I t looks like Henry is going down the route of the rest of the muppets ,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9291848.stm
Do they never ever listen to what the fans want ?, if this goes ahead then that's it for me.
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Thread: Mcleish report
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16-12-2010 09:05 AM #1
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Mcleish report
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16-12-2010 09:14 AM #2This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Maybe the TV companies insist on four old firm and edinburgh derbies a season? or maybe the clubs rely on playing the old firm so many times? Maybe the likes of hibs and hearts said they would prefer the bigger games against each other and the old firm instead of playing the likes of Dundee, Partick and Dunfermline?
Whatever the reason, i hope they come out and are honest behind the reasons of going back to a 10 team league when its so unpopular but i won't be holding my breath.
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16-12-2010 09:19 AM #3
I was interested to hear, in a pre 6PM news advert that they would be reporting on ' what they would like to hear' in the second McLeish report. I thought it was a strange thing to say. They're one big happy Mafia family.
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16-12-2010 09:20 AM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
McLeish has done an extensive review into the game so to write his findings off because of a headline seems fairly short-sighted.
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16-12-2010 09:23 AM #5
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16-12-2010 09:26 AM #6This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 09:36 AM #7This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 09:37 AM #8
I'm Hibs Net illiterate. Could someone please start a poll on league reconstruction? That way we may have a more accurate representation of Hibs fans' feelings which we could then ask RP to represent!
Personally I loathe the idea of 10 teams & I believe chairmen, including RP, are over influenced by the thought of 3 home games against OF & yams.
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16-12-2010 09:39 AM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 09:40 AM #10This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
But saying that Scottish Football should be set up exactly how the fans want it is a bit like saying that governments should always bow to public pressure, which is patently nonsense.
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16-12-2010 09:41 AM #11
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A winter break = Good idea especially for the fans who will get to see more football when the days are longer and potentially warmer.
Regionalisation of the lower leagues = Surely makes great sense for the lower league clubs financially and more importantly for fans who wish to travel to games.
Reduction in Football Authorities = Can only be a good thing for the game with a reduction in bureaucracy and blazers running the game.
Playoffs and Relegation = The one up one down has often brought about a tedious end to the season for many fans if one club is cast adrift.
The crowds in Scottish football have been falling steadily for years and no doubt this is in correlation to what is IMO a product on the park that is getting worse by the season.
I don't understand why these suggestions would be the reason for fans turning their back on Scottish Football. And I can't believe for a minute that fans would be turning up in greater numbers watching a scottish league with 18/20 teams and where the bulk of teams find themselves in mid-table with little to play for by xmas.
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16-12-2010 09:42 AM #12
Personally, I think an SPL of two ten-team divisions without a late 'split' would be a major improvement, provided they have the guts to implement proper relegation/promotion rules.
I'd like to see play-offs involving at least 4 teams - top 2 of Div 2 and bottom 2 of Div 1, for example - so that there's a real possibility of movement up and down between divisions rather than just a cosmetic exercise of cutting the numbers in the SPL and calling everything by another name.
Two up, two down would be my choice, with financial protection for relegated teams and assistance for promoted teams. Same for those coming into SPL2 from the SFL. And spread the SPL TV money (such as it is) around a lot more fairly than at present.
IMO the problem in Scottish football is rooted in vested interests. The OF work away like stink to protect their hold on the trophies and the Champions' League. The mid-range SPL clubs (Hibs included) work away to make sure that their chances of relegation form the SPL are minimal. With only one up, one down relegation/promotion, this is relatively easy. But it also leaves a lot of well-run smaller clubs in the SFL with nowhere to go, so THEY work away to protect their 'senior' League status by keeping even better-run clubs in the Juniors out of the SFL...
Football's business, but it's also supposed to be a sport. It needs to open up the competition so that success on the field brings dividends, while at the same time introducing financial structures to prevent clubs running up huge debts and liabilities. IMO clubs who default on their financial obligations or fail to live within their means should face sanctions, and those sanctions should be applied in an even-handed, transparent manner. Not a case of one rule for the big teams and another for the wee ones.
Accounts should be in the League's hands at the end of the season. Failure to produce should mean relegation; repeated failure to produce should put the club's League place in serious question.
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16-12-2010 09:46 AM #13
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http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?1...reconstruction
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16-12-2010 09:47 AM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
As i said earlier in an ideal world i'd prefer to only play teams twice, however i just don't think it's an easy as a solution as some would believe.
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16-12-2010 09:55 AM #15This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 10:20 AM #16
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At the end of the day the whole set up is geared up to favour the Old Firm. 11-1 majority is needed to implement any change. If the OF dont like the plans they wont happen. Since when was a 7-5 split not a majority?? Until this changes the cluns outside the OF with get royally shafted.
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16-12-2010 11:04 AM #17
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Have to say I think the report is reasonable and pretty much spot on.
Ten team league means games which are more meaningful, better gate revenue and income, better TV and sponsorship deals and also means an easier reintroduction of reserve league.
Second tier have something worth aiming for too.
Winter shutdown is good in theory, but unless luck is on our side, Scottish winters can be anywhere from November to February as we have seen and witnessed over the years. Summer football, which I think is mentioned (or starting the season earlier) is a must.
