Tom English on Levein & Fletcher

[johnrebus]

Good piece in the Scotsman about Potter and his petty immature ways........,

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/T...ust.6628672.jp

[Owain_1987]

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Good piece in the Scotsman about Potter and his petty immature ways........,

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/T...ust.6628672.jp

The Scotsman is a Hippy paper and why do they talk such *****e etc etc Yams really are silly creatures. They say Fletcher as never played for a big club, what like the Hearts who get 400,000 every game.

[Arch Stanton]

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Good piece in the Scotsman about Potter and his petty immature ways........,

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/T...ust.6628672.jp

Any article that full of bald assertions is not a good article IMO - while such comments may be expected on fans forums I'd expect better from a national newspaper (in my defense I only subscribe to it for the crossword).

Scotland doesn't have any proven international strikers that I can see and someone who needs the ball to come nicely to his left foot most certainly doesn't fit the bill.

[BryanV]

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Any article that full of bald assertions is not a good article IMO - while such comments may be expected on fans forums I'd expect better from a national newspaper (in my defense I only subscribe to it for the crossword).

Scotland doesn't have any proven international strikers that I can see and someone who needs the ball to come nicely to his left foot most certainly doesn't fit the bill.

What assertions have you taken issue with? Genuine question, I have been unable to access it. Who would be ahead of him in the pecking order?

[johnrebus]

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Any article that full of bald assertions is not a good article IMO - while such comments may be expected on fans forums I'd expect better from a national newspaper (in my defense I only subscribe to it for the crossword).

Scotland doesn't have any proven international strikers that I can see and someone who needs the ball to come nicely to his left foot most certainly doesn't fit the bill.

So what exactly would you expect a national newspaper to say?

And which national newspaper should we all be reading?


All this ridiculous snobbery regarding whichever newspaper someone reads is a royal pain in the arse to be frank.

[Arch Stanton]

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So what exactly would you expect a national newspaper to say?

And which national newspaper should we all be reading?


All this ridiculous snobbery regarding whichever newspaper someone reads is a royal pain in the arse to be frank.

I didn't say I never read it, nor did I say no-one else should, I merely wished it's reporting was better (eg less Tory bias, stuff like that). I fail to see where there was any snobbery, ridiculous or not.

[hibsbollah]

Its an excellent article.

i dont see any 'bald assertions', just a lot of facts about how many games selected players have played and how that contradicts Leveins statements on the subject. This is the opposite of a bald assertion.

[Arch Stanton]

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What assertions have you taken issue with? Genuine question, I have been unable to access it. Who would be ahead of him in the pecking order?

I could quote the whole article really but a couple of quotes from the first page give you the gist.

"the press and the public have talked-up the players while the national team manager has talked them back down again." - When?

"McLeish's upbeat manner proved infectious. The players responded to it brilliantly." - McLeish was a hugely successful manager then?

He then goes on a big rant trying to 'prove' that Fletcher was left out because of his 'comments' while also saying that "Nobody is saying that Fletcher is the complete answer to Scotland's prayers in front of goal, but he is a very promising player."

Even if he thinks Fletcher is a "very" promising player, last night's game shows that there are a fair few others out there. I would agree that if Fletcher develops further then he will become a useful internationalist - but again that also applies to a fair few others.

[BryanV]

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"the press and the public have talked-up the players while the national team manager has talked them back down again." - When?

"At this minute in time, Steven Fletcher hasn't put in a performance which makes me think I can hang my hat on him."

That sounds to me like a player being talked down.

"McLeish's upbeat manner proved infectious. The players responded to it brilliantly." - McLeish was a hugely successful manager then?

I think in Scotland terms Mcleish was a successful manager and I think a large part of that was down to his man management.

He then goes on a big rant trying to 'prove' that Fletcher was left out because of his 'comments' while also saying that "Nobody is saying that Fletcher is the complete answer to Scotland's prayers in front of goal, but he is a very promising player."Even if he thinks Fletcher is a "very" promising player, last night's game shows that there are a fair few others out there.

What strikers that featured last night would you consider to be as promising as Fletcher?
.

Levein is a very petty man, his exile of Fletcher is in marked contrast to his waving back in of the offending huns. For the record, although I was astounded that he did not feature, I felt that Steven Fletcher was wrong to speak out so soon.

[ScottB]

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I didn't say I never read it, nor did I say no-one else should, I merely wished it's reporting was better (eg less Tory bias, stuff like that). I fail to see where there was any snobbery, ridiculous or not.

Must have missed that! It's only slightly less pro Labour / Anti SNP than the Record for me!

So is this The Scotsman retreating behind a paywall as well? Can't say I'd be tempted to pay to read it!

[Arch Stanton]

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Levein is a very petty man, his exile of Fletcher is in marked contrast to his waving back in of the offending huns. For the record, although I was astounded that he did not feature, I felt that Steven Fletcher was wrong to speak out so soon.

