bored senseless. An 18 team league means dire pointless meaningless games. In a 10 team league with two down and 4 Euro Places it may generate some interest.
If for example Hibs are bottom two with 4 games to go our 2 home games could have 15,000 fans If we were 13th in an 18 team league they would be 6,000. I am not saying it is great but it is beeter than we have.

The ten club league means that teams will always be under pressure. There is no room for blooding youngsters and survival becomes the rasion d'etre. That is not good for the game either.

An expanded league it would allow more opportunity for building a team rather than a constant focusing on survival.

Attendences. We only had 13,500 at the Celtic game and that's being generous. The Tims brought 4,500 of those and from where I was sitting the Hibs crowd in the FFS and West stand was smaller than at any othr game this season. People are losing interest and I'm not sure that attracting big crowds for relegation struggles are very likely or very desirable anyway.

Let see how our attendences drop this season if we remain as pesh as we are.

**DAZ86** · 18-01-2011 12:01 PM

I the clubs get more funds then it may work out to be ok.

I would've liked a bigger league but more cash has to be the priority.

I like playing teams often while we are winning, as you all do. When we get beat we dread playing the bigger sides.

**Sammy7nil** · 18-01-2011 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by patlowe

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This is exactly what I've been trying to say for ages, the suits are going about this from completely the wrong angle. Lets find our level and build interest again from the bottom, why cling on to SKY like a lost puppy? Sod them.

Have you ever been to or viewed a League of Ireland game?

We are hoovering just above that now the thought of watching that DROSS played on tiny local pitches in front of 100's of fans does not appeal.

**Sammy7nil** · 18-01-2011 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

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The ten club league means that teams will always be under pressure. There is no room for blooding youngsters and survival becomes the rasion d'etre. That is not good for the game either.

An expanded league it would allow more opportunity for building a team rather than a constant focusing on survival.

Attendences. We only had 13,500 at the Celtic game and that's being generous. The Tims brought 4,500 of those and from where I was sitting the Hibs crowd in the FFS and West stand was smaller than at any othr game this season. People are losing interest and I'm not sure that attracting big crowds for relegation struggles are very likely or very desirable anyway.

Let see how our attendences drop this season if we remain as pesh as we are.

We have won 4 games in 12 Months if People were not losing interest they would be MORONS. If we were winning in a 10 team league crowds would increase simple. If we are in a relegation battle in the last 6 games the crowds will increase. There has to be a reason to go and that reason will never be 10th in a 16 team league.

***J-C*** · 18-01-2011 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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For the 1st time in 25 years

This is so far form the norm it is scary. Also EPL has had Zillions pumped in to it you cant compare a gold bar with a potato. We are a Nation of 5 million we should have no more than 20 teams full stop. The crowds in the 2nd and 3rd are laughable you get bigger crowds at a School Cup Final.

Hence the reason play offs for European places and relegation/promotion is also introduced to make it more exciting. Doncaster has spoken about a 14 team league but he says at the moment we don't have the money for it, so a 10 team league to him is the way forward for now.

So it seems like it's get as money as we can for the next few years( making sure the OF get the most ) let a wee drop trickle down to the rest to keep them happy, then if we can remember about it , we'll look at changing it to 14 teams at some point in time.

Sky have obviously had a lot of input here and it looks like the future of Scottish football has nothing to do with this. With 10 teams all the clubs outwith the OF will be making sure relegation isn't an issue, so youth policy will go out the window and experienced players will be a necessity. With 14 teams, younger players can be introduced occasionally, which can only benefit Scottish football.

***greenlex*** · 18-01-2011 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by JC50

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Not necessarily, look at the EPL this year....the bottom and top of the league has been the most exciting it has been in years.....any 1 of 5-6 teams could win and any of the bottom 8 could go down, now that's exciting.

And crowds are down.

***greenlex*** · 18-01-2011 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by JC50

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Why not?
I'd love to see a few more games against teams like Thistle/Dundee/Falkirk etc
Right now I'm very bored watching us play the same over and over, also these teams are just as well supported as Kille/St Mirren etc.

Remind me the crowd size against Ayr a couple if weeks ago with reduced pricing?
That's why not.

**~~down the slope~~** · 18-01-2011 12:12 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong but were we not relegated twice when we had a ten team league ?, i think Hearts went down for the first time in their history as well and now they want a more cutthroat league with the chance of one fifth of the ten going down. I heard Doncaster say that there would be more derbies for the fans to watch but what if say us and Aberdeen went down in the same year then that theory would be well ****ed. The whole exercise is an ill thought out bucket of gash and what's the odds that they will want a rise in season ticket money to watch it ?.

**happiehibbie** · 18-01-2011 12:16 PM

The way I see this is that given the situation we are in at the moment relegation candidates why would pettrie vote for a 10 team league. Does he know something we dont ?

For me it would be a 14 team league play each other twice at the moment whe SFA need to worry about the scottish cup crowds surley our top competition is lacking somwthing when we all decide we are not going to go

**Beefster** · 18-01-2011 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by JC50

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Why not?
I'd love to see a few more games against teams like Thistle/Dundee/Falkirk etc
Right now I'm very bored watching us play the same over and over, also these teams are just as well supported as Kille/St Mirren etc.

We attracted about 4,500 Hibs fans for a game against Ayr. Given that one or two thousand of those probably had the Top-Up, that means we attracted about 2,500-3000 walk up fans.

Originally Posted by Posh Swanny

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Hibs V Partick: Hibs are just five points behind second placed Rangers and eight points behind Celtic at the top, with five games to go. Hibs are unbeaten in fourteen and recently won nine matches in a row. There is only one OF game left (at home to Celtic) and we have already beaten Rangers at home. The OF play each other tomorrow.

Fancy it?

It was all going to plan too until those pesky Martians landed their spacecraft on the pitch during the Celtic game and shot half our team with their laser guns. Thankfully, Godzilla ate the Martians before they could shoot everyone though.

***superfurryhibby*** · 18-01-2011 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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We have won 4 games in 12 Months if People were not losing interest they would be MORONS. If we were winning in a 10 team league crowds would increase simple. If we are in a relegation battle in the last 6 games the crowds will increase. There has to be a reason to go and that reason will never be 10th in a 16 team league.

We are in a relagation battle now and crowds are falling. No, that kind of excitement doesn't appeal at all.

If we were winning..........well that's a big i