English FA - Valid Concerns or Paranoid Dummy Spitting?

[Sylar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9256772.stm

Following the events of Thursday and the post-award autopsy, the acting chairman of the English FA has withdrawn his application for the permanent position, citing his distrust of FIFA officials as a key reason for doing so.

Is this a case of sour grapes, or does Roger Burden have a justifiable reason for doing so?

The incessant bating of FIFA which has been a campaign propagated by the English FA and English media has been described as a "stumbling block" in the success of the English 2018 bid by several members of the executive committee, who voted with their feet in the first round of Thursday's process.

Personally, I think this has been a very clever campaign by the English powers that be, despite it resulting in the probably loss of the World Cup to these shores. The expose of corruption in the corridors of power in Zurich created two potential outcomes for the English bid - it would either serve to force the hands of those executive members, pressuring them to alter their voting direction or vindicate the accusations of the investigation - or, it would give them an excuse to focus on, as soon as the results were announce, forcing a new campaign to execute an investigation into the heads of the most powerful footballing body on Earth.

There is polar divide appearing in opinion surrounding the outcome of the decision to award 2018 to Russia - there are those who feel that a series of kickbacks and corrupt purchasing of votes has lead to the first world cup in this region of the world. There are also those who felt the English bid, although technically excellent, with their array of facilities and infrastructure, was simply too accomplished, and not in need of a World Cup. Based on recent years, FIFA have a habit of awarding the competition to developing footballing countries (Germany aside). FIFA would claim that they attempt to use the arrival of a World Cup to a country to help develop the footballing image of that country - the masses of profits that they make from the 4-yearly competition is neither here nor there, as it is (in theory) reinvested into FIFA youth and development programmes and the provision of the best equipment and overarching officials who maintain the game and its integrity.

So is this the case in Russia, or does the acting head of the Football Association have a valid case? For me, the Panorama programme was less than conclusive - despite the hearsay and rumours, there was little validation given at any point, other than a list of names and numbers given, with no named source and no discussion as to further evidence.

However, does the case for corruption perhaps becomes a little more solidified when considering the award of the 2022 World Cup to the nation of Qatar? In a country with a population a little higher than that of Estonia, no existing footballing infrastructure, poor transport links and an extremely harsh summer climate, it begs the question what criteria has been used in the awarding of such a prestigious competition to such an unprepared nation, who presented such a technically void bid. The "legacy" of this world cup is going to leave several stadia within the country, with no remaining use once the World Cup crowds have come and gone. Preliminary discussions seem to suggest that the stadiums will be dismantled and award to other nations surrounding in the region - this seems a wholly unnecessary approach and will serve to create nothing other than a completely purpose built and featureless competition. Considering the competition facing Qatar, one must question what lead to the decision of the voting members to opt for such an unprepared and politically volatile region - the United States of America hosted a World Cup in recent living memory, as did both Japan and Korea - perhaps no real surprise that the latter 2 (even as sole bids) were not favourable outcomes. Consider though, the Australian and American bids for a moment - masses of good transport infrastructure and certainly in the case of the USA, many stadiums already prepared to host such a lucrative competition. I would expect that some form of investment would have been required to bring the Australian stadiums to a ready-state, though at nowhere near the significant investment which will be required in Qatar.

Which brings us back to the original question - is the decision of Roger Burden to walk away from his lofty position in the English footballing hierarchy validated by the refusal of FIFA to release any information regarding voting patterns - with such large amounts of money at stake to regions/countries, clarity must be key with the voting process and those who participate, to ensure a fairness is applied across the board - unless the process is made to be transparent, these accusations are not going to quickly evade Blatter et al - the decision to vote with his feet will leave Burden open to accusations of "spitting the dummy", but his concerns remain valid until proven otherwise.

[ScottB]

I think there is a bit of both at play here.

At the end of the day, who didn't think this was how the tournament bidding played out? The English themselves got done for handing out free Louis Vitton handbags after all, so they were hardly embarking on a holier than though campaign. So the question has to be asked, why weren't they doing the same deals that the other nations were?

But far more than that, I think most of FIFA has a distaste for England, particularly their constant 'footballs coming home, our fans love the game more than anyone else' stuff that they really need to stop, and of course the media campaign that has been taking shots at FIFA for the last year plus. People aren't likely to vote for you after you've spent a lot of effort telling the world they are corrupt. Quite what the BBC hoped to achieve with showing Panorama so close to the vote I have no idea, it was hardly going to change anything for the better, and has been suggested, had the vote been closer, it could be argued that that one show could have directly cost the country thousands of jobs and billions of pounds.