Oh for pete's sake - Fletcher isn't in exile - he got left out of a friendly against the Faroes!!

And alright, as it happened the promise actually showed up in midfield but giving those players a chance will do Scotland no harm in the future - that's what friendlies are all about.

And, contrary to what people on here think, Levein is far from stupid - if Fletcher is the best available and fits in with the formation he needs then he will get picked.

[BryanV]

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Oh for pete's sake - Fletcher isn't in exile - he got left out of a friendly against the Faroes!!

And alright, as it happened the promise actually showed up in midfield but giving those players a chance will do Scotland no harm in the future - that's what friendlies are all about.

And, contrary to what people on here think, Levein is far from stupid - if Fletcher is the best available and fits in with the formation he needs then he will get picked.

Aye, Levein is not only not stupid, but infallible. He picks the best players for the required formation for any given game, e.g. against the Czech Republic. Fletcher has not featured in the last five games. Sorry about not picking up your point about the midfielders, but I am sure you will agree it was a bit of a non sequiter. No need for the striker Fletcher due to an abundance of promising midfielders....

[Mikeystewart]

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The Scotsman is a Hippy paper and why do they talk such *****e etc etc Yams really are silly creatures. They say Fletcher as never played for a big club, what like the Hearts who get 400,000 every game.

He hasn't really, unless you count wolves as a big club, what's it got to do with hearts?

[Mikeystewart]

For some to suggest Levine doesn't pick certain players because of the colour of strip they used to wear is .. well ... I cant think of an adequate superlative of STUPID.

[Mikeystewart]

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Oh for pete's sake - Fletcher isn't in exile - he got left out of a friendly against the Faroes!!

And alright, as it happened the promise actually showed up in midfield but giving those players a chance will do Scotland no harm in the future - that's what friendlies are all about.

And, contrary to what people on here think, Levein is far from stupid - if Fletcher is the best available and fits in with the formation he needs then he will get picked.

[BryanV]

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For some to suggest Levine doesn't pick certain players because of the colour of strip they used to wear is .. well ... I cant think of an adequate superlative of STUPID.

No one on this thread has suggested that. Oh, and there is only one superlative of stupid and that is stupidest.

[Mikeystewart]

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No one on this thread has suggested that. Oh, and there is only one superlative of stupid and that is stupidest.

Sorry didn't mean to say this thread, but others on this site and on the comments page of article. And maybe superlative was the wrong word, I couldn't think of a word to describe how stupid it would be to think that, because stupid seemed too tame, if that makes sense. My English is not so good.

[johnrebus]

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For some to suggest Levine doesn't pick certain players because of the colour of strip they used to wear is .. well ... I cant think of an adequate superlative of STUPID.

And what about Potter not picking a certain player because of the colour of the strip he wears at the moment?

Ach, well. I guess I'll just have to live with being STUPID........,

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

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For some to suggest Levine doesn't pick certain players because of the colour of strip they used to wear is .. well ... I cant think of an adequate superlative of STUPID.

Well you get club managers that don't pick players based on nothing more than the fact that they don't really fancy them. Especially when a new manager comes in. Well known that at club level, Sir Alf Ramsey had no time for Scottish players...an opinion that was not really founded on sense.

[hibsboy90]

Anyone able to quote the full article?

[Mikeystewart]

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And what about Potter not picking a certain player because of the colour of the strip he wears at the moment?

Ach, well. I guess I'll just have to live with being STUPID........,

Riordan not getting in the Scotland squad has nothing to do with Derek being a hibs fan and Levine being a Jambo.

Assuming that's who you where referring to.

[Mikeystewart]

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Well you get club managers that don't pick players based on nothing more than the fact that they don't really fancy them. Especially when a new manager comes in. Well known that at club level, Sir Alf Ramsey had no time for Scottish players...an opinion that was not really founded on sense.

Yes, well 50 years ago you could pass back to the keeper. So I don't think that has anything to do with it. I don't even think its to do with Riordan personally.

I think its because.

-He has had a couple of bench appearances for the international team and he has done, well.. nothing.

-He doesnt hold the ball up,

-He has no pace

-He has little strength and manoeuvrability compared to other players

-He cant win a Header

-He cant tackle.

Though he can however:

-Finish with either foot from short or long range.

-Pick out a pass as well as anyone in the world.

-Put in the odd good cross.


I think the negatives outweigh the positives considering Levine has, miller naismith fletcher mcfadden Goodwillie all in front of him, i would only say kyle cause he's a bully upfront and can win a header, but il probs get hunted down on this forum for suggesting he should be in the team over deek. I dont think there is anything that deek gives that we dont already have in the squad.

[johnrebus]

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Yes, well 50 years ago you could pass back to the keeper. So I don't think that has anything to do with it. I don't even think its to do with Riordan personally.

I think its because.

-He has had a couple of bench appearances for the international team and he has done, well.. nothing.

-He doesnt hold the ball up,

-He has no pace

-He has little strength and manoeuvrability compared to other players

-He cant win a Header

-He cant tackle.

