David Stephens - Where is he??

[Tollhouse Hibee]

After weeks and weeks of mince defending - where has this laddie gone. every time i have seen him play he has always looked capable.

i would rather play a youngster who may make a couple of mistakes, rather than a journeyman like hoggy any day of the week.

the youngster can only get better - hoggy will always be rank rotten.

[Glorious]

Agreed - I'm sure we got him on a 5 year deal if memory serves correctly and he looks more than capable. I really think he's one for the future so he should get his chance sooner or later.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

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Agreed - I'm sure we got him on a 5 year deal if memory serves correctly and he looks more than capable. I really think he's one for the future so he should get his chance sooner or later.

Your memory fails you , it was a 3 yr deal. He's just a young lad but imagine he will be used more next season.

[WindyMiller]

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After weeks and weeks of mince defending - where has this laddie gone. every time i have seen him play he has always looked capable.

i would rather play a youngster who may make a couple of mistakes, rather than a journeyman like hoggy any day of the week.

the youngster can only get better - hoggy will always be rank rotten.

Hanlon's a youngster. I wouldn't want to play 2 together.

[Ritchie]

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After weeks and weeks of mince defending - where has this laddie gone. every time i have seen him play he has always looked capable.

i would rather play a youngster who may make a couple of mistakes, rather than a journeyman like hoggy any day of the week.

the youngster can only get better - hoggy will always be rank rotten.

a journey man who's played for 2 clubs.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

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Hanlon's a youngster. I wouldn't want to play 2 together.

a youngster - but with a decent amount of experience under his belt now.

well lets play 3 at the back and get him and stephens playing.

[truehibernian]

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a youngster - but with a decent amount of experience under his belt now.

well lets play 3 at the back and get him and stephens playing.

Three at the back may very well be a good option for next season IMHO, however it would mean sourcing an energetic and pacy right wing back. Callum Booth could certainly fill the left wing back/mid slot as he has terrific energy levels and gets up and down the line no bother. You could argue that Wotherspoon could be the right wing back, however I do think David's best football comes from being a attacking midfielder.

The only downside of 3 at the back is that you tend to sacrifice real genuine width as there is the reliance on your wing backs having to concentrate hard on defensive duties too.

Definitely worth considering a 3-5-2 though as not many teams in the SPL play it and we have been crying out for a midfield that is combative and dominates possession.

Brown

Wotherspoon Stephens Dickoh Hanlon Booth

Zemmama Thicot/Murray Miller/Galbraith

Duffy/Byrne Riordan


From that side there is pace in the wide areas, players such as Miller, Zemmama and Galbraith aare interchangeable positionally, and it allows Derek to play up front. If we could get some real pace and power up top then all the better. I also think Thicot is in the same mould as Sol re physique and athleticism, and may be one to cultivate into a Murray type role (though not ideal). A Boozy type player would be just the ticket (with some height and dig too please).

[Craig_in_Prague]

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a youngster - but with a decent amount of experience under his belt now.

well lets play 3 at the back and get him and stephens playing.

nobody ever mentioned Fletcher being that young when he played for us.

If Hanlon, Stephens, Booth are good enough, they play. Simples.

Hogg is now experienced player, but I don't want him anywhere near the side. So age is not that important.

Stephens has a good height and build from what little i've seen of him...... So wouldn't mind seeing him sooner rather than later.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

not a bad option at all.

a couple of additions to that - ie a big striker who can hold up and head a ball like mixu did, and some genuine pace from somewhere would help.

i think also that would give us a decent bench and the ability to change it.

[Golden Bear]

Here we go again.

There seems to be a school of thought which says that if you're under 20 then you're far too young to be considered for first team duties?!

If you're good enough then you're old enough should be the policy and maybe it is.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Unless he is protecting him, maybe doesn't think he would cope with the pressure in a relegation battle. Managers usually turn to experience to dig them out of a mess as opposed to youth.

[PC Stamp]

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Three at the back may very well be a good option for next season IMHO, however it would mean sourcing an energetic and pacy right wing back. Callum Booth could certainly fill the left wing back/mid slot as he has terrific energy levels and gets up and down the line no bother. You could argue that Wotherspoon could be the right wing back, however I do think David's best football comes from being a attacking midfielder.
The only downside of 3 at the back is that you tend to sacrifice real genuine width as there is the reliance on your wing backs having to concentrate hard on defensive duties too.

Definitely worth considering a 3-5-2 though as not many teams in the SPL play it and we have been crying out for a midfield that is combative and dominates possession.

Brown

Wotherspoon Stephens Dickoh Hanlon Booth

Zemmama Thicot/Murray Miller/Galbraith

Duffy/Byrne Riordan


From that side there is pace in the wide areas, players such as Miller, Zemmama and Galbraith aare interchangeable positionally, and it allows Derek to play up front. If we could get some real pace and power up top then all the better. I also think Thicot is in the same mould as Sol re physique and athleticism, and may be one to cultivate into a Murray type role (though not ideal). A Boozy type player would be just the ticket (with some height and dig too please).