I doubt England will ever host the tournament as long as Blatter is in charge.

[Hibbyradge]

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I doubt England will ever host the tournament as long as Blatter is in charge.

I think you may be right.

Blatter is 74 now.

The next World Cup that England can bid for will be held in 2026, by which time, if he's spared, Sepp will be 90.

I doubt he'll still be the President of FIFA.

[ScottB]

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I think you may be right.

Blatter is 74 now.

The next World Cup that England can bid for will be held in 2026, by which time, if he's spared, Sepp will be 90.

I doubt he'll still be the President of FIFA.

I thought it was 2030 till they could bid again cause of the rules? Which will be the 100th anniversary of the tournament, some have suggested giving that one to Uruguay.

Indeed he should be gone, I think he's going next year actually, but hasn't he hand picked the Qatari guy to replace him? Might well see Blatter's views continue, and there's plenty other guys high up in FIFA and UEFA who would appear to have no great love for the English.

[Hibbyradge]

I'm pretty sure that the decision making process isn't transparent and that FIFA have their own agenda, but I don't think there is any particular anti-English bias.

On this occasion, FIFA may well have been irritated by Lord Whatshisname's allegations of corruption and the more recent Panorama allegations, but you must remember that Spain. Portugal, Holland and Belgium all lost out too.

Not to mention the USA, Australia, Japan and South Korea.

Russia and Qatar are huge markets for football. Money is at the heart of these decisions, imo.

[Gettin' Auld]

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I think there is a bit of both at play here.

At the end of the day, who didn't think this was how the tournament bidding played out? The English themselves got done for handing out free Louis Vitton handbags after all, so they were hardly embarking on a holier than though campaign. So the question has to be asked, why weren't they doing the same deals that the other nations were?

But far more than that, I think most of FIFA has a distaste for England, particularly their constant 'footballs coming home, our fans love the game more than anyone else' stuff that they really need to stop, and of course the media campaign that has been taking shots at FIFA for the last year plus. People aren't likely to vote for you after you've spent a lot of effort telling the world they are corrupt. Quite what the BBC hoped to achieve with showing Panorama so close to the vote I have no idea, it was hardly going to change anything for the better, and has been suggested, had the vote been closer, it could be argued that that one show could have directly cost the country thousands of jobs and billions of pounds.


I doubt England will ever host the tournament as long as Blatter is in charge.

Dunno about it annoying FIFA, but that sure gets on my wick!!

[lapsedhibee]

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I think most of FIFA has a distaste for England, particularly their constant 'footballs coming home, our fans love the game more than anyone else' stuff that they really need to stop

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Dunno about it annoying FIFA, but that sure gets on my wick!!

Beckham and his 'fitba's in our DNA' made me retch. And I don't really believe that he has much of a clue what DNA is.

[brog]

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I think there is a bit of both at play here.

At the end of the day, who didn't think this was how the tournament bidding played out? The English themselves got done for handing out free Louis Vitton handbags after all, so they were hardly embarking on a holier than though campaign. So the question has to be asked, why weren't they doing the same deals that the other nations were?

But far more than that, I think most of FIFA has a distaste for England, particularly their constant 'footballs coming home, our fans love the game more than anyone else' stuff that they really need to stop, and of course the media campaign that has been taking shots at FIFA for the last year plus. People aren't likely to vote for you after you've spent a lot of effort telling the world they are corrupt. Quite what the BBC hoped to achieve with showing Panorama so close to the vote I have no idea, it was hardly going to change anything for the better, and has been suggested, had the vote been closer, it could be argued that that one show could have directly cost the country thousands of jobs and billions of pounds.


I doubt England will ever host the tournament as long as Blatter is in charge.

Exactly right, oh & of course they wined & dined all the FIFA delegates, played friendlies in Egypt & Trinidad & were about to do so in Malaysia. In the commercial world that's regarded as bribery. Oh & they also did a deal with Soth Korea for 2022, which SK reneged on just like England reneged on their deal with Germany for 2006. The icing on the cake however was when they sent Prince William only 2 days after his Uncle Andrew was exposed as being a strong supporter of bribery & corruption!!
I'm sure FIFA, or some of the delegates are corrupt & the voting process is a joke, why are you allowed to vote for your own country when other countries, eg Belgium, Portugal & Australia are not even represented? However the hypocrisy of England in portraying themselves as whiter than white is sickening. I was broadly supportive of their bid but I enjoyed seeing the smug look wiped off Cameron's face for a while.