Though he can however:

-Finish with either foot from short or long range.

-Pick out a pass as well as anyone in the world.

-Put in the odd good cross.


I think the negatives outweigh the positives considering Levine has, miller naismith fletcher mcfadden Goodwillie all in front of him, i would only say kyle cause he's a bully upfront and can win a header, but il probs get hunted down on this forum for suggesting he should be in the team over deek. I dont think there is anything that deek gives that we dont already have in the squad.

Sniff, sniff......,

Hmmmmmm.

[broonie27]

I'm more amazed at the fact so many people have paid subscriptions to the Scotsman that allow them to read the article in the first place.

[brog]

Levein has made a huge amount of contradictory statements in his brief tenure as Manager. As people have pointed out here Danny Wilson has made 1 appearance for Liverpool only, a home defeat to Northampton! Jamie Mackie, whose attitude I like as a player, has not scored for QPR since he was originally selected for the infamous 4-6-0 game, the curse of Harry Potter!!
I have no problem with HP leaving Fletcher out against the Faroes, I do have a problem with him not even having him on the bench against Czech. For those who decry Fletcher, can they explain why his value doubled in one season in the Premiership & does anyone seriously think an English team would pay £7million for Naismith, Miller, Goodwillie or Kyle ! I'm amazed at the amount of people who still take time to come on this board & put down one of the finest talents we've produced in the last 20 years.
PS, was KK injured? If not then why did Goodwillie come on rather than him, was KK not an original choice?
PPS 2 words that put HP's opinion of a player into perspective, Gary Kenneth!!

[Mikeystewart]

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Levein has made a huge amount of contradictory statements in his brief tenure as Manager. As people have pointed out here Danny Wilson has made 1 appearance for Liverpool only, a home defeat to Northampton! Jamie Mackie, whose attitude I like as a player, has not scored for QPR since he was originally selected for the infamous 4-6-0 game, the curse of Harry Potter!!
I have no problem with HP leaving Fletcher out against the Faroes, I do have a problem with him not even having him on the bench against Czech. For those who decry Fletcher, can they explain why his value doubled in one season in the Premiership & does anyone seriously think an English team would pay £7million for Naismith, Miller, Goodwillie or Kyle ! I'm amazed at the amount of people who still take time to come on this board & put down one of the finest talents we've produced in the last 20 years.
PS, was KK injured? If not then why did Goodwillie come on rather than him, was KK not an original choice?
PPS 2 words that put HP's opinion of a player into perspective, Gary Kenneth!!

I beleive naismith could leave rangers for about 3ml to go down south, his value would likely double if he did well depending on the club. I think its a possibility for Naismith and Goodwillie, maybe not miller and kyle

Hense why fletcher is valued at 7ml but if he was still at hibs probs only about 4 its not about how good he is, it is about how much he is worth to that club and how much it will take convince that club to let him go. it not all to do with ability

[Broken Gnome]

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Levein has made a huge amount of contradictory statements in his brief tenure as Manager. As people have pointed out here Danny Wilson has made 1 appearance for Liverpool only, a home defeat to Northampton! Jamie Mackie, whose attitude I like as a player, has not scored for QPR since he was originally selected for the infamous 4-6-0 game, the curse of Harry Potter!!
I have no problem with HP leaving Fletcher out against the Faroes, I do have a problem with him not even having him on the bench against Czech.

That's the overriding thing here, regardless of whether any thinks Fletcher is Premiership quality, £7m quality or anything else. I'd even go as far as saying it IS a problem he's not in the squad for the Faroes; if it's not based on disciplinary reasons, then he's in limbo where he's not trusted with competitive games and not given a chance in friendlies. He's never been given the chance to prove himself when he's clearly first in line to Kenny Miller's place. Levein can't say he 'can't hang his hat on him', because he's featured nowhere near enough to deserve that claim. Is Jamie Mackie ahead of him in the queue now on the basis he's been given a chance and scored (against the Faroes from one yard)? If so, it's possibly the most unfair bit of management I've ever known.

[Bad Martini]

I'd like Levein to give us 2 good reasons, or even 1, why one of Scotlands best, prolific and downright natural goal-scorers is not in the squad, let alone the team. That's before we count his skill with the dead ball (which Robson proved genius with over 2 games, missing freekicks into double figures).

That'll cover Deek's exclusion which is far more criminal than Fletchers' exclusion.

Yammy Potter can ram it. I'll still follow Scotland but he is a bawbag, pure and simple.

That said, I'd possibly have Fletcher in the squad too. I'd certainly have Deek in there tho.

[hughio]

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I'm more amazed at the fact so many people have paid subscriptions to the Scotsman that allow them to read the article in the first place.

They don't pay.

Its free.

[Arch Stanton]

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They don't pay.

Its free.

It's free to see the first few lines of each page in actual fact. If you're anything like me though that is plenty sufficient.