Never usually agree with him, but Jim Traynor came out with a very good idea/proposal that teams in both leagues should have a minimum commitment to youth development and youth football. Without that commitment they don't participate.
The lower leagues being constructed geographically is also an excellent move, and means that our smaller clubs can survive a bit better and maybe means the inclusion of clubs like Spartans and Edinburgh City.
All in all I think McLeish puts some common sense into the report IMHO. Scottish football whether we like it or not, needs the Old Firm to survive. Harsh but very true at this present time (unless they form a Euro League)
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16-12-2010 11:55 AM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 11:59 AM #19
Currently, Hibs have six category A games per season. The board aren't going to vote for anything that reduces that to three, thereby missing out on roughly 20,000 people through the gates per year.
The other clubs have four category A games, and so have the same motivation. It's easy to blame it all on the OF but I'm sure this is an across the board decision of chairmen.
So far, I've only read one manager's comment that he's happy with a 10 team league, but the football aspect won't affect a financial decision.
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16-12-2010 12:02 PM #20
Are people genuinely going to turn their back on Hibs because of the make up of the league?
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16-12-2010 12:04 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Why is it more meaningful to play Dundee United 4 times than Dundee United twice and St Mirren twice?
IMO, the latter is more meaningful because you only get one shot at beating each team at each others grounds.
There's no doubt that there would be less money available from advertising and sponsorship, but if this was shared more equally then it wouldn't really affect the teams that would be more likely to find it an issue. Every team had to cut their cloth accordingly when we lost the last big TV deal so whats to stop every team doing the same for any new set up?
The original 10 team league was set up so that the big teams could get more money and it seems to me that the idea to revert back to this is once again based on money!
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16-12-2010 12:06 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I can't because I'm roped into a 3 year deal!
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16-12-2010 12:09 PM #23
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We have tried a ten team league and it did not work, why should it work now ?. The league has been tinkered with since the seventies and can anyone honestly say that the standard of football on offer has improved ?, it may have been gash when we had the old eighteen team league but there was less pressure in some games and you could afford to play your youngsters as the threat of relegation was obviously a lot lower. One of the reasons the league was changed was that the standard of some teams was pretty low but with the advent of modern coaching there is no such thing any more as we have witnessed with the likes of Ross County need i say more. Can you honestly say that we would feel confident on beating the likes of Dundee Dunfermline Partick ?, voting for this might ensure we are playing them in a couple of seasons anyway !.
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16-12-2010 12:16 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
As long as clubs think more of the tv money than they do they do of the paying customer then there isnt really much hope. The idiots in charge of the game in this country and the greed of the clubs is killing the game, and it's not even a slow death anymore.
a 16 team league would allow clubs being promoted to flourish and theoretically for the teams that now covet 3rd place the fact they only have to play the old firm twice should help narrow that gap.
lets get back to playing games at 3pm on a saturday afternoon, playing teams a sensible amount times per season, cut our cloth to suit and tell the old firm and the tv companies to blow it oot their @rse, and i bet the number of punters coming through the gates increases dramatically.
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16-12-2010 12:20 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
As for the financial advantages, whatever happened to the 14 team proposal with the top eight / bottom six split after two rounds of matches. That had all the means of preserving the benefits of an additional home OF fixture for the teams who finished in the top eight after 26 games.
Much prefer that concept. A league split is not ideal but the finances of the game in Scotland dictate that we need to have one.
The ten team league option will bore the pants of the paying punters, just as it did before. I detest the idea.
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16-12-2010 12:31 PM #26he recommends the merging of the SPL and Scottish Football League as a governing body
his other suggestions are an earlier start to the season and the regionalisation of the lower leagues.
A two-tier top flight with divisions of 10 would introduce a play-off system and spell the end for the current split, which sees the 12-team SPL divide in two for the final five fixtures.
Fans are bored, the crowds are dropping off and the only thing that they are saying for scotlands top league is more of the same please!
We are about to play Kilmarnock for the 3rd time this season and its no even Christmas yet
A Premier League of 14 teams which would be more in tune with what the fans and spectators have been asking for but which would run the risk of some serious financial difficulties and a reduction in the current financial distribution going to the clubs,"
100 pages long
We are committed to change and we believe now is the time to act for the sake of the game at all levels, from grassroots to elite performance.
that sums up my feelings, not impressed
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16-12-2010 12:37 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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16-12-2010 12:37 PM #28
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There are two ways you can think about change - customer-driven (which works) or process-driven (which normally fails).
I predict failure both to implement and to make any noticeable difference.
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16-12-2010 12:45 PM #29
I wonder what is more tedious.
A ten team league with all 10 teams with something to play for for 3/4s of the season, or a 18 team league with 8 or 10 teams seasons being regularly over by Christmas?
Maybe the grass is not always greener.
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16-12-2010 01:15 PM #30
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They could of course also have looked at ticket pricing and making football a far more affordable day out for all walks of life. A season ticket in Germany is a third sometimes of what we pay here, same in La Liga. Yes they have TV revenue streams way above ours, but their stadiums are packed to the rafters week in week out. Has to be something for looking at reducing ticket prices all across Scotland. Chicken and egg I suppose
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