[Geo_1875]

They just can't understand why people don't love them as much as they do themselves. And as for handing out goody bags to the delegates. A big wedge of readies would have been more effective.

[greenginger]

Back in 2007 John Mcbeth won the election for the " Home Nations" position as one the Fifa vice presidents much to Englands annoyance as they wanted their own man on the inside to help their W. C. bid.

John Mcbeth jumps in with "two Feet" saying how he is going to fight corruption on FIFA and hints at his targets.

Jack Warner plays the race-card and receiving no support from other FIFA members Mcbeth is forced to resign allowing the England rep to get his position.

This just made Warner and Co. think themselves untouchable and continue with their corrupt dealings.
England reaped what they sowed when they failed to support John Mcbeth's efforts to clean up Fifa.

PS. I don't think he had a snowballs chance of succeeding but thats not the point.

[marinello59]

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They just can't understand why people don't love them as much as they do themselves. And as for handing out goody bags to the delegates. A big wedge of readies would have been more effective.

I think that comment would apply to virtually every nationality wouldn't it?

[discman]

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Back in 2007 John Mcbeth won the election for the " Home Nations" position as one the Fifa vice presidents much to Englands annoyance as they wanted their own man on the inside to help their W. C. bid.

John Mcbeth jumps in with "two Feet" saying how he is going to fight corruption on FIFA and hints at his targets.

Jack Warner plays the race-card and receiving no support from other FIFA members Mcbeth is forced to resign allowing the England rep to get his position.

This just made Warner and Co. think themselves untouchable and continue with their corrupt dealings.
England reaped what they sowed when they failed to support John Mcbeth's efforts to clean up Fifa.

PS. I don't think he had a snowballs chance of succeeding but thats not the point.

Paraphrased from Wikipedia:

Friendly between Trinadad and Tobago and Scotland at ER 30/5/2004 Warner wants the cheque for the match made out to him personally,Mcbeth says no Warner goes round other officials,they all say no.......that man has a long memory

Go check it out yourself,corrupt as they come

[Hibs90]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9256772.stm

Following the events of Thursday and the post-award autopsy, the acting chairman of the English FA has withdrawn his application for the permanent position, citing his distrust of FIFA officials as a key reason for doing so.

Is this a case of sour grapes, or does Roger Burden have a justifiable reason for doing so?

The incessant bating of FIFA which has been a campaign propagated by the English FA and English media has been described as a "stumbling block" in the success of the English 2018 bid by several members of the executive committee, who voted with their feet in the first round of Thursday's process.

Personally, I think this has been a very clever campaign by the English powers that be, despite it resulting in the probably loss of the World Cup to these shores. The expose of corruption in the corridors of power in Zurich created two potential outcomes for the English bid - it would either serve to force the hands of those executive members, pressuring them to alter their voting direction or vindicate the accusations of the investigation - or, it would give them an excuse to focus on, as soon as the results were announce, forcing a new campaign to execute an investigation into the heads of the most powerful footballing body on Earth.

There is polar divide appearing in opinion surrounding the outcome of the decision to award 2018 to Russia - there are those who feel that a series of kickbacks and corrupt purchasing of votes has lead to the first world cup in this region of the world. There are also those who felt the English bid, although technically excellent, with their array of facilities and infrastructure, was simply too accomplished, and not in need of a World Cup. Based on recent years, FIFA have a habit of awarding the competition to developing footballing countries (Germany aside). FIFA would claim that they attempt to use the arrival of a World Cup to a country to help develop the footballing image of that country - the masses of profits that they make from the 4-yearly competition is neither here nor there, as it is (in theory) reinvested into FIFA youth and development programmes and the provision of the best equipment and overarching officials who maintain the game and its integrity.

So is this the case in Russia, or does the acting head of the Football Association have a valid case? For me, the Panorama programme was less than conclusive - despite the hearsay and rumours, there was little validation given at any point, other than a list of names and numbers given, with no named source and no discussion as to further evidence.