So did Steven Whittaker IMHO. I always felt Whitty looked better going forward than he did defensively but his pace and energy meant that he could do a more than sufficient job in defence whilst still using his attacking threat to great effect.

[truehibernian]

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Unless he is protecting him, maybe doesn't think he would cope with the pressure in a relegation battle. Managers usually turn to experience to dig them out of a mess as opposed to youth.

I would argue that with Brown, Murray, Miller, Riordan, Dickoh, Zemmama and Duffy there is experience in the side. It just so happens that some of the "experienced" players are not using it to any great effect on the pitch at present.

Booth is definitely good enough, as is Welsh (if fit) and Byrne. In the limited time we have seen David Stephens, he has proved that he has the hunger and ability to at least play a part at this level of football.......hasn't really been tested of course, but never looked out of his depth......even as a makeshift striker

[Andy74]

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Here we go again.

There seems to be a school of thought which says that if you're under 20 then you're far too young to be considered for first team duties?!

If you're good enough then you're old enough should be the policy and maybe it is.

On the contrary on here there seems to be this belief that if you are young then you should play as you must be either better than what we have or it doesn't matter because you are learning so let's get them in and make them better players by experience.

I prefer to think that if they are indeed better than what we have and are ready to play then they will play.

I don't get the clamour to play young guys just for the saek of it though as if it is somehow better to play with a team of young players.

Centre half is a difficult position and even Hanlon who has plenty games behingd him now still looks very raw there.

In any case I don't really think the Dickoh/Hanlon paternship is a big problem that we need to fix by chucking a young guy in there.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

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Here we go again.

There seems to be a school of thought which says that if you're under 20 then you're far too young to be considered for first team duties?!

If you're good enough then you're old enough should be the policy and maybe it is.

i honestly don't think he can be any worse than who is currently playing, hanlon excepted.

[Golden Bear]

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On the contrary on here there seems to be this belief that if you are young then you should play as you must be either better than what we have or it doesn't matter because you are learning so let's get them in and make them better players by experience.

I prefer to think that if they are indeed better than what we have and are ready to play then they will play. I don't get the clamour to play young guys just for the saek of it though as if it is somehow better to play with a team of young players.

Centre half is a difficult position and even Hanlon who has plenty games behingd him now still looks very raw there.

In any case I don't really think the Dickoh/Hanlon paternship is a big problem that we need to fix by chucking a young guy in there.

I'd agree with that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that our downturn in form started when the Club seemed to prefer signing soccer journeymen/mercenaries as opposed to promoting our own youngsters.

Or maybe it's an indication that our scouting structure is not as good as it once was ?

[Tollhouse Hibee]

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I'd agree with that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that our downturn in form started when the Club seemed to prefer signing soccer journeymen/mercenaries as opposed to promoting our own youngsters.

Or maybe it's an indication that our scouting structure is not as good as it once was ?

fair point - who have we signed in the last year that has turned out to be a great player??

[FitbaFolkKen]

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I would argue that with Brown, Murray, Miller, Riordan, Dickoh, Zemmama and Duffy there is experience in the side. It just so happens that some of the "experienced" players are not using it to any great effect on the pitch at present.

Booth is definitely good enough, as is Welsh (if fit) and Byrne. In the limited time we have seen David Stephens, he has proved that he has the hunger and ability to at least play a part at this level of football.......hasn't really been tested of course, but never looked out of his depth......even as a makeshift striker

I would tend to agree but playing Hanlon and Stephens together would be very young. You would tend to want to play an experienced centre half with a youngster so i can understand why he isn't getting a first team spot.

[jg1875]

seen him in asda a couple of weeks ago.

[Dr Jimmy]

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I'd agree with that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that our downturn in form started when the Club seemed to prefer signing soccer journeymen/mercenaries as opposed to promoting our own youngsters.

Or maybe it's an indication that our scouting structure is not as good as it once was ?

Couldn't agree more.
With regards to the youngsters though, I think we are seeing the effects on our youth "production line" of losing John Park to the great unwashed a few years ago.

[ahibby]

I guess CC has to cover many bases when he decides who goes on the bench. I don't think Stevens hasn't been included because of lack of ability just that there have been other considerations deemed to be more important. I rate the lad and thought he did a decent job up front when used there at the end of his last game I saw. One for the future and good cover for Dickoh or Hanlon. Thicot has more experience and so probably gets the call because of that (from CC) understandably. We have quite a big pool so some have to be left out. Also he isn't first choice for Wales under 21s. Either they are very good at that level or he still has parts of his game to improve on or something else for that matter. I am glad we have him never the less.

[RIP]

Are we impatient - probably

The reason whay the contracts are running down is that we DO still have plenty youngsters, who if bloodied gradually may make the grade.

Spoony and Hanlon are regulars. Booth is back with a view to taking part, probably as a sub at first. Welshie is getting fit again and Kurtis will likely make a few sub appearances before the end of the season. Thicot and Stevenson are still relatively young. Haggart and Stephens are in the squad as well.