However, does the case for corruption perhaps becomes a little more solidified when considering the award of the 2022 World Cup to the nation of Qatar? In a country with a population a little higher than that of Estonia, no existing footballing infrastructure, poor transport links and an extremely harsh summer climate, it begs the question what criteria has been used in the awarding of such a prestigious competition to such an unprepared nation, who presented such a technically void bid. The "legacy" of this world cup is going to leave several stadia within the country, with no remaining use once the World Cup crowds have come and gone. Preliminary discussions seem to suggest that the stadiums will be dismantled and award to other nations surrounding in the region - this seems a wholly unnecessary approach and will serve to create nothing other than a completely purpose built and featureless competition. Considering the competition facing Qatar, one must question what lead to the decision of the voting members to opt for such an unprepared and politically volatile region - the United States of America hosted a World Cup in recent living memory, as did both Japan and Korea - perhaps no real surprise that the latter 2 (even as sole bids) were not favourable outcomes. Consider though, the Australian and American bids for a moment - masses of good transport infrastructure and certainly in the case of the USA, many stadiums already prepared to host such a lucrative competition. I would expect that some form of investment would have been required to bring the Australian stadiums to a ready-state, though at nowhere near the significant investment which will be required in Qatar.

Which brings us back to the original question - is the decision of Roger Burden to walk away from his lofty position in the English footballing hierarchy validated by the refusal of FIFA to release any information regarding voting patterns - with such large amounts of money at stake to regions/countries, clarity must be key with the voting process and those who participate, to ensure a fairness is applied across the board - unless the process is made to be transparent, these accusations are not going to quickly evade Blatter et al - the decision to vote with his feet will leave Burden open to accusations of "spitting the dummy", but his concerns remain valid until proven otherwise.

tl;dr

[Part/Time Supporter]

My view of Panorama is that it was scheduled for months in advance. They wanted to run a "FIFA corruption" story in the week of the World Cup decision and scrounged up whatever old stories they could put together (a bit like the Iraq WMD dossiers!), rather than actually investigating something on an ongoing basis and then breaking the story whenever something significant was found (as the Sunday Times did).

I think the FA are trying to create a "heads we win, tails you lose" scenario, but I don't think anyone outside England is listening really. The threats to break away from FIFA are laughable. The Home Nations already did that before the War, which is why none of them were involved before 1950.

[basehibby]

I think the concerns are valid - the success of the Russia bid is one thing as they are a major football nation who have never hosted the tournament and undoubtably have the resources to put on a decent WC.
But the success of the Quatar bid is something else altogether - on the face of it they have absolutely no right to be jumping the queue on other more worthy nations and you've got to suspect that palms have been heavilly greased with the proceeds from high grade petroleum.
The Quatar bid of course puts the whole FIFA set up under suspicion and, given Russia's reputation as a state fueled by gangsterism and corruption, also makes the success of their bid seem a lot more suspicious than it would in isolation.

[basehibby]

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My view of Panorama is that it was scheduled for months in advance. They wanted to run a "FIFA corruption" story in the week of the World Cup decision and scrounged up whatever old stories they could put together (a bit like the Iraq WMD dossiers!), rather than actually investigating something on an ongoing basis and then breaking the story whenever something significant was found (as the Sunday Times did).

I think the FA are trying to create a "heads we win, tails you lose" scenario, but I don't think anyone outside England is listening really. The threats to break away from FIFA are laughable. The Home Nations already did that before the War, which is why none of them were involved before 1950.

It seems to me that the Panorama program was scheduled specifically for the self agrandisement of TV executives who could then gloat over bigger ratings. I don't think there's a shred of nobility in the decision to air the program when they did - the story of corruption in FIFA was already years old and the program schedulers should hang their heads in shame at their selfishness.

If it had been a Scottish bid which had been sabotaged in this way I would be outside the BBC right now demanding their heads on a platter.

[Sylar]

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tl;dr

Sorry, you've lost me...

[Dashing Bob S]

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It seems to me that the Panorama program was scheduled specifically for the self agrandisement of TV executives who could then gloat over bigger ratings. I don't think there's a shred of nobility in the decision to air the program when they did - the story of corruption in FIFA was already years old and the program schedulers should hang their heads in shame at their selfishness.

If it had been a Scottish bid which had been sabotaged in this way I would be outside the BBC right now demanding their heads on a platter.

Or even a blatter.

[magpie1892]

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Paraphrased from Wikipedia:

Friendly between Trinadad and Tobago and Scotland at ER 30/5/2004 Warner wants the cheque for the match made out to him personally,Mcbeth says no Warner goes round other officials,they all say no.......that man has a long memory

Go check it out yourself,corrupt as they come

I was at that game in the posh seats. After the game in the lounge I was talking to a communications lassie from the SFA who was not a minion by any means but nowhere near senior enough to have access to the SFA match fee chequebook.

Warner comes up, interrupts her and asks her about the match fee. She replies 'you'll need to speak to David [Taylor] about that.' Warner replies: 'I've already asked him.'

Lol.

The SFA lassie was the third of four people that night he asked about the match fee. In two of these approaches he asked for the cheque to be made out to him personally.