Nine young guys. You wouldn't have them all in your team at once but next season - who knows. I think Rod and Yogi's plan was to phase out the journeymen eventually - hence the run down of contracts and a major reduction in the wage bill

That's why all these calls to 'Invest in the squad' will fall on deaf ears. We are going backwards financially and need to cut cost - rather than splash the cash.

I'm fine with that - it can take a new player a few months to fit into a team. Better to continue young player development

[ahibby]

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Are we impatient - probably




That's why all these calls to 'Invest in the squad' will fall on deaf ears. We are going backwards financially and need to cut cost - rather than splash the cash.

That's why all those calls to buy season tickets will fall on deaf ears. Works two ways.

[Andy74]

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That's why all those calls to buy season tickets will fall on deaf ears. Works two ways.

There's this strange thing going on in this thread again. A call to bring in young guys over 'journeymen' and still another call to invest more!

The Board invested again allright. From last Janaury, when we were third in the league, we signed, I think, 9 players.

Smith, Brown, Hart, Stephens, Gow, Dickoh, Grounds, Duffy, De Graaf and Trakys.

Is any player that's played for another team or two now a journeyman?

You could make an argument, forgetting current form for us, for each of those players being what we were looking for and a better pedigree than what we had.

What were Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Zemmama etc etc - they woukd probably be regarded as failure elsewhere or journeymen now.

What exactly do people expect that our accounts show that we can afford quality wise?? Take into account recent-ish signings such as Riordan, Miller and Stokes as well. None of them the right market either for us?

[blackpoolhibs]

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There's this strange thing going on in this thread again. A call to bring in young guys over 'journeymen' and still another call to invest more!

The Board invested again allright. From last Janaury, when we were third in the league, we signed, I think, 9 players.

Smith, Brown, Hart, Stephens, Gow, Dickoh, Grounds, Duffy, De Graaf and Trakys.

Is any player that's played for another team or two now a journeyman?

You could make an argument, forgetting current form for us, for each of those players being what we were looking for and a better pedigree than what we had.

What were Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Zemmama etc etc - they woukd probably be regarded as failure elsewhere or journeymen now.

What exactly do people expect that our accounts show that we can afford quality wise?? Take into account recent-ish signings such as Riordan, Miller and Stokes as well. None of them the right market either for us?

Anyone who says the managers have not been backed, is just ignoring these facts above. The only way imo anyone can have a go at petrie, is his and the other board of directors choice of managers.

[RIP]

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That's why all those calls to buy season tickets will fall on deaf ears. Works two ways.

So if we adopt a youth strategy you think Season Ticket holders won't renew? Can't see it myself. The reason I buy an ST is to support the club.

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There's this strange thing going on in this thread again. A call to bring in young guys over 'journeymen' and still another call to invest more!

The Board invested again allright. From last Janaury, when we were third in the league, we signed, I think, 9 players.

Smith, Brown, Hart, Stephens, Gow, Dickoh, Grounds, Duffy, De Graaf and Trakys.

Is any player that's played for another team or two now a journeyman?

You could make an argument, forgetting current form for us, for each of those players being what we were looking for and a better pedigree than what we had.

What were Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Zemmama etc etc - they woukd probably be regarded as failure elsewhere or journeymen now.

What exactly do people expect that our accounts show that we can afford quality wise?? Take into account recent-ish signings such as Riordan, Miller and Stokes as well. None of them the right market either for us?

Andy - what's your definition of a journeyman?

Mines is recruiting a player who has had loads of clubs, doesn't care that much about Hibs and won't bring a significant improvement to results. I wouldn't put Zemmama, Sproule or Stokes into that category.

But there's dozens of the 85 players we have had in the last 5 years that I would

[silverhibee]

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I'd agree with that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that our downturn in form started when the Club seemed to prefer signing soccer journeymen/mercenaries as opposed to promoting our own youngsters.

Or maybe it's an indication that our scouting structure is not as good as it once was ?

Do Hibs have a scouting system and who is it.

[silverhibee]

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Couldn't agree more.
With regards to the youngsters though, I think we are seeing the effects on our youth "production line" of losing John Park to the great unwashed a few years ago.

John Park and Donald Park have been a major loss from the youth set up at Hibs and are sadly missed now.

[ahibby]

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So if we adopt a youth strategy you think Season Ticket holders won't renew? Can't see it myself. The reason I buy an ST is to support the club.

Well that's your reason for buying a ST then. Many Hibs fans I know are asking the question why they bother and they have supported Hibs all their lives. A youth strategy has been adopted at ER for a very long time but if you think that putting five six or seven under 21 players in the first team every week is going to keep the fans coming then you are sadly. The fans don't want to see a youth team as the first team for the sake of it. Neither do the fans want to see an experienced side just for the sake of it. It doesn't matter what the team is made up of as long as it is entertaining and challenging at the right end of the table. I don't think a youth team would be and many would agree with me, certainly not in the SPL anyway.

[ahibby]

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John Park and Donald Park have been a major loss from the youth set up at Hibs and are sadly missed now.

Agree and I wonder how much better Wotherspoon, Hanlon et al would be if they had still been around. It's no coincidence that we raked in millions from the youth they brought through.