I'm English, but really, more fool Willie, Cameron and Beckham for trusting a racist, duplicitous thief with decades of form and a hatred of England/white people.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I was at that game in the posh seats. After the game in the lounge I was talking to a communications lassie from the SFA who was not a minion by any means but nowhere near senior enough to have access to the SFA match fee chequebook.

Warner comes up, interrupts her and asks her about the match fee. She replies 'you'll need to speak to David [Taylor] about that.' Warner replies: 'I've already asked him.'

Lol.

The SFA lassie was the third of four people that night he asked about the match fee. In two of these approaches he asked for the cheque to be made out to him personally.

I'm English, but really, more fool Willie, Cameron and Beckham for trusting a racist, duplicitous thief with decades of form and a hatred of England/white people.

As George W Bush tried to say: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

[Sioux]

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.

Russia and Qatar are huge markets for football. Money is at the heart of these decisions, imo.

Sorry but how does Qatar equate to a huge market? It's population is substantially less than greater Manchester.

It is an utter nonsense for anyone who voted for Qatar to suggest that it offers anything at all.

Surely a world cup should be awarded to a nation's football supporting people not a just a bunch of overwealthy families who rule a very small nation.

It is unlikely that Qatar's football association is of greater significance that the SJFA! Sorry, I think this a disgraceful corrupt decision.

[magpie1892]

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As George W Bush tried to say: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

Indeed.

[nonshinyfinish]

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I think that comment would apply to virtually every nationality wouldn't it?

[nonshinyfinish]

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Sorry, you've lost me...

Abbreviation of 'too long, didn't read.' It's an internet thing.

[magpie1892]

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Sorry but how does Qatar equate to a huge market? It's population is substantially less than greater Manchester.

It is an utter nonsense for anyone who voted for Qatar to suggest that it offers anything at all.

Surely a world cup should be awarded to a nation's football supporting people not a just a bunch of overwealthy families who rule a very small nation.

It is unlikely that Qatar's football association is of greater significance that the SJFA! Sorry, I think this a disgraceful corrupt decision.

Qatar has a population of 1.7m. Of that figure, about 300,000 are Qatari, smaller than the population of Auld Reekie. The rest are European/US/Oz, etc. expats, Filipino service and shop staff and then a million guys from the Indian subcontinent, more or less indentured, who build the roads, the skyscrapers and will build the stadiums for 2022, etc., for about GBP1.30/hour.

So in the case of 2022, FIFA is doing its bit for the furtherance of slave labour.

Good work.

[discman]

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Sorry but how does Qatar equate to a huge market? It's population is substantially less than greater Manchester.

It is an utter nonsense for anyone who voted for Qatar to suggest that it offers anything at all.

Surely a world cup should be awarded to a nation's football supporting people not a just a bunch of overwealthy families who rule a very small nation.

It is unlikely that Qatar's football association is of greater significance that the SJFA! Sorry, I think this a disgraceful corrupt decision.

Thats family singular,been at it since 1971,Mr &Mrs Al Thani

Oh and I agree, on all points

[Sylar]

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Abbreviation of 'too long, didn't read.' It's an internet thing.

I suspected it would be something as childish as that - cheers.

[Kaiser1962]

My tuppence worth is that for all those who have come out in the media claiming they either knew or were told that Russia had won the nomination, hinting at corruption, vote rigging and fixing, then no-one told Vladimir Putin. I would have thought that Putin, as a former head of the KGB, would, more than anybody, have had an inside line on what was happening if indeed this was the set-up some would have you believe. As soon as he found out he was basically on the first plane to Zurich when only the day before he was getting his excuses in first , basically the same as England are doing now, and claiming that Russia itself was the victim of the stitch up.
I am actually disappointed that England didn't get it but can see the reasons that they gave it to Russia

Of course it could all be a smoke screen of deniability and double bluff.....

[Cropley10]

FIFA is now exposed as being totally corrupt and unaccountable. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, apparently.

Russia deserve a World Cup, so does England, Qatar doesn't - not in any lifetime, IMHO. But the fact that Australia were ignored, is a travesty.

FIFA need to be overhauled the way the IOC have been.

Personally I think Scotland should bid for the World Cup, with England - even Wales. It was this island, these British Isles that started football, not China FFS. Britain would put on a mega World Cup, with such rich history, and great stadia.

[whiskyhibby]

Vaild concerns........Yes...............FIFA Makes the Mafia look like amateurs


However its a pity that they only seemed to have these concerns after the vote went against them , so they got what they deserved Sweet F